Introducing: TelemetrEZ

[Gaijin]

I'll take a board for sure

[LTMNO]

great job steve... thanks for the post... ordering parts today.

[s_mack]

I have had some difficulty fitting my sp board and my Tez and my Frsky Diy in. It is a squeeze and hard to stop wires fouling gymbal movement. How about a version where sp and tez and daughter board all integrated?

It was designed with the DJT in mind, not the DIY... but I know people have done it. Make use of nylon straps or even hot glue, etc, to keep wires at bay. Gimbal interference has never been an issue for me, but I don't have the DIY. The daughter board is only a convenience thing meant for existing 2.3/tEZ owners... its not some new product, so really a "combine" there is moot (plus it really won't take up much more room at all). A combined SP/TZ version won't be in the cards unless its combined with something else as well*. Its been suggested so many times, but I have my (I believe good) reasons for not doing it that I've gone over exhaustively in the past.

* I am, however, considering a "SmartieParts Pro" which would be, effectively, a combined SP plus super-charged TZ plus Audio (voice) board. I'm working with Mike on that slowly . But its not something I can say when, or even if, it will be available. We have to sort of tread carefully due to the timing of the x9d which, like the 9xr, reveals that a large number of people are really chomping at the bit to move on to a "latest and greatest" radio. If a mass exodus of 9x owners occurs... its not going to make sense to bring out a new product. I have a feeling the x9d is going to be more expensive than people think and won't be the same class of radio... but until we know what happens there, I don't think anything concrete will happen. I'm sure you've heard about the sky9x and gruvin board availabilities coming to ends recently, and I have no doubt the thinking there was similar.

- Steven

ps. I've already got the layout done for the daughter board. Its so simple I don't think I'll bother with specific testing for it, so I can move right to production. I'll get them produced at the same time as the Rev 2.4 boards, which will bring the cost down to a minimum since they are the exact same (subset of) components that's going into that board.

[Flaps 30]

* I am, however, considering a "SmartieParts Pro" which would be, effectively, a combined SP plus super-charged TZ plus Audio (voice) board. I'm working with Mike on that slowly . But its not something I can say when, or even if, it will be available.

Wow!! That would be something I would consider...... And now the buts.

We have to sort of tread carefully due to the timing of the x9d which, like the 9xr, reveals that a large number of people are really chomping at the bit to move on to a "latest and greatest" radio. If a mass exodus of 9x owners occurs... its not going to make sense to bring out a new product..

It does look like the self generated hype concerning the Frsky 'X' range of transmitters created on many forums has virtually written off the 9X and 9xr to some extent, as being viable for the future. Added to that we have to remember that the 9X is an old product that has (IMO) come to the end of its life or it would have in the next year or so. I could be wrong of course, but it does mean that any investment made in producing new add on products for the 9X would be a risky business, and would have to be priced fairly high to ensure that production costs would be covered in a short space of time with a good profit at the end.

[jhsa]

That is the problem, you can't price them very high, or becomes cheaper to buy the frsky radio which has already everything in it. It might already be cheaper even without addons, just by doing the mods ourselves..
The 9x will more like a hobby project for people like us that like to tinker with this kind of stuff..

João

[Buckmaster]

True the 9x is beginning to show its age, but on the flip side, the latest and greatest competitor on its class (9xr) has largely proven to be not much better, more expensive, and brings on a whole new batch of problems with it. I would sort of guess the new flysky would be sort of similar to that as well. Lets face it, at this price point, how great could a new radio be? What could a manufacturer really do to it or add to it that would make it that much greater than 9x without blowing the initial cash outlay requirement out of the water? Truth be known, most people have a 9x because its a cheap way to get an entry level radio. The initial cost is low, and people with the skill to upgrade it get to build up to a great radio for a fairly small investment from time to time. I do agree with Steven that a large part of the market will die off with new radio releases, but the 9x will be around for quite a while, it just may not be lucrative to produce upgrades for.

