T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX module

General mods that are considered worth doing; regardless of the end firmware you use.
User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use both Flysky module and Frysky module

Post by kaos » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:03 am

Nope. unless I read your pics completely wrong. PM sent with diagram to see where I got mixed up.

Can I use this reg in case I mess the one pulled from the DX4e?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260840163287?ss ... 1439.l2649
this one is much easier to solder than the dingy one from DX4e.


User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use both Flysky module and Frysky module

Post by kaos » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:13 am

Kilrah and everyone here:
thx for all the help. Now the DSMX module is ready. I just need to put the Spectrum/DSMX lable on the the back and its done. I don't have a DSM2/x Rx to test it yet. but I did check the output voltage and it is exactly 3.3 V going into the DX4e module. this done by plugging into the Tx and turn tx on. :mrgreen:
I am sure it will work as expected, unless I got a bad module from the get go. But it is from a brand new DX4e Tx. now just waiting for the HK's orange rx.

here is a few pics: I put the 3.3v reg gnd and the cap (-) both through the 7th pin hole for easier soldering.
Thx again. Hee Hee, 1st pcb board /circuit soldering/desoldering in 37 yrs. wow! :mrgreen:
Attachments
120420-12.jpg
120420-10.jpg
120420-7.jpg

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use both Flysky module and Frysky module

Post by kaos » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Ok, final product. DSMX module for Er9X: :mrgreen:
NOw I have a full house. Flysky module, Frsky module, DSMX module. All removable, plug and play.

Any one wants to come out with a Walkera removable module? :mrgreen:
Attachments
120421-4.jpg
120421-2.jpg
120421-3.jpg

sporez
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:36 pm
Country: -
Location: New York, USA

T9X mod to use both Flysky module and Frysky module

Post by sporez » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:51 pm

How did you affix that spectrum logo to the module? Looks cool

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use both Flysky module and Frysky module

Post by kaos » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:10 pm

Peeled off the Flysky lable. which probably is not a good idea. It is a thick alu foil, once you peel it off. you can't put it back, not flat any more.
It is just a color print on a piece of card, (about the thickness of a business card) and use elmer glue. ;)

The original image is from Kilrah. It is posted earlier in this thread.

PS: not this thread, it's here: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=540
if you want one, I have a few extra, you can pm me your address I will send one to you. It cost me the same to print the whole 8 1/2 by 11 whether it is 12 label or 1 label, so I printed the whole pageful of spectrum labels at office depot with their color laser printer. :) I think it's 1.56 per page. NOw I have about 10,11 extra. :)


jonlowe
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:31 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by jonlowe » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:26 pm

I want to make sure I understand a couple of things about this mod. With this, model match will work, correct? Which will be used for bind, the old button from the FlySky portion of the module, or the trainer switch on the 9x, as though the DSMX module hardwired into the 9x?

Jon

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by kaos » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Kilrah may be a better person to answer that question. He is the original designer. But yes, the model match should work, it is part of DSM2/X. and the old button from Flysky module is used to bind other wise we don't need that button board. That is the whole idea. But correct me, Kilrah, if I am wrong.
Unfortunately I am still waiting the rx from HK. Can't tell you with 100% certainty. Let's say 99.9% certainty. :mrgreen:
What can I say, while we are scratching our heads with these stinking wires and boards, and he is down in Brasil fooling around with hot latino girls. :evil: :mrgreen: Not to mention endless supply of sparkling beers. :lol:

jonlowe
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:31 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by jonlowe » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:22 pm

Model match didn't work with the old Spektrum modules that fit JR and other compatible pre-2.4Ghz transmitters. I have a couple of those. I think model match is part of the protocol that is invoked with the special DSM settings in er9x to work with these modules. I noticed that Kilrah covered his bind button hole is his module, and I thought that might mean we use the trainer switch to bind with as when the DSMX modules are hardwired. I thought he might be just using the button board for the 5V regulator and the interface plug with the 9x. I should have a DSMX DX5e later this week to cannabaliize. I have both DSM2 and DSMX receivers, so I will be able to test things right away.

Jon

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by kaos » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:53 am

Hmm, I thought the other way. that is just a piece of paper, you can easily push that button through the paper. but I may be under wrong assumption.
let me/us know the result. I don't think I can work on this until I get my rx, which will be at least mid May. (will be out of town when rx arrives)
yes, still need to invoke DSM2 protocol in er9x and select DSM type with this module.

