We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

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gruvin
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We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

RESOLVED: We found a relatively simple way to get the same results, without the need for FULL. Details in future post, below.

Howdy

Some time ago, back in the '9X radio opentx firmware days as it were, someone thought it wise to remove FULL as a source from the mixer, in spite of my protests. Well, it made enough sense at the time, given only two-position switches -- even though some folks had installed multi position switches.

However, now we have the Taranis with all its THREE-position switches. The lack of a FULL source is now a real problem, because there's no way to get only -100 or +100 out of a SINGLE mixer line, using a switch, while avoiding a zero from the switch's middle position.

For clarity, the source named MAX supplies only 0 or +100, depending on a switch state. The source named FULL used to supply only -100 or +100. But it's no longer available.

One can of course throw two MAX mixer lines at it, one with -100 weight and one with +100 and each with opposite switch conditionals, say !SD^ and SD^. But this means doubling the number of lines required, which gets worse when you want one switch to affect two or more channels -- or even two channels and two switches, actually -- four lines instead of two. For the former case, one can add an intermediary mixer channel, with the two MAX lines etc and use that channel's output as a source for those that rely on that single switch. But this is still painful and is especially so if one has more than one switch involved.

So ... am I missing something or is this actually a good argument to have FULL reinstated on the Taranis? Obviously, I think it is. I never wanted it taken out in the first place, you know. ;-) *smiles*

Cheers.

EDIT: Offset -100 with weight +200 does not work, because the mixer line is ignored entirely if the switch state is not true.
Last edited by gruvin on Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

I may have found a solution, of sorts. I'm not sure it it will work in all cases I would need, but it is at the moment.

Example solution as follows ...

MIXER -- CH8 Source:MAX Weight:-100, Switch:SD^
SERVOS -- CH8 Subtrim:+100

This works if all you need is the servo (or PPM output) to swing from -100 to +100. It is slightly more convenient than having two mixer lines when using Companion. But so is copy/paste to just make two lines. It's a real pain on the TX itself though, because it takes forever to get the sub-trim up to +100.0, whereas one can copy a mixer line much quicker.
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Kilrah
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by Kilrah »

One solution is to define an input with the switch as source and desired behavior, then use that source in the mixer. That's what they're for :)
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by MikeB »

I haven't been using openTx 2.x, but for r2940 you could define a custom switch as:
CS1: AND !SA^ !SA^
then just use CS1 as the mixer source.

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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

Kilrah wrote:One solution is to define an input with the switch as source and desired behavior, then use that source in the mixer. That's what they're for :)
Someone didn't actually read my post (or I wasn't clear) ;-) That does not work as required with 3-position switches.
Last edited by gruvin on Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

MikeB wrote:I haven't been using openTx 2.x, but for r2940 you could define a custom switch as:
CS1: AND !SA^ !SA^
then just use CS1 as the mixer source.

Mike.
Ah. That may well work.Thanks.

EDIT: Alas, "LOGICAL SWITCHES" (custom switches) are not available as sources on the Taranis.

If they were, there would still have to be an assumption that "off" = -100 and "on" = +100, which I think is a bit of a stretch, given that "off" could just as well = zero, etc.

All in all then, it seems that having FULL back as a source, as Thomas (TH9X) originally design it, would be a nice thing. See the simple offset solution offered by @Kilah, below. It works for me and is perfectly reasonable and simple to do, IMO. Yay \o/
Last edited by gruvin on Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by Kilrah »

gruvin wrote: Someone didn't actually read my post (or I wasn't clear) ;-) That does not work as required with 3-position switches.
It does, just need to set the offset in the input.
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

Kilrah wrote:
gruvin wrote: Someone didn't actually read my post (or I wasn't clear) ;-) That does not work as required with 3-position switches.
It does, just need to set the offset in the input.
No, it doesn't.

EDIT: Ah! Yes it DOES. Sorry. Well there it is then. A perfectly reasonable solution.

Set source to a 3-pos switch. Set offset to -100 (or weight -100 and offset +100 for the opposite switch sense, I suppose) and it works exactly as I wanted.
Last edited by gruvin on Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by Kilrah »

Hmm indeed, gives 0 or 100.

A new source might indeed make sense for the 3-pos switches. Need to find a clean way to do it then.
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

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Kilrah wrote:Hmm indeed, gives 0 or 100.

A new source might indeed make sense for the 3-pos switches. Need to find a clean way to do it then.
Oh ... that's interesting. I just edited my reply above to say ...
Ah! Yes it DOES. Sorry. Well there it is then. A perfectly reasonable solution.

Set source to a 3-pos switch. Set offset to -100 (or weight -100 and offset +100 for the opposite switch sense, I suppose) and it works exactly as I wanted.

... meaning outputs of ONLY -100 and +100.

Sorry for causing confusion. Would you like to test again, as described above and and confirm?
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by Kilrah »

Sorry, yes it works indeed... I had checked on the radio yesterday before writing, now you said "it didn't work" I checked on the simulator but forgot to change the sign.

Issue closed then :)
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Re: We need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

Right!

I did however forget to say that one needs to set weight to +200 (with offset -100). Otherwise we only get -100 and 0, still. In summary then, to force a three position switch to only ever output -100 or +100, essentially ignoring its centre value ...

[tab=30]Source: SB (for example)
[tab=30]Weight: 200
[tab=30]Offset: -100

It's a little unintuitive at first glance. The mixer output values end up being -200, +100 and +200. But the servo limits take effect to produce the end result of only -100 and +100, with effectively no middle position, which is what I needed. There is of course one redundant switch position. But that's OK.

This is the easiest method and I think preferable to bringing "FULL" back, if for no other reason than its inherent,"always compute this mixer line, even if its switch is not valid" weirdnesses (and inefficiency).

Thanks to all who pitched in. We got there in the end, in spite of my infamous fumbling about. :-P
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Re: We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by jhsa »

Pardon my ignorance if I'm going to say something stupid, but couldn't you just program a curve with the middle point and one of the ends at 100%, or -100% depending on what you want?
Or didn't I understand what is required here? ?
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Re: We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

jhsa wrote:Pardon my ignorance if I'm going to say something stupid, but couldn't you just program a curve with the middle point and one of the ends at 100%, or -100% depending on what you want?
Or didn't I understand what is required here? ?
João
Sure. I think that would work, too. Thanks for the suggestion. :-)

I did consider a custom curve, early on. But I wanted the solution to be the most simple, least processing power and memory required as possible. I was also biased by the way we used to achieve this, using the old "FULL" source, way back when. So I expected to be able to find a solution using only a standard mixer line, as we now have.
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Re: We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by jhsa »

I find a curve way easier to visualize though. we can actually see what is happening..

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Re: We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

Good point. Have to admit, I did struggle when I wanted to invert the switch sense. A curve like that would have been painless. You may have converted me! ;-)
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Re: We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by jhsa »

The good thing is that there is more than one way of achieving what we want to.. :)
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Re: We [don't] need FULL back in the mixer

Post by gruvin »

:-)

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