Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

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capitaineflam25
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Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by capitaineflam25 »

When i'm focused on flying it's difficult for me to figure whats my battery status when i quickly read 11,37V (that mean 40% left on my 3S battery)

The idea would be to allow voltage conversion to percentage with a built in abacus like this one:

Image

When setting percentage display mode you could choose the element number (1S, 2S, ..., 6S) so the firmware could do the conversion on the fly.

Anyone would find an interest in that suggestion ?

I would like to help for that but i'm not able to code in C :?

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Rob Thomson »

I like this idea!

it would be useful too in the frsky display for receiver voltage!
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by ReSt »

But you have to take care of the different battery types (NiCad,NiMH,Li, 2cells, 3 cells)

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by jhsa »

That would have to be an option one could choose.. I personaly prefer the voltage..
Also in some batteries the voltage drop really fast at the end.. so it will go, say, from 40% down to 10% in a short period of time.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by capitaineflam25 »

You're right the discharge curve would change depending on the type of battery, to made it generic i have a suggestion: why not using one of a curve already available for every model (lets say curve 16) so everyone can tune his own discharge curve to fits its battery type.

Image

The settings could be:

Internal Voltage Display: Volt / %
Telemetry1 Voltage Display: Volt / %
Telemetry2 Voltage Display: Volt / %

If we want to handle mixed battery type (NiMh in receiver and LiPo in plane/copter) it would rather be: Volt / %C9 / %C10 / %C11 / %C12 / %C13 / %C14 / %C15 / %C16

When choosing % display mode you'll need to specify 100% battery voltage (for exemple 12,6V for a 3S Lipo) and the 0% battery voltage (9v for the same Lipo) so the firmware would know on which limits he has to apply the curve for percentage conversion.

For a NiMH it would be from 1.4V per cell to 1V.

Poor little 9X, will it have enough eeprom and memory to handle this :D

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by C.João »

In my point of view... if you loose the notion of your' lipos voltage... probably you are going to end up with a puffed pack, dead cells or a nasty crash down...

I'm not saying its easy to think on voltages... but I surely prefer that so I keep track of what is going on...
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by capitaineflam25 »

I understand your point of view, that confirm the fact that it should be an optional feature.

For 6 monthes i used to check with a voltmeter my packs before every flight, now that i own a Turnigy wattmeter that directly gives me the pack value in % its rare when i came back to the voltmeter.

Would you appreciate if you're Smartpbone gives you its battery value in V :D (OK if you have a jailbreaked iPhone you can do that...)
Anyone know what technique uses a smartphone to show the percentage ?
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Flaps 30 »

Now this I would love to have for the TX Lipo and more importantly the Lipo flight pack. I have to carry around paperwork to remind me of the percentage used against voltage, or use the GC wattmeter to give me the figures.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by jhsa »

another option. maybe it could aternate (couple of seconds one and then the other) between voltage and percentage.. but all this would have to be selectable..

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Daedalus66 »

jhsa wrote:another option. maybe it could aternate (couple of seconds one and then the other) between voltage and percentage.. but all this would have to be selectable..

João
This is a good idea. I like the idea of a realistic display of capacity remaining, but I also want to know the voltage. So it needs to display both numbers, either simultaneously or alternating.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by GyroGearloose »

I've suggested elsewhere, but this could be easily scaled automatically from the existing %THR timer. Assuming you have that timer set correctly, then % time == % battery roughly. So, just show what percentage of the timer has elapsed, and you'll have a pretty good estimate of batter life remaining.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by capitaineflam25 »

GyroGearloose wrote:I've suggested elsewhere, but this could be easily scaled automatically from the existing %THR timer. Assuming you have that timer set correctly, then % time == % battery roughly. So, just show what percentage of the timer has elapsed, and you'll have a pretty good estimate of batter life remaining.

-Gyro
In your suggestion you're talking about battery capacity (in mAh) not battery voltage (in V) is that right ?
Battery capacity is an interresting indicator if you know exactly what is its value before flying and if you precisely know how much your aircraft is draining.

