openrcforums

We have a very large EEPROM, 512K bytes. When I started ersky9x I opted not to use it all for model memory in case I needed some for some other purpose. I always like to keep resources in reserve for future possibilities. openTx just grabbed the whole lot.

With backup model to SD card and restore model from SD card, you don't really have a limitation on models anyway.

Certain future items expected from HK to go with the 'PRO are probably not yet available in openTx.

Mike.

Thanks Mike. I thought that was the case but seeing it here brings everyone up to speed with the facts. Wow, more surprises coming. Exciting times.
SM


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk, small keys and a big finger.

jhsa wrote:the old 9xr ships with a m128 since quite a while..


@mnementh, I don't know if you are going to get wizards on the pro I tell you what, try both fw and then decide. if you feel more confortable with opentx keep it.. It is easy to go back and forward anyway.
For me even 20 memories are more than enough, and I can save my models on the SD Card.. Don't know if opentx handles a single model but I remember that until recently it didn't.. Maybe it does now.. so, saving models to and from the card it's a kids play..


João

Highlighted: Huh?

I've had to shuffle models back & forth for quite a while with my 9XR; I like to do variants on some aircraft until I settle on a profile I prefer, and I have 2 or 3 each of several different PNF microhelis, some BL and some not. The convenience of 60 model memories IS appealing.

MikeB wrote:We have a very large EEPROM, 512K bytes. When I started ersky9x I opted not to use it all for model memory in case I needed some for some other purpose. I always like to keep resources in reserve for future possibilities. openTx just grabbed the whole lot.

With backup model to SD card and restore model from SD card, you don't really have a limitation on models anyway.

Certain future items expected from HK to go with the 'PRO are probably not yet available in openTx.

Mike.

Mike... forgive my ignorance here as my Kung-Fu is weak; but why in the hell do we even need to store all the models in memory anyways?

Why can't we just store them on a card with a simple file structure that allows us to select a single active model directly from the card and bring it into memory in a transparent process without having to have a separate process to swap out certain ones when the active memory is full? It seems to me that we should be able to do that, and ultimately use less memory than storing 30 or 60 models in memory. Does it have to do with the structure of the arrays in which that data is stored?

And for those who are interested in OpenTX; here is the TX compatibilities page: http://www.open-tx.org/radios.html


mnem
*Feeling totally off-center*

mnementh wrote:

jhsa wrote:the old 9xr ships with a m128 since quite a while..


@mnementh, I don't know if you are going to get wizards on the pro I tell you what, try both fw and then decide. if you feel more confortable with opentx keep it.. It is easy to go back and forward anyway.
For me even 20 memories are more than enough, and I can save my models on the SD Card.. Don't know if opentx handles a single model but I remember that until recently it didn't.. Maybe it does now.. so, saving models to and from the card it's a kids play..


João

Highlighted: Huh?

I meant, to save a single model.. and also companion to load a single model and not the complete eeprom. That's what I meant above.
that is nothing new to er9x/ersky9x. so, you might have 32 memories, but have unlimited models on the SD Card..

João

Yeah, okay. I remember being able to save individual models in Companion9x on my computer, then picking & choosing from them to build a selection of models to load to the TX.

I'm pretty sure OpenTX has been able to manage individual models the way you say since the release of the Taranis, though.


mnem
*Sigh*

I will check in while.. I'm curious now
João

My new BT Modules arrived today; since I'm working with both HC-05 & HC-06 modules on more than 1 project, I decided to actually make the programming socket I've been meaning to do for years. It's loosely based on the schematic in the HC05-HC06 Datasheet; PC breadboard is Radio Shack # 276-158B, everything else is scavenged from my junk drawers and parts bins. I decided to use through-hole parts cuz I'm tired of needing tweezers for everything.
Jumper configurable between HC-05 + HC-06, it connects via FTDI or equivalent Serial/USB adapter.
I recycled one of my old BT Serial carrier boards for 3.3V Reg and buffer resistors, but moved LED1 offboard along with LED2.
I've included breakouts for KEY (With momentary switch & jumper), LED1 & LED2, USB DATA (-), USB DATA (+)

LED Ballasts are 470Ω, KEY Pulldown Resistors are 10KΩ, KEY Pullup Resistor is 470Ω.
Spring pins are cut from RJ-45 jacks and bent with a 2mm hook on the end; pins are bent and soldered with offset to hold BT Module approx 2mm above PC breadboard.

