EU- Norm EN 300 328 V1.8.1 and new Frsky Transmitters

[Helle]

Hy,

what about the new EU-Norm for Adaptive Transmitter Systems for RC

EN 300 328 V1.8.1 "Medium Access Protocols"

and the new Frsky systems comming

does it run only with a software update?

all Frsky transmitters and the Taranis are only zertificated to EN 300328 V1.7.1 !!!

End of 2014 new RC Systems only with adaptive FHSS Systems are allowed in EU!!!

Helle

[Helle]

Hy,

End of 2014 new RC Systems only with adaptive FHSS Systems are allowed in EU!!!

this is a strong border for lots of 2.4ghz chinese transmitters!!!

this new EU Norm was powered from EMIG assosiation,
members are Graupner, Multiplex, Robbe, Futaba,Horizon,Spectrum ....
they will shut the market!!

look at the EU-Norm

hope Frsky will certificate the new Horus to EN300 328 V1.8.1 !!

Helle

[Kilrah]

Nearly all existing equipment operating in the band is not LBT-capable, so there is no way goverments can just require every FHSS radio system to be put to the trash in 1 year.

If this gets accepted and comes into play it will likely be several years down the road, in the form of "all equipment sold starting some date in 2 years from now must comply", and a delay of a several more years for non-compliant equipment to be decommisionned or upgraded.

A bit like the 40MHz to 35MHz change here. It was mentioned 4 years in advance before 40MHz equipment couldn't be sold anymore, then there was another 4-year period before 40MHz equipment could not be used anymore. So 8 total years between the time of the announcement to the time you could not use your equipment anymore, and 4 years for manufacturers to come up with compliant solutions.

So nothing to worry about for now, it will be for the next generation of equipment.

[Helle]

Hy Kilrah,

this is not the point.

The argument at the RCnetwork, and there is DD8ED, member of EMIG and at the Commssion of the EU-Norm,
....Taranis is not certificated for the new EU-Norm ..... so dont buy it!

They are bushing opentx and Taranis there in this way, because the RC-brands lose cash!

look at #212
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthre ... ost3194254


I hope you know who EMIG is! --> assosiation of all the european Transmitter producer and sellers, there are all the big RC-brands!
EMIG-RC (European Manufacturer & Importer Group / Radio Control)
http://www.emig-rc.de/1.html

and isad-members: http://isadev.de/mitglieder/

And there are currently now only 3 or 4 official verification companies who are allowed and can certificate the EN 300 328 V1.8.1
Example:
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/content. ... ndlich-gut
http://www.phoenix-testlab.de/de/untern ... e/3895.jsp
http://www.rohde-schwarz.de/de/news_eve ... Band_.html


All are in europe! So the european big RC-brands get an advantage of 2 years!


This is the next try to close the market, same as with Hobbykings German Warehouse, Hamburg.

And you will see, the great howling and bushing starts when Horus appears in 2014, and it has "only" EN 300328 V1.7.1
I bet you!


By the way the latest Graupner MX32 is also only certificated to the "old" EN 300328 V1.7.1
but they can make software updates at RX and TX they told


Helle

[Kilrah]

From your link: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/content. ... ndlich-gut

Es bleibt eine Übergangsfrist von 3 Jahren, nach der alle Systeme, die in den Verkehr gebracht werden, der neuen Version des Standards entsprechen müssen.

In Betrieb befindliche Systeme sind von der Änderung im Standard nicht betroffen. Das Inkrafttreten der neuen Version der Norm bedeutet NICHT!, dass die Systeme in Händen der Modellbauer nicht weiter betrieben werden können. Falls möglich, sollte allerdings ein Update durchgeführt werden, sobald dieses für die jeweilige Anlage verfügbar ist.

So it's as I said, firstly the new norm needs to be accepted by the politics, then you get 3 years before the NEW equipment you sell is required to be compliant with 1.8.1 (and even then that's a "recommendation", i.e. goverments can decide a longer delay). So that's 2016 at the earliest. All equipment sold before that does not need to be upgraded if no upgrade is offered.

No problem at all. Besides, ALL FrSky equipment can be easily firmware upgraded by the users. Futaba receivers and most transmitters can't (or only by service centers = $$$$ for the users).
This will only be for hte next generation of systems, plus it's easy to comply. No worries.