Kilrah, get away from the Latino girls for a min. :lol:

User avatar
Kilrah
Posts: 10228
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:56 pm
Country: Switzerland

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Kilrah » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:55 am

jonlowe wrote:I thought he might be just using the button board for the 5V regulator and the interface plug with the 9x.
Exact. Binding is of course done via the trainer switch, binding is initiated by a command the 9x software has to send to the DSM module.
Model match didn't work with the old Spektrum modules that fit JR and other compatible pre-2.4Ghz transmitters.
No, because those are quite old and only supported DSM2, while Model Match is a DSMX only feature. I don't have any DSMX receivers, so I have no idea if it works. Might be good to check the original DSM development thread/ask the developers... or test yourself :D

jonlowe
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:31 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by jonlowe » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:13 am

Thanks for the clarification.

One minor correction. DSM2 also has model match, and has had since the beginning, for transmitters that had it built in (e.g. DX-7, JR x9503, JR 9x, 12x, etc.). My JR 10x and the er9x retrofitted with the old Spektrum module don't. I think the only reason er9x has it with these DX4e/Dx5e modules is that the protocol was modified in the firmware to allow it. Pretty cool actually. Since I fly pattern (F3A style planes), I only need 5 or 6 channels anyway. I don't think DSMX is any better than FrSky's technology, but model match is a worthwhile thing to have for expensive airplanes.

Model match has saved me from my own stupidity a couple of times, and is one thing Futaba owners have envied about the Spektrum system.

Jon

User avatar
cre8tiveleo
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:13 pm
Country: -
Location: Ontario,(GTA North)
Contact:

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by cre8tiveleo » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:27 am

Kilrah wrote:
jonlowe wrote:... while Model Match is a DSMX only feature. I don't have any DSMX receivers, so I have no idea if it works. Might be good to check the original DSM development thread/ask the developers... or test yourself :D

Model match is support by any dsm2 module . Any of the atmx10 or atmx11, b ,c revisions fully support model match in dsm2 mode. I have model match in one radio that has a really old hp6dsm module in it.

:)

User avatar
Crucial
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:56 pm
Country: -
Location: SE WI, USA

T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX module

Post by Crucial » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:59 am

Model match works with my lp4 module in my 9x

User avatar
Crucial
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:56 pm
Country: -
Location: SE WI, USA

T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX module

Post by Crucial » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:03 am

If my understanding is correct the old dm9 modules don't support model match because it just grabs the ppm output and converts it to the dsm2 serial stream sending it to the rx. The other modules/rf boards are fed the serial data from the9x and include the bits for model match.

jonlowe
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:31 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by jonlowe » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:23 am

That is my understanding also. There appears to be some sort of processor or conversion chip in the DM9 module between the PPM output and the output module.

Jon

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by kaos » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:43 am

Ha, great, I don't even need to 'experiment' any more. All questions answered. Thx everybody for jumping in otherwise I will still be scratch my hair (although not much left ;) ) when I hook it up.

and Kilrah really just got away for one min exact from the Latinos. :lol:

jonlowe
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:31 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by jonlowe » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:50 pm

Another question. I did the 1k resistor trainer/PPM mod to the board inside my 9x a long time ago. Do I need to remove it or do anything special since I will be putting the DSMx inside the module? My undestanding at the time is that the 1k mod got the trainer port working properly with the FlySky/Turnigy module in place, and also slightly reduced the PPM signal level to that of what the old DM9 Spektrum module expected. At the time, there was some unproven concern that the strength of the PPM signal from the 9x could cause long term harm to the DM9 module.

The diode in this DSMx mod also appears to reduce the signal level. Is this correct? Will the combination of the 1k internal mod and the diode be too much attenuation of the signal?

Thanks,

Jon

User avatar
Crucial
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:56 pm
Country: -
Location: SE WI, USA

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Crucial » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:00 am

I didn't have a problem with the resistor mod and an lp4 module in the radio.