I'm programming & testing an HC-06 right now for the Pro.


mnem
*tzzzt*

Maybe soon you can do that in the radio itself

Maybe... but I'm using BT in a few headless applications as well; I just needed a quick & easy way to get basic parameters set before I embed the device.


mnem
I'm wearing pants!

mnementh wrote:
I'm pretty sure OpenTX has been able to manage individual models the way you say since the release of the Taranis, though.

No, I just checked.. it doesn't.. Only a complete eeprom with one model. That is the closest you get to save one single model.. in companion/openTX

João

Really?

Dang; that's a total pain in the patookie... we REALLY need to come up with a better solution though. I'm seeing the new DX6 advertised at $199.99, and it has Voice and 250 model memory PLUS SD card. "The Man" is coming closer and closer to having something that can compete.


mnem
I'm sorry; you'll have to check back later.

250 model memories? woo, what a waste of eeprom memory

or is it 25??

Well, we could have that many, if we only stored a few parameters for each model!

Mike.

But what's the point of having that many anyway? Who has 250 models ready to fly anyway?
I think 30 plus SD Card is more than enough.. More than that is waste of resources..
João

Yes, one of the guys at our field has that new DX6. Not discussing the pros and cons of Spectrum Tx and Telemetry, only 6 channels, etc....
HOWEVER, the form factor, beautiful slick black and nice rubbery expensive feel was frankly amazing.
My conclusion: "If only HK and Frsky could make a Tx looking and feeling like that!!!!!!!!"

mnementh wrote:Really?

Dang; that's a total pain in the patookie... we REALLY need to come up with a better solution though. I'm seeing the new DX6 advertised at $199.99, and it has Voice and 250 model memory PLUS SD card. "The Man" is coming closer and closer to having something that can compete.


mnem
I'm sorry; you'll have to check back later.

jhsa wrote:250 model memories? woo, what a waste of eeprom memory

or is it 25??

Nope... it's 250 models, Voice, Rotary Encoder, Built-inTelemetry And Wireless Trainer Mode too. Aside from being only 6 channel and the fact it "Thinks like a Spektrum", it's actually a pretty nice radio for the price.

And it's all the fault of the Open Source TX community ; without the marketing pressure placed on them by these radios, Spektrum would STILL be flogging the DX6i in exactly the same entry level position and still expecting to get $250 for that POS.

I LIKE the IDEA of having more model memory than I'll ever need; it means I don't have to delete models I'm no longer flying, just move them to the bottom of the list. That way, if I buy a model again, or one that's close enough to the same, I just find my old model, copy it, and give it a new name. Or if I want to fly a buddy's model that's the same as one I used to own... there are PLENTY of reasons to have that many model memory slots. TX manufacturers have historically been insanely stingy with model memory on computer TX, and for the last 15 years there's just plain been no need for it, other than to try and force folks to buy the $1000-2000 TX for more model memories.

Why does it need to be a "waste of eeprom memory?" FLASH RAM is CHEAP. We could solder a cheap 8-16GB MicroSD to the board and have plenty of room for every airplane a user will fly from cradle to the grave. I just bough a 16GB MicroSD for $7 RETAIL WITH SHIPPING. How much cheaper could I get them if I was buying in lots of 10-100,000?

Hence my earlier question to Mike:

mnementh wrote:Why can't we just store them on a card with a simple file structure that allows us to select a single active model directly from the card and bring it into memory in a transparent process without having to have a separate process to swap out certain ones when the active memory is full? It seems to me that we should be able to do that, and ultimately use less memory than storing 30 or 60 models in memory. Does it have to do with the structure of the arrays in which that data is stored?

But still no answer...

[EDIT]

I'm guessing the difference is whether we can just "run code" or have to develop an OS to be able to read from multiple storage sources. But... we're kindof already doing that with the mechanism for juggling models on and off the SD card; maybe it's time to abandon that way of thinking and actually make the next big leap forward.

[/EDIT]

The competition is stepping up their game, guys... we need to be aware of what they're putting out and step it up accordingly, or we're gonna be the "old and busted" instead of the "new hotness".


mnem
"Keep moving forward."

mnementh wrote:
Nope... it's 250 models, Voice, Rotary Encoder, Built-inTelemetry And Wireless Trainer Mode too. Aside from being only 6 channel and the fact it "Thinks like a Spektrum", it's actually a pretty nice radio for the price.

And it's all the fault of the Open Source TX community ; without the marketing pressure placed on them by these radios, Spektrum would STILL be flogging the DX6i in exactly the same entry level position and still expecting to get $250 for that POS.

Yeah, I think they have been watching the open source community.. At least one of big guys from spektrum is a frequent user from the open source forums at RCG..

