Ailerons moving slow & with delay

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offers
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Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:55 pm

Hello open-tx friends

In my local club we fly mainly F3A pattern ship (a 2x2 meters, 5kg, 10cell),
Until recently I was the only one that use the open-tx (Taranis) on such big planes (Futaba & JR is mostly used)
But now another guy jump on the opex-tx wagon and fly his expensive plane with Taranis X9E
He use it with success for 3 month, but last week he had a very strange (and dangerous) problem.

He took off, and found out that he have limited control on ailerons, he succeeded to land (causing some damage to his plane)
When he checked the controls, he found out that both of the ailerons are moving slow & with delay!!
All the other control are working fine.
After turning the transmitter off & on, the problem disappeared, and did not reproduced again.


My question is:
* Did someone had this issue or something similar?
* Can someone have a theory to what is the problem be?


Configuration:
Plane: Tornado
Transmitter: Taranis X9E
Receiver: X8R
Telemetry: Two FLVSS LiPo Voltage Sensor (for the 10 cells)
Version: OpenTx version 2.1.8
Separate battery for receiver
Each servo (including the ailerons), has its own channel (no y cables)

His planes look like this one:
Image

Carbo
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Carbo » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:48 pm

offers wrote:His planes look like this one:
Maybe a attached eepe would be more useful?

offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:06 pm

Hello dear openTx users

Today the problem happen again to my friend.
He upgrade to the latest 2.1.9, but not solved.
He calibrated the sticks, but not solved.
He noticed that the channel monitor display on the transmitter, show the movement with delay as wee, so it nothing to do with the receiver or servo.

I am attaching the eepe fie if this is any help.


tornado1-inputs.png
tornado1-mixes.png
oren1_tornado.eepe
(77.03 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
thanks,
offer

offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:16 pm

He managed to record a video of the problem
You can see in the video that when the stick fully right, the channel value go fast to 30, and then slowly to 40 ( sometimes more slowly the now)

When the stick released, the value zeros very slowly, like it have a delay

Any idea what is the problem?

https://vimeo.com/188649936

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Kilrah
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:20 pm

Most likely bad connection between the gimbal and mainboard, check all wires and plugs.


offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:43 am

All the wires have been checked, nothing unusual.
More suggestions?

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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:47 pm

I use radio firmware erSky9x on Taranis: (http://www.er9x.com/).
OpenTx firmware is very good, so I would agree with Kilrah it maybe a hardware problem.
One member in our RC group had trouble with his internal XJT transmitter which sounds very similar to your problem (this problem was intermitting).
Was able to verify the problem was with the internal XJT transmitter by using identical setup setting on my Taranis-X9D,
(both using OpenTx firmware).
This RC group member did not want to give my radio back to me because it worked perfectly for him,
(my Taranis radio with the same setup, worked without any failures for him).
I did a lot of testing between the two Taranis-x9d radio's which proved the problem to be with the internal XJT transmitter.
Sent this problem Taranis-x9d radio in for warranty repair, which the Taranis back PC board with it's internal XJT transmitter,
was replaced and when he received it back the new intermitting XJT transmitter problem went away.
Maybe, you could purchase an external XJT module and use it for testing between the modules .

If problem is not with the XJT internal transmitter module, the problem could be with the Gimbals.

Bob B.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme, Er9x on 9x with Smartieparts Programmer with TelemetrEZ Board
3D Printing: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85)

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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:53 pm

Also you may want to try different receivers.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme, Er9x on 9x with Smartieparts Programmer with TelemetrEZ Board
3D Printing: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85)

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Kilrah
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Kilrah » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:59 pm

Why would a different receiver change anything to it when the problem can be seen on the channel monitor?? :x

REALLY test the wiring well, problems with the connectors on the potentiometer boards and on the mainboard have been mentioned many times on the X9E, wiggling them usually shows a difference.