[s_mack]

[feel free to skip this post. I got to rambling. It offers some insight into my business operation and really nothing more]

João - we simply can't say the FrSky will or won't be "cheaper" as NOBODY knows the price of that thing. I personally suspect all the hypers are in for a bit of an unwelcome surprise, price-wise. But I agree with you that I can't price for profit. I never do anyway. I have a reasonably strong background in that arena. First off, my education is in Marketing. Second, I know my business and what has worked for me in the past. I think I have a pretty good track record for setting a "correct" price for my products. It may sound counter-intuitive to some, but I do not base my prices on how much something costs me to make or (similarly) how much profit I'll make from something. Frankly, a typical customer doesn't care whether I'm making money or not (there are some that are anti-profit and want you to barely make a dime, while there are others that want to encourage a business... but most don't consider the business' point of the view at all). They don't care what it cost me... they care what it costs them, and what value that provides to them. Some carefully weigh that value vs other options while others focus on an item more individually. Its... "complex"... to say the least. What I try to do is put myself in my customers' shoes and consider what price I would be satisfied with and consider "good value". I try to come up with that price without paying any attention at all to my bottom line, project costs, how fast my kid keeps needing new shoes, etc. When I've come up with that price... then, and only then, do I work backwards and determine if the project is of value to me as a business.

In other words, there have been times in the past where I've determined the "right price" for my widget is, say, $50 and I look and my cost is $55. Do I raise the price? No, that's where I have to be disciplined and either find a way to lower my costs or abandon the idea and move on. On the flip side, I had a product recently that I determined would sell well at around $500 (and I was right!) and it turned out my total costs including all R&D, etc, was only $77 per unit. Did I lower my price? Why would I? I take my wins as well as my losses.

Of course there are always other factors to consider. Competition may move in and start a price war... a product may get "boring" and customers move on mysteriously like bee colonies that suddenly disappear... there's a lot of guesswork involved too But mostly its experience, knowing my customers and my own abilities and limitations... and, above all, providing as good customer service as I possibly can. That seems to keep a lot of customers coming back!

Anyway, sorry for (yet another) book When I get rambling, its hard to stop me.

- Steven

[Kilrah]

João - we simply can't say the FrSky will or won't be "cheaper" as NOBODY knows the price of that thing. I personally suspect all the hypers are in for a bit of an unwelcome surprise, price-wise.

I don't think so. It's been said from the start that it was not intended to compete with the $50 radios, we already have enough of these.
See it as an equivalent of a 9X, plus a Sky9x board, plus a DJT. When you add everything you're already at about $180, and you still need to get your hands in to open the radio, replace the board, and wire the telemetry connections.

[s_mack]

I'm not sure what your point is. "I don't think so" says you're disagreeing with me... but now let's say the x9d has a $450 price tag, then what? Point is... its all speculation because we don't know what the price is. My feeling is that it will be higher than people are expecting. OK I don't think it'll be $450 kind of high... but you state $180 like that's higher than its price and you just don't know. None of us do. Before we go too far down this line of discussion, let's halt it now. This thread is not about the x9d or any other radio other than the 9x and we don't need yet another rumor mill.

[s_mack]

Here's the mockup, front and back... maybe you guys can help me name this thing lol.

Note that all the components are on the bottom. Cheaper to have them all on one side, and the stacking connectors (that mate with ISP1 and ISP2) have to be there. So what you'll see once installed is basically a blank board. Like I said before, you'll still have to remove the 4 FETS and solder 2 wires plus the two (included) 10 pin headers to the SP board... but effectively you'd end up with a Rev 2.4 board for only a few bucks and a bit of effort.

- Steven

[Buckmaster]

Sorry for skewing the discussion to an off topic direction, this is supposed to be about TelemetrEZ, not about guessing what the next radio to be released might cost or include etc....

Back on topic...... Geeze Steven, you work fast! I kind of like the "bridgification device thingy" (I think I'd leave that silkscreened on there ). Maybe something like "Telebridge"or smartiebridge

[s_mack]

Well, I like both your suggestions. So time for a vote:

"bridgification device thingy" or "Telebridge"or "SmartieBridge"? (I capitalized the S&B to be more inline with my branding)

[gbmarsh]

Well, I like both your suggestions. So time for a vote:

"bridgification device thingy" or "Telebridge"or "SmartieBridge"? (I capitalized the S&B to be more inline with my branding)

I really like "bridgification device thingy" and I'll be ordering one and a TelemetrEZ as soon as the new board is available.