João

mnementh wrote:Why can't we just store them on a card with a simple file structure that allows us to select a single active model directly from the card and bring it into memory in a transparent process without having to have a separate process to swap out certain ones when the active memory is full? It seems to me that we should be able to do that, and ultimately use less memory than storing 30 or 60 models in memory. Does it have to do with the structure of the arrays in which that data is stored?

Possibly more to do with history, and the order of implementation. There is also the updating required when you edit a model. The RAM copy has to be written back, currently to the EEPROM. This is done as a background task. It writes a new copy of the model, to a different area of the EEPROM, before erasing the original copy.
We have a separate EEPROM for storing the general settings and the model settings, so we wouldn't use any less memory if they were only on the SD card.
I have some slight reservations of relying on a memory card, that is just plugged into a socket.

For information, when you backup a model to the SD card, it is stored as though it is a single model in the format used by eepskye.

Mike.

Mike -

Thank you for that detailed answer. I think I understand a lot better; it sounds a lot like the way I have to manage a router while I'm working with it. You go in, make your changes, save the changes, but they don't actually get implemented until you overwrite the "running profile" with the "stored profile".

I understand having misgivings about using a plug-in card as primary storage; but we've been doing it for almost 2 decades now with Compact Flash, and in some pretty rigorous implementations. I think as long as it's ONLY the models being stored on the CF, not anything required by the firmware to run, then it's a good solution.

So the issue, more than anything, is that the form in which the model is stored is not the same as the form in which it is used, so not "useable" while in storage? It HAS to be loaded into the EEPROM, then loaded into RAM, before it can be worked with?

I'd guess the biggest issue with making a FLASH card useable in this manner would be a need for some form of CRC on the data; I have no idea how much overhead that would cost to implement.

Does eepSkye use the same format for its models as the older versions of er9x? I have a 9xV2 I'm finishing all the half-done mods on so I can sell; I'm confused about how I'll be able to bring the models on it to the new TX...


mnem
Hmmmm...

Open eepe with your 9x eeprom, open eepskye with your current eeprom. Drag the models from eepe to eepskye. Eepskye will report an error but the model (or most of it) will be copied. Make sure you check all the settings before turning the model on.. elevator and throttle could be swapped for example..

João

Ahhh... THAT's how! THANK YOU!


mnem
The mysteries of life...

Interestingly we have a Taranis user who has filled the EEPROM with just 29 models (see viewtopic.php?f=96&t=5870#p82994).
The Taranis only has 32K of EEPROM, with the data compressed so just how many models you can store depends of their complexity.
For info. the 'PRO (and SKY board) has 512K and doesn't need to compress the data, so you get the number of model memories defined.

Mike.

I never thought the taranis had only 32Kb memory.. The pro starts looking even better.. If they only put some better gimbals on it and it would be a winner..

João

+1 on that!!

jhsa wrote:I never thought the taranis had only 32Kb memory.. The pro starts looking even better.. If they only put some better gimbals on it and it would be a winner..

João

Is it possible to fit better gimbals? has anyone done this, I would be interested in hearing about this mod.

If you can find some skyboard owner to sell his/hers, you'll get your wish. It fits in a 9x case and Hitec high end sticks will fit the case. It is the forerunner of the pro board.
Unfortunately this version pro doesn't have stick upgrades. They were requested but did not appear in this price range.



Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk, small keys and a big finger.

For the first time I saw, held a 9XR this afternoon!! Honestly it looked great! Way better than in the pictures. in the sunshine the LCD was VERY sharp. Over all it felt very professional. It's owner had a doctored Orange Tx with the female connector so it easily used the internal antenna. He was very happy with his 9XR.
I had my 9X with me, so I compared the gimbal tightness. My 9X gimbals were a bit tighter, which is how I like them. He prefered his gimbals, as he liked them lighter.
Yes, the 9XR made quite a postive impression on me, now I know how the 9XR-PRO will feel as well.
My "Feelings" in conclusion: a) an OrangeRx Module that uses the internal antennal connector is MUST, for newbies in this hobby, at least.
b) Picky, hard to please users like me, are going to want their Adjustable Gimbals, please....
c) Overall, it does look and feel great.

Was anyone successful in getting HC-05 or HC-06 BT modules to work with either another Tx in trainer mode or with an Android device for telemetry recording/display?
Steve

Both work well sending data to an android device and receiving trainer from eepskye. You can for example set up your model with it live, and see the results immediately.
Trainer between 2 radios via bluetooth is still not possible though. But it will be a nice feature

João

Thats good news. I see that there is an Android app for some of the flight controller boards where things like the PID values can be set for multicopters. Is there a similar app for reading or logging telemetry from a the transmitter?
Steve