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dinamich
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by dinamich » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:44 pm


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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:24 pm

Kilrah wrote:Why would a different receiver change anything to it when the problem can be seen on the channel monitor?? :x
Hi Kilrah,
I acknowledge you have a greater understanding to how everything works together.
I am only making a suggestion to what maybe a possible cause to what the problem maybe.
Thank you for you input, it is greatly appreciated :D.

Bob B.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme, Er9x on 9x with Smartieparts Programmer with TelemetrEZ Board
3D Printing: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85)

offers
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Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:37 pm

Some new information:
My friend opened again the transmitter to check the wiring, and while playing with the gimbal, a pice of foam fell out of the gimbal!
A problem with the wiring has not been found, but he can not reproduce the problem anymore.

Can you see a reasonable scenario that this peace of foam could cause the problem?
As far as I remember the stick connected directly to the potentiometer

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bob195558
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by bob195558 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:54 am

Dose the Taranis-x9e have optical Gimbals ?

Did you hot-glue the flimsy wire plug connections to the Gimbals ? :?:
Which dinamich posted a video showing a problem with the Gimbals wire plug connections.

Add Edit: The wires look to be very stiff to the Gimbals, has your Taranis-x9e been changed to silicon wires to its Gimbals ?

Bob B.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme, Er9x on 9x with Smartieparts Programmer with TelemetrEZ Board
3D Printing: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85)

offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:38 pm

We did not glue the plug since we was not aware to this problem until dinamich pointed us the the relevant thread

Yesterday it happens again, but now on the rudder, and it was really the plug, so he glue all of them now,
We do hope it was the same problem on the ailirons as well.

frankyrc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by frankyrc » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:37 am

Just to inform: I noticed the same problem at my X9E for a few weeks now. From time to time the "slow motion" is noticeable. The software is 2.2.1. Receivers are X8R or D8-II. With older software the problem was not seen. The "slow motion" only is noticable at one model and only at the aileron. The model is a sailplane with flaps and electric-engine. Other models in my X9E are not affected (for now).
I measured voltage and current, but it was ok. Voltage was high enough for the servos. I guess the problem is at X9E software.

offers
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by offers » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:53 pm

Hi
We also thought it was the problem
But it turned out to be the plug
Check it 3 time! Before you blame something else

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3djc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by 3djc » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:08 pm

X9E gimballs are very well known for that, and mine did no exception, with exact same symptoms.

I have replaced all the gimball wire with turnigy silicon wire, removed the conector and direct soldered my gimbals, problem gone, and stayed gone (well even more now that I have put M9 Hall gimballs ;D)

3djc

skyboyken
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by skyboyken » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:08 am

Hi frankyrc

I am having the same problem on my Q7S, also on aileron. My radio has Hall effect gimbals which I think means we’re seeing the same problem on different hardware.

I’m flying on Mode 1. Are you?

Until something else comes to light my thought is that this is most likely a firmware problem.

Cheers

Ken

Pierre
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by Pierre » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:57 pm

Hi,

I also had the same problem from time to time, but didn’t identify it until today. When I turn on the radio and the plane (a glider) for the first time, the flaps and aileron where moving very slowly. After maybe one minute, everything was back working as usual. And I think I had the same problem on another glider, but didn’t identify what was the problem at this time, and did assume it was a problem with the servos. I was happy to land without damage, but when I test the radio a bit later after restarting the radio, everything was back to normal.
i’m using a QX7 S, so with hall gimball.

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3djc
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Re: Ailerons moving slow & with delay

Post by 3djc » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:43 pm

As I said, the X9E gimbal issue are very very well known, and have absolutely nothing to do with firmware, there is more than ample evidence of that. Eventually, all X9E will have that at one time or another.

For the two x7 with hall stick having an issue, if it was firmware, we would likely have a lot of report of that (there is a huge number of those out there). Hall sticks are complex device, that I guess can fail (or in very rare occurence do strange things ?) Anyhow, this issue is different from x9e and will need to be investigated by frsky I guess

3djc

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