One of the features i like with the FrSky voltage telemetry is that i can directly plug the battery to the aircraft to read its voltage, no need to check it with a voltmeter prior to mounting it.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by GyroGearloose »

capitaineflam25 wrote: In your suggestion you're talking about battery capacity (in mAh) not battery voltage (in V) is that right ?
Not precisely... I'm applying the same concept as was used for the THR% timer -- the concept that, approximately at least, the integral of throttle position and time equates to some roughly equal value. For the THR% time display, it's calculated as a timer that runs faster or slower based on the throttle position, and lets the user set how much "variable speed time" to give a certain model and battery pack. So, assuming I can run my heli at 50% throttle for 10 minutes, we can guestimate that I'd only get 5 minutes at full throttle. We set the timer for 5 minutes (at full throttle) and it slows down proportionally if I'm less than 100% throttle. This works pretty well, but VARIABLE TIME isn't a very logical or direct measure. That said, the mechanism is ALMOST to being what I'd prefer to see as a unitless percentage capacity. I don't need to know I have 1249mah remaining, I need to know it's about 55% "fuel"... which we'd arrive at by the current "time" divided by the user-set time. In my example of 5 minutes, we know that 3 variable-minutes remaining out of 5 v-mins (regardless of mah or volts or anything else) is 60% battery capacity. Make sense?

I'd be happy to code this up and JUST TRY IT if I could figure out how to compile the ER9X project on my system without devoting a day to just that...
capitaineflam25 wrote: Battery capacity is an interresting indicator if you know exactly what is its value before flying and if you precisely know how much your aircraft is draining.
Actually, I don't WANT a MAH reading... that's too much thought. Rather than "1254mah out of 2200mah", I'm thinking a big summarized "63% TxBat" or simple battery icon/bar display. I don't have telemetry, but I'd imagine side by side Tx and Rx voltage bargraphs would be intuitive enough for your purpose -- the Tx is a big calculator, so don't make us do the math!

-Gyro
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

We are talking about the flight pack here aren't we? Not the Tx battery. Using the voltage to to estimate % used has the problem that the battery voltage drops under load so the higher the throttle, the lower measured voltage.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by capitaineflam25 »

Yes, flightpack voltage is the target. TX pack is discharging so slowly (particularly when you are using lipo) that it's not an issue when TX low voltage triggers when you're flying, if you have set a sufficient warning you know that your flightpack will remains the weakest link.

I'm new to telemetry, i've discovered (just like Mike is saying) that the voltage drop when throttle is applied, so it brings you to lower your flight pack voltage alert. Without doing this, the telemetry alerts is triggering everytime you put on some throttle.

I'm asking the question to more experienced telemetry user: how do you find the good voltage ceil for telemetry alert, by trying and adjusting ?

In a theoritical point of view, would it be possible to guess battery remaining capacity using the following variables: battery type (LiPo for ex.), element number (3S for ex.), immediate battery voltage, immediate throttle %, a static coefficient that would represent your configuration consumption ?
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

I'm hoping FrSky will come out with their current sensor soon. This way we can measure the actual used capacity. Er9x already has the ability if a current sensor is connected to A1 or A2 analog inputs. There is a current sensor device available (hall effect so no electrical losses) that has been used by Charles Beeney I believe.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Dennis1979 »

Sorry for bumping up a topic like this.

But is this already possible? I really would like this feature, because I'm not good at calculating "on the fly"
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Dennis1979 »

Hi Guys,

Is this already possible? I'm really looking for an option like this.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

If you use the FAS-40 or FAS-100, then you can display the flight battery current. This is also added up over time and you can have the total mAh used displayed. You can also set alarms, using audio or voice switches.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Dennis1979 »

Tnx Mike for the quick response.


So, could the FAS-* be connected to the volt port on the hub or does it need to go straight to the rx's digital port.

To be honest, I haven't seen any options in er9x for this kinda stuff and I'm running er9x-r791 / V1.656-Mike

I actually need a very detailed manual, the one here: http://openrcforums.com/wiki/index.php/Er9x_user_guide isn't as detailed a I wish it was.


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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

According to the FAS-100 instructions it can connect to either the HUB volt port, or direct to the receiver data port.
On the custom telemetry screen you can choose Amps, Mah, and Fasv, for the current, used capacity and battery voltage.
These can also be used in custom switches, and voice switches.
I haven't actually used one myself yet. I recently got a FAS-100, but I need to upgrade my hubs to V2 to use it with them, then get it all installed. Then I'll need some decent weather!