Camboui
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:01 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Camboui » Thu May 10, 2012 1:22 pm

jonlowe wrote:The diode in this DSMx mod also appears to reduce the signal level. Is this correct? Will the combination of the 1k internal mod and the diode be too much attenuation of the signal?
I'm wondering about the same.
If we put in series the 4.7K resistor with the diode (DSM mod) and the 1K "resistor fix", all under 3.3V, the PPM point between 4.7K and diode would never be lower than ~1.07V (U=R.I says: 2.23V for 4.7K resistor, 0.6V for diode, 0.47V for 1K resistor). That's quite high for an expected low level value near to 0. But I never read anyone complaining.
Still, wouldn't be a schotty diode a better choice than a common 1n4148 ?

User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 16582
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by MikeB » Thu May 10, 2012 1:42 pm

If you are using a recent version of er9x, you have PPMSIM available for both SIM use and trainer use. These mean the 1K trainer mod is no longer needed.

A schottky diode is really the recommended type of diode to use.

The 1.07V is too high, most devices work using 0.3 x supply voltage for a logic 0, with 3.3V this means you should be below 0.99V, and that doesn't allow for the supply being slightly below 3.3V.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!

User avatar
Crucial
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:56 pm
Country: -
Location: SE WI, USA

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Crucial » Thu May 10, 2012 1:43 pm

MikeB has stated before that a shottky would be better.

" If you have done the 'Sim mod' with a 1K resistor, and are using a 1n4001 then you may have a problem. Ideally you should use a schottky diode, they drop less voltage than a standard diode.
With your setup, you are dropping voltage in the 1K of the mod and the 1n4001. By my calculation, these could come to 1.15 volts, which means you won't have a voltage low enough to be recognised as a logic 0 by the module."

Better yet would be to eliminate the mod and use the new firmware feature PPMSIM. I've removed the sim resistor mod in all my radios and it has been working fine. after the new feature was added.

Edit: Spoken from the man himself. I guess I was a little too slow on the draw.

Camboui
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:01 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Camboui » Thu May 10, 2012 2:56 pm

So it has been discussed before. Sorry for not having seen it yet.
Thanks for clarification.

User avatar
Crucial
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:56 pm
Country: -
Location: SE WI, USA

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Crucial » Thu May 10, 2012 6:40 pm

To be clear his post was on the rcgroups thread and not here. Don't be afraid to ask questions! Most of the times the answers are worth repeating.

Camboui
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:01 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Camboui » Thu May 10, 2012 8:22 pm

OK
But... wait wait wait !

That PPMSIM software solving a hardware weakness, I don't get it.
Maybe I need a basic shema that shows all the PPM paths from CPU to output ports, which one connects where, and when they're input or output.
That migh be important to know for the guy who wants a 9x for simulator, 16ch option, buddy training (both ways), multiple RF modules installed, etc.
Is there such wiring shema somewhere ?

Also, if the PPM is shorted to ground in some circunstances, why there is no smoke then burned components ? (that's what "short" use to mean)
Are the CPU pins impedance high enough to support permanent ground short regardless output levels ?

User avatar
Crucial
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:56 pm
Country: -
Location: SE WI, USA

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Crucial » Thu May 10, 2012 8:28 pm


Camboui
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:01 pm
Country: -

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Camboui » Thu May 10, 2012 8:30 pm

Wow, that was fast !
Thanks again !

User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 16582
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by MikeB » Thu May 10, 2012 9:12 pm

There is an analogue switch device (4066) that controls the trainer port routeing. Even when 'ON' it has a resistance of about 300 ohms, enough to avoid an actual short circuit.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by kaos » Fri May 11, 2012 3:06 pm

ha, looks like my decision not to do the 1K mod is right and went for the wireless sim.
my orange rx is still in the middle of pacific, so have not tested the module yet.
Kilrah, did you have the 1k mod in your Tx with that DSMX module?

User avatar
Kilrah
Posts: 10228
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:56 pm
Country: Switzerland

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by Kilrah » Fri May 11, 2012 3:58 pm

I do have the 1K res inline, and 4k7 pullup on the DSM module. No problems at all.

User avatar
kaos
Posts: 3247
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:15 am
Country: United States

Re: T9X mod to use Flysky module, Frysky module and DSMX mod

Post by kaos » Fri May 11, 2012 4:07 pm

good to know that. In case for some reason I need to do the 1k mod in the future.


Post Reply

Return to “Electronic Mods”