It is also normal to only have a small number of labs capable to test for the standard when it won't be in effect before a few years. By then no doubt they'll all have the capability.

[Helle]

Hy Kilrah,

sorry, you are wrong.
The new Norm is valid at 01.01.2015
you only be allowed to sell old system to 31.12.2014.
http://www.emcrules.com/2012/10/r-direc ... nized.html
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies ... ards/rtte/

and you will see latest at mid of 2014 the big RC producers will make advertising of updating to "new " system

Futaba with the FASSTest has this new Norm already
simple DSM2 is dead
...
"Neue EU-Testanforderungen für Spreizband-Funkanwendungen (WLAN,
Bluetooth, Zigbee etc.) nach Ablauf der Übergangsfrist zum 31.12.2014
der Normen EN 300 328 V1.8.1 und EN 301 893 V1.7.1" ..

Does Frsky know this in details?

Helle

[jhsa]

But why can't the taranis be certified? as far as I understand the module inside the taranis can be upgraded, right? so, frsky just have to make an upgrade and WE just have to flash the firmware, correct?
And it is not only the taranis, this would affect all frsky modules and receivers (with telemetry as they transmit also)

Also they can't just tell the people that bought systems in 2014 and before that they can't use their systems in 2015 because of the new law.. when they bought the systems they were legal. they must give it a few years before people can't use them anymore..

I'm sure that all frsky products will comply to the new norm, and very soon..
It would be interesting to know what frsky has to say about the subject.
João

[Kilrah]

As said above, all existing equipment is fine. Only new equipment sold after some date will need to comply, and Helle's link seems to say 2015.

[jhsa]

then frsky just have to make sure their equipment comply to the new norm after that date...

[Helle]

Hy,

01.01.2015 is the deadline!

Frsky has to make their equipment compare to EN 300 328 V1.8.1 in the early 2014 because software evelopment, test and the certification prozess take time
And don't forget: The competiters agitate against not compatibel produkts, this will start in the early 2014 you will see!

Best would be the Horus is certificated witht the old EN 300 328 V1.7.1and new EN 300 328 V1.8.1


Helle

[jhsa]

I'm sure that even the taranis will be certified.
I think frsky is not sleeping

João

[dvogonen]

I find the timing of the new requirements to be less interesting than the actual requirements themselves. What is it that all of a sudden makes e.g. DSM2 equipment illegal? Is it that the protocol does not switch channels after initial lock? What's wrong with the way FrSky uses the 2.4GHz band?
Besides RC there is a huge number of products using 2.4 GHz for anything from WiFi connection, bluetooth and short range video and audio transmission. Will all these also be affected?

[Helle]

hy,

yes they will all be affected!
RC Tx and Rx is only a very small part

Helle

[jhsa]

then half of the world would have to change all the equipment at home, wifi, laptops, mobile phones, etc... Can you imagine that? it would be the end of the world There would be a european revolution

[Kilrah]

How many times has it been said that this does NOT affect existing equipment???

[jhsa]

then half of the world would have to change all the equipment at home, wifi, laptops, mobile phones, etc... Can you imagine that? it would be the end of the world There would be a european revolution

I didn't say "will"

[Flaps 30]

I see that this isn't a a standard that is in force at present, or even a standard that has been agreed with all parties at this stage. Let's be clear that many countries are involved in this, and it isn't unheard to see countries going their own way if they wish to do so. Surely before the bureaucratic nose pickers pass stuff into some European 'law', they will have to consult with the manufacturers before they go much further and I have no doubt that there will be some tough talking from both sides before anything happens.

Obviously none of this should worry us in the UK. We will just tell the United States of Europe to go shove it if we don't like what we see. I'm sure the French would do the same.

[dvogonen]

I am glad to hear that the norm applies to all 2.4GHz equipment. In some regulatory work there is a grace period during which existing equipment is allowed. After the grace period it is illegal to use the equipment. If the new norm only applied to RC equipment one could worry that this could be the case since the amount of RC radios is relatively small in comparison to main stream equipment.

But if all 2.4Ghz equipment is potentially affected, it is absolutely impossible to use the grace period model. Almost every gizmo sold the last few years has some kind of 2.4GHz radio (think cars, phones, computers, anything wireless, house alarms etc, etc).