If you update eepe, you will get the 'latest; pdf version of the manual. But this may not have much in it yet about the telemetry.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by GyroGearloose »

Dennis1979 wrote:But is this already possible? I really would like this feature, because I'm not good at calculating "on the fly"
Dennis: It is absolutely possible, and in fact already done on the ER9X and Open9X codebases... The issue appears to be how fast new features get put into Companion9X in order to be selectable in the build process, as well as my own limited development time to make it runtime-selectable instead of "dirtier" compile options.

[Update: It IS now selectable runtime, so you can turn it on/off per model or per mood that day...]

My "FakeFuel" meter displays a graphic fuel gauge that provides an estimate of the flight battery's charge state. It replaces the display of Timer1 (and in fact piggybacks it's time, beep, mode settings in the normal model menu). Alongside the battery guage is a display of PERCENTAGE, and a very sneaky interpolated flight time remaining that attempts to give you real world ("wall clock") time in a count-down format.
snapshot_05.png
snapshot_05.png (1.48 KiB) Viewed 15000 times
Optionally (and suggested), it will automatically learn what your battery capacity is for each model, based on how much "TH% time" you're actually using between battery-change resets (long press exit, and the fuel gauge refills). If you don't want it to auto-learn, you can turn that behavior off and have to set the Timer1 value directly yourself -- in this mode, my gauge will "suggest" what value you should set it to, but not re-program the timer automatically for you. With my failing memory, I really like the automatic mode across 20-some models on two radios... :-)

-Gyro
Last edited by GyroGearloose on Sat May 18, 2013 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

Flew my FAS-100 yesterday, directly connected to the receiver, no hub. Unfortunately, I hadn't updated 9X I use for actual flying to r791, and there is a bug in r790 regarding the mAh operation for the FAS-100. So I had Amps, but not capacity.
Otherwise it worked correctly.
What was interesting is how little current was being used some of the time.
My test model is an aerobatic 48.5 inch (123 cm) wing span with an all up weight of 39 oz (1.1 kg).
Flight battery is 3S lipo 2300 mAh.
Just flying around between manoeuvres it was 6-8 Amps (at around 11.6V), full throttle went up to 19 Amps (at around 11.2V).
I'll need to check what the static current draw is on the ground at full throttle.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by jhsa »

It would be interesting with an wattmeter to see if those values are correct..
Or using the mAh calculation in the radio and then recharge the battery and see if what zou put back in is more or less the same as the value from the radio..
It sounds like that it's taking a bit too less amps to me.. I have an aerobatic model which weights about the same and my 2200mA batt doesn't last as long.. Of course It could be because I'm using a different motor as well so that means nothing.. it's worth the accuracy test anyway ;)

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

Motor is a XYH35-42 1000kv driving a (EDIT:) 10x7 11x7 prop (Turnigy by another name I believe).
I believe the figures in general as after a 7 minute flight I don't put back in much more than 1000 mAh. This is about an average of 9 amps for 7 minutes.
Just try keeping the throttle back while flying round ready for the next manoeuvre or tight turn, saves a lot. I'm often at less than half throttle, and I don't even need full throttle for takeoff which, as the battery is at its highest voltage and the 'plane is stationary to start, would take the highest current. I just open the throttle slowly, keeping the model straight and it is soon in the air, then just climb out slowly, none of this jump in the air and climb at 45 degrees stuff.

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by jhsa »

same here.. mine has a Hacker A30 16M. also driving a 11x7 Prop..
This motor is rated at 30A and it gets verz close with this prop, according to "drive calc". Just flying around I don't get more than 5 minutes flights.. when I recharge the battery (I land when batt alarm at 10V kicks in the first time) normally out half capacity back in...

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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by MikeB »

I was wrong, it's a 10x7 prop (Master Airscrew), that will explain it. I could, perhaps, have a little more power available, but I use this mainly as a test model for telemetry.
I have a slightly larger version of this model (53 inch, 54 oz), 4s 3000 pach, AXI 2826, 11x7 prop and 600watts if I want performance.

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Edit: It's the model in my Avatar and is over 10 years old.
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by jhsa »

That's cool :)
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Re: Suggestion: Display TX battery & telemetry voltage in %

Post by Flaps 30 »

MikeB wrote:Just flying around between manoeuvres it was 6-8 Amps (at around 11.6V), full throttle went up to 19 Amps (at around 11.2V).
I'll need to check what the static current draw is on the ground at full throttle.
Would be interesting to know the static current..

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