Ersky9xr for ground operation (Low level Throttle reverse)

[rszasz]

I'm currently using my 9xrpro and ersky9xr to control a model sailboat. The phys setup has the high values for the sail trim servo control pulling the sails in tight, but to emulate manual control of a boat (pulling the ropes brings the sails in) I've reversed the throttle on the limits menu. This has the unfortunate effect of the startup throttle zeroing check yanking on the sails at powerup. I still want to have the throttle zeroing on this model, but is it possible to have the zero point be the top of the throttle throw without making any physical changes on the model or controller?

[jhsa]

Go to the radio settings and find the option "Throttle Reverse" and turn it ON

João

[rszasz]

Go to the radio settings and find the option "Throttle Reverse" and turn it ON

João

Thanks, I was hoping it could be done on a per model basis so that I could switch it back to rc plane operation just by selecting a different model.

I don't fully understand the safety switch programming, but what I would like to do as a best case would be,

Default settings:
Regular throttle direction
On startup require throttle stick to be fully down to clear checks & enable throttle control (I think right now all TX is disabled until the stick error is cleared?)

If a Sailboat model is selected:
Reverse throttle direction
On startup, require throttle stick fully up to enable throttle control, either disabling TX, or sending a %100 into the prelimiter stage so that limits are still enforced.


I think I can set a safety switch to enable on startup, and send the 100% to the stage before the limters, but avoiding a down, then up on startup would be nice, as would having the voice prompt.

Is it possible to trigger the same (throttle stick at 100% to gain control) if the receiver goes into failsafe? I have the failsafe on the receiver set to full release the sails and go hard over so as to stop the boat, and it would be neat if I could avoid yanking as hard as the servo can when connection is re-established. I already found the rate change limiting, which is a very cool feature.

Thanks for helping me out

[Bill]

Don't use the limits menu settings min and max but go to the end of the row find the three dotted lines and when over them press menu that will invert all channel operations for the individual model.

[MikeB]

Give me a little time. I have already added an option for the throttle idle position to be at the centre, I should be able to add +100% as a third option, on a per model basis.

Mike.

[rszasz]

Don't use the limits menu settings min and max but go to the end of the row find the three dotted lines and when over them press menu that will invert all channel operations for the individual model.

That's what I was doing, but it doesn't fix the throttle check on startup. I like that quite a bit, and with the "throttle reverse" setting in the "general" settings page turned off (general setting applies to all models), the startup check caused the sails to be yanked a bit violently when the check passed.

[rszasz]

Give me a little time. I have already added an option for the throttle idle position to be at the centre, I should be able to add +100% as a third option, on a per model basis.

Mike.

0% would work for me, not perfectly like +100% but it would massively reduce the magnitude of the yank. Is this available in r213? or for the next release.

[jhsa]

Give me a little time. I have already added an option for the throttle idle position to be at the centre, I should be able to add +100% as a third option, on a per model basis.

Mike.

Mike, doesn't the throttle reverse already do that? I mean, check that the stick is up at startup? Or are you adding it together with the throttle at centre because of being a per model option?

Thanks

João

[MikeB]

Yes, on a per model basis.
I've just posted a test version, with this feature in, on this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4676#p65894.

For the 9XR-PRO, extract ersky9xr_rom.bin.

Mike.

[jhsa]

Mike, could you please then also put it on er9x if it is not too much trouble? need to take some pictures

Thanks

João

[rszasz]

Yes, on a per model basis.
I've just posted a test version, with this feature in, on this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4676#p65894.

For the 9XR-PRO, extract ersky9xr_rom.bin.

Mike.

Found it, and its working exactly as it should on my 9xr Pro. If you could please add a post on this thread if/when you add +100 as the idle position


Setting is found at
Model>General>pg 3 > Throttle Off {-100%, 0%}


on a totally separate note, if you had a choice between a 40 input i2c GPIO with all pins read as inputs, or using multiplexing of pins on a 16 pin GPIO to allow for multiple 8 position switches. what would you prefer to program for.(I'm looking at a bunch of different chips, and trying to find a reasonably available, dense wire to board connector so the board would be as small as possible)

[MikeB]

If you could please add a post on this thread if/when you add +100 as the idle position

But the test version has this doesn't it? This means it will be in the next formal commit as well.

If you want to add a (or several) 8 way switche(s), consider an I2C ANALOG (A2D) device. One 8-way switch would need only ONE input. Just wire the 8-way switch with a resistor divider chain so it looks like a pot. This is how we add 6-way switches currently. Support for a single 6-way switch is already available in the 9XR-PRO.

Getting the firmware to handle several 8-way switches may be more difficult, however they are wired.

Mike.

[rszasz]

If you could please add a post on this thread if/when you add +100 as the idle position

But the test version has this doesn't it? This means it will be in the next formal commit as well.

.....

Mike.

If I got the latest version, it didnt...... wait a sec.. um, just realized I forgot to flash...

Derp..

Yup, all there...