I have worked a lot with equipment that needs to be certified (commercial shipping equipment and electronic payment systems). There is a never ending cycle of added requirements, retesting and recertification. This is the nature of developing for a regulated market. I have however never heard of new regulation going from draft to approved and implemented norm in the short time mentioned here. But who knows, this might be an exception.

[G550Ted]

Sounds to me like some entrenched bureaucrats trying to justify their unnecessary positions. An unfortunate evolution everywhere.

Ted

[Helle]

hy,

this does NOT affect existing equipment!

but for all new one you will sell or buy after 01.01.2015

but for us its important that the latest RC parts has a EN300328 V1.8.1certifiate

this will be a big argument for competiters in 2014 for selling their RC Tx and RX

And look at the menbers of the EMIG commission
there is Robbe sitting with Futaba a strong member, and now no wonder why
the new Standard for RC-equipment is exact what Futabe has as FASSTest

Helle

[Flaps 30]

Ahhh... So we have Robbe and Futaba trying to stitch up the the whole thing to suit themselves, and in the process trying to keep out the competition. IIRC we don't look upon that sort of activity with a favourable light. It sounds like I should be making a call to my MEP and our radio regulatory boys (OFCOM) to point out that this type of thing goes against the spirit of fair competition. Hopefully it will stall the whole process and set it back to square one. Don't forget that this nasty bit of paperwork isn't affective as of now or in the future, unless it gets voted for in the form that it is on at present.

As you may have gathered. I am no fan of the EU. It's Jobs for the boys and the incompetent IMO. Look at what they did to stop the invasion of PLT's that have covered the radio spectrum with c**p.... Nothing!!!

[jhsa]

I'm sure some agree, and some don't. But let's not start a political discussion here as it is not the right place and also due to this kind of discussion always ending up bad
If we go off topic as usual, let's pick up another subject ;

What about beer for example?

[Flaps 30]

Sadly a lot of the directives and proposed standards changes is all about politics and who can bung money into the right places. Sony were a good example of this in the TV broadcasting area. They flooded the market with their digital kit and it became the de facto standard. Panasonic and others followed soon after doing the same thing.

Radio regulation has always been a problem and it will remain that way in my eyes. Look at all of the illegal (in the UK and a lot of Europe) kit that is coming into Europe that the FPV brigade use without a second thought. The only real standards that work are those that are Worldwide. Europe is a very small market place and it doesn't have much of a clout when you compare it to China, Russia, and the America's. So the EU market really doesn't matter to a lot of manufacturers, and the more regulation that the EU brings in will put them off landing kit in Europe.

Beer is off topic.

[G550Ted]

I just processed "EN 300 328 V1.8.1" with my Buck Rogers magic decoder ring and found that it is secret code for "Drink More Beer"! So, not off topic after all, just a subliminal message courtesy of your local brewer.

Ted

[jhsa]

and that is what I'm doing at this precise moment..
Cheers to you all..

João

[Helle]

Hy,

there is no time for a joke
all european competitors work for over a year on the implementation
and will be the first to get updates in 2014
and it is difficult to implement a kind of "Futaba FASSTest" protokoll

This will be a serious problem for Frsky, you will see

Helle

[Kilrah]

It's no rocket science, it's something that can be implemented in a couple of days if needed. No worries.
The entire Taranis was developed and put on the market in only about a year

The problem is that I don't believe this new requirement is actually better for the users. I wouldn't be surprised if it reduced safety at least in some cases.

[Helle]

Hy,

some more Infos here
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/content. ... n-Nachtrag

Helle

[hari]

You're making a lot of fuss about expected evolvement. The changes in 1.8.1 should lead to better utilisation of the spectrum. I'm pretty sure that FrSky will be able to stay within regulations after applying a firmware update to the radios. Furthermore, this would not even be needed, as 1.8.1 does not apply for the Taranis. It was placed on the market before end of 2014. So it can be sold even when 1.8.1 is current.

[Romolo]

Yes really a lot of fuss for nothing:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cc2500.pdf

Page 2

The controller is:
"Suited for systems compliant with EN 300 328 and EN 300 440 class 2 (Europe), FCC CFR47 Part 15 (US), and ARIB STD-T66 (Japan)"