OOOPS!! Meant to ad that the above about naming was a joke, I think SmartieBridge fits nicely

Cheers,
Geoff

[Charliechan]

Put me down for two boards, one for each of my installations.

[s_mack]

I've got 100 of them in production along with the 1000 unit batch of Rev 2.4 SP boards.

Unfortunately they were more expensive than I thought they'd be, considering how simple they are and that 100% of the components are also on the new SP boards so we're getting >1000 unit pricing (on the components).... but it is what it is. Much of the cost is simply "setup". So I can't do the $2-$4 I said before. It will be $6. I'm hoping that's OK with you guys.

- Steven

[Rob Thomson]

No issue price wise from me

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[gbmarsh]

The price is fine... finger poised on order button

[Buckmaster]

Same here in price, no issues..... I'll be looking for 2 boards as soon as they are available.

[s_mack]

Thanks for the feedback/support guys. I appreciate it.

[Redbrickman]

Guys,

Don't be too mad at me guys, but at the risk of getting toasted I'd like some help. I was following this thread when it first started but due to work and other issues I have lost track of several things, including adding my upgraded TelemetrEZ and just need to get some basic advice.

I have the following:

SM board installed - Companion 9x also installed
TelemetrEZ not installed
FRkSky DJT
DBRII Receivers

I am interested in the new daughter board but just want to ask what my best route is to a fully functioning telemetry set up?
I assume with the daughter board I don't have to buy a USB programmer or have I got completely lost.

Thanks.

[s_mack]

You don't need the daughter board necessarily. You have everything you need already. The issue is the firmware that comes with the TelemetrEZ... there have been updates since production. None of them are absolutely necessary for basic telemetry use. The biggest "problem" is that many 9x's will experience a 15 second delay upon power-up where neither the telemetry nor the Ail_dr and Tcut switches will work. But after 15 seconds, all is fine. If (and only if) you have a Rev 2.3 (not earlier!), the daughter board will allow you, with minimal work, to get the same benefit as a 2.4. Older versions won't be able to make use of the daughter board.


So now to directly answer your question: Yes, provided you have a Rev 2.3 SP board, you don't have to have a USB programmer to update the TelemetrEZ. But, you don't even need that if you are OK with the default firmware, which fully supports basic telemetry but *may* have a 15 second delay upon startup.

Oh, you'll also have to re-flash your Open9x / er9x firmware to a version specifically supporting TelemetrEZ.

- Steven

[MikeB]

To clarify which er9x firmware you need, the TelemetrEZ board was supported in the FrSky version from r769 (11 Aug 2012). It is automatically detected, there are no settings needed.

Mike.

[Redbrickman]

Thanks to you both for guidance.

I believe my board is older so daughter board not an option. Will probably get a USB and reflash the TMZ but as you point out Steve it's not a big issue and I have enough patience to wait on boot up.

Must make a start or my brain will lose the impetus again and I'll languish into another period of non activity

[s_mack]

probably the best deal I've seen on a simple usbasp is either HobbyKing's (from China) or 9xrprogrammer's (from USA)

- Steven

[ReSt]

If you can wait for the slow boat

http://www.ebay.de/itm/USBASP-USBISP-AV ... 5d35a77097

Reinhard

[Redbrickman]

Thanks for the tip. I have just ordered one from the Flea BAy in UK at slightly more but should be here in a couple of days.

[LTMNO]

Put me down for one when they are ready as well.

[Redbrickman]

Guys, the USBASP has arrived, but since ordering I have been going round in circles reading all the problems and solutions when using this programmer. I understand that some need to be modified before attempting to program the 9X but do I need to do anything before updating the TelemetrEZ?

A pointer to a dummies guide with the firmware details and procedure for upgrading the TelemetrEZ would be appreciated.

[gohsthb]

Shouldn't need to do anything. Leave the Tx off when update the Tez. The Tez should be powered directly by the programmer. So with Tx off plug in programmer, when programmer is powered the LED on the Tez should blink several times. Then program the Tez, disconnect the programmer. Updating should then be complete.
-Gohst

[Redbrickman]

Gohst thanks for info, now a very basic question - I have checked that it appears on my Mac and all seems OK.

I will add the TEZ to the radio first and test it before re-flashing, but what way to reflash, do I need software or is it a case of downloading the correct file and flashing from a command line on the MAC?