[rszasz]

The trim copy function is what got me thinking about the usefullness of a 6 more buttons (1 per axis, 1 per joystick)for copying into trim, then I thought, why not see if a whole load of switches could be supported easily in hardware. With a 8 channel GPIO chip, two 6 position switches would be simple to wire up, (sw1 common, sw2 common, (position 1, position n, position 6)) each new channel would allow for another 6 way switch (set switch common high, see which position reads high)

[MikeB]

After some thought, it seems that having a default idle position that may be set to +100% is not as safe as it might be. This might be set by mistake, so I've removed that option, but added the option of setting throttle reverse on a per model basis, instead of in the general settings.

Mike.

[ReSt]

But isn't it as dangerous to have the an idle poition of 0 ?
This also could be set wrong by mistake.

There will never be absolute protection against wrang handling.

Reinhard

[jhsa]

Depends on which ESC you're using.. If a car ESC for example that uses 0% as zero throttle, then you have problems if the stick is fully down at -100 or fully up at +100..
the thr default of +100 poses a great risk when set by mistake and connecting a normal ESC to the channel.. Normally the ESC should enter programming mode, but if doesn't..
So the best is to allow stick reverse on a per model basis, at least the channel will be reversed with it.. so if changed by mistake, the idle point also changes. If need to have another idle point, then invert the channel. at least the person is doing it deliberately..

João

[Daedalus66]

Anyone having throttle off position as 0 (middle stick) will surely have the transmitter set up with spring centered throttle stick. In that case, it would seem reasonable to have a global option for centered vs end throttle.

On the other hand, someone with a regular friction throttle would always use one end or the other as zero, but might have two different types of model (plane vs sailboat?) and would need per model selection.

So how about a global option for "Throttle Zero" END/MID, and a per-model option for "Throttle Reverse" NOR/REV?
Normal would be -100 (zero for nearly all aircraft ESCs) when in END mode and 0 when in MID mode.

[jhsa]

So how about a global option for "Throttle Zero" END/MID, and a per-model option for "Throttle Reverse" NOR/REV?

With the MID option on the global setting you are limiting all models on the transmitter to a spring centered throttle.. The MID has to be in a per model basis..
Actually the best possibility I can see is to drop the global setting all together.. Maybe a screen with some explanatory text and a confirmation option could be implemented. obviously the warning has to work well, default would be -100 is throttle idle and is towards the pilot.

So, two options in model setup. general:
Throttle reverse ON/OFF
Thr Default 0% ON/OFF

João

[Daedalus66]

What I'm saying is precisely that anyone using the mid position will have modified the transmitter to have a spring centered throttle. Hence ALL models WILL use the MID mode. That's why making it global makes sense.

[jhsa]

But there might also be people that don't spring load them and fly also planes.. or multirotors, or helis, and want the default to be in the center for just one or 2 models..

That's why this must be all in a per model basis, or it will get very confusing..

João

[Daedalus66]

How can you have a center zero throttle that isn't spring centered? And that means modifying the Tx.

So whereas an end zero throttle doesn't need any mechanical change, a center zero one needs a dedicated transmitter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jhsa]

that's one of the reasons that you have the center beep If you want to fly airplanes and drive cars with your tx you can't have it spring loaded Actually I believe some people use the throttle stick's 2 halves for glider flying, and they do different things?

João

[KAL]

for example a sailing plane with motor:
0% to 100% : motor
-100 to 0% : airbrakes

[Kilrah]

that's one of the reasons that you have the center beep If you want to fly airplanes and drive cars with your tx you can't have it spring loaded

Doing it without a spring is possible but doesn't mean it's a good and safe idea. Touch the stick and the car starts running away without stopping until you manage to grab the radio and carefully move the stick until you find the center manually again... for multicopters with vario control you don't want the thing to either fly away or into the ground uncontrollably until you manually regain control when (not if) you happen to bump the stick. Knowing you I'm surprised you'd even consider it.

In practice for a car you'd use the elevator stick as throttle... but otherwise just be reasonable and get a second radio dedicated for models that require the spring.

Gliders are a valid case.

[jhsa]

. for multicopters with vario control you don't want the thing to either fly away or into the ground uncontrollably until you manually regain control when (not if) you happen to bump the stick. Knowing you I'm surprised you'd even consider it.

For multicopters you don't use throttle at center as far as I know. You use it as an airplane would. So, I can't see what is the problem there
I'm not saying that for cars and boats, you shouldn't spring load the tx.. I'm saying that many people that uses a normal tx for the job don't do it. Some other might do. But if I would use the tx for mixed models, I wouldn't do it..

João

[rszasz]

All this conversation shows why we need force feedback!

Why don't we have force feedback yet mike? You're a programmer, you must have some way to just make it happen.

In all honesty, gimbals with magnetic sensing, and those little flat piezo motors for force feedback would be amazing. (either direct drive or setting the midpoint of a spring return) each gimbal would end up costing $300 though