Is the Taranis for everyone

Hardware help and support for the FrSky Taranis
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 18124
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Is the Taranis for everyone

Post by jhsa » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:41 pm

Are we trying to find excuses not to bother learning to work with the radio? ;) I got the feeling that what we want is to have a microphone connected to the radio and tell it to program itself. :)
I guess that a good start should be improving the wizard. It already asks what kind of model you want to program. If we would be able to change weight, rates, subtrims, etc, then it is more or less what we have been talking about. The radio does the job. It asks questions and you just choose the correct option. I think it is already half way there ;) :)

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

fburden
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:24 pm
Country: -

Keep improving the Wizard

Post by fburden » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:43 pm

Improving the Wizard, has some merit, but ....

Sounds like a good candidate to be a "memory hog", and endless "scope creep".

Also, getting a wizard to make modifications to an existing model, can get really complex. In the end, you'll have to get down and dirty and make the changes "manually".
The wizard becomes a beast of it's own, with it's own cumbersome learning curve.

As a new user, I'd rather take template, or copy one of my own models, and make my own tweaks to it, that's the real power of this software.

Fine if you want to go in this direction, but you'll end up having to dedicate a team of developers and testers just and only for the wizard for years.
IMHO.

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 18124
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Is the Taranis for everyone

Post by jhsa » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:11 am

I agree with you. Just trying to think of other options.. I have tried the wizard and it is very good. But I think that very often people don't know what they are doing. Then it is very easy to blame the firmware or the radio. If I want to setup a plane but don't know how a plane works, then no radio can help me ;)
I see that many posts here in our forum start with:
-I'm a completely newbie...
-It's my first computer radio.....
- I just started...

Etc etc..

We have to learn how to use our tools.. if we buy a car but never learn to drive it are we going to blame the people that designed the car because they didn't make it user friendly? No, we go to a school, get the manuals, and learn :)

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
gruvin
9x Developer
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:02 pm
Country: New Zealand
Location: Auckland
Contact:

Re: Is the Taranis for everyone

Post by gruvin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:14 am

I don't like the wizard idea -- especially not on the radio itself.

[rant]
I don't see any reason why people can't just read a screen from left to right, top to bottom, without having to wear out their Next buttons. Microsoft invented Wizards. Why on Earth did others copy? *sigh* But I digress.
[/rant]

Templates are a one shot affair as well and really no different to just copying an existing model, assuming there is one. They could be found easily enough online in any case.

I've thought about it more. To my mind, if there's ever going to be something to make using the radio itself easier for the faint hearted, then it's going to have to be a full menu structure, which emulates something like a JR or Futaba. It should not replace the existing system as that would just be silly. It needs to be an optional addition -- and selectable on a model by model basis, probably with the option to then ditch it as a one-way trip, once a model is set up. Then it would have to be replicated in Companion, so as to not allow manual twiddling behind the scenes for model that use it, because that would break it.

So, the more I think about it, the more it just seems like too much work, too much memory usage and too little gain. Oh well.

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

fburden
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:24 pm
Country: -

eepskye>arduino or bluetooth>Tx>Plane for testing new setups

Post by fburden » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:38 am

I like what jhsa has been testing, and directly testing from eepskye and seeing the actual servo movements in 'real-time'.

Let Gruvin and the Model Wizard go wild with a new simplified menu structure, and lots complex mixing that can be done by the Model Wizards,
but not on the TX firmware, only on eepsky or companion!!! This takes the load off the Tx and puts it on the PC.
This lets everyone test out the new fangled wizards and gruvin simplied menus on the PC software first.

Make a simple way of connecting to the Tx via BT or something as simple as plugging into the trainer port!! - for the real-time testing.
Jhsa, already has a working demo of this.

I would love to plug in my unmodded Tx to my computer attached to my 52inch widescreen and show them in real time my Plane's new mixes and brand new TX!!

jhsa wrote:
gruvin wrote:
As another probably uncommon, differing use example; I find using Companion more difficult than programming on the radio directly. I know people think that's crazy.


I don't think it is crazy, I think we are transmitting on the same frequency here ;) Keep on reading :)
Companion is great. But for me, it's too abstract. I like to see my real servos working immediately, as I change things. I certainly do use Companion to take backups and do firmware upgrades though. Oh and I recently discovered copy/pasting between models and mixer lines, which is super cool. (Just wish it dynamically updated mixer sources as well, somehow.)
Have a look at this.. It's not Companion. It is eepskye. I am using an arduino board (very simple, just 2 wires soldered to it) to translate serial to PPM.. On more recent radios like the 9XR Pro I use the bluetooth connection.
You can try it with your 9x (G9X) radio. Get the arduino code from here:

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=5476&p=77982#p77880

Just create a new model as trainer, enable extended limits, set the limits to -125/+125, and set the weight on the mixer to 80%
Or you can set the trainer input to 80% on the trainer menu.. Alternatively you can on the mixer do something like:

CH1 80% Rud
R 80% PPM1 Switch (RUD)

CH2 80% Ele
R 80% PPM2 Switch (RUD)

CH3 -100% MAX
R 80% PPM3 Switch (RUD) (On your throttle channel do this.. when trainer is disconnected the channel
will be pulled to minimum/idle)

CH4 80% Ail
R 80% PPM4 Switch (RUD)

CH5....... Just do thge same for the 8 channels.. This configuration is for the throttle on channel 3 if you use another order just change the programming on the throttle channel. If you remove your props, which you should, you can even program all the channels the same.. That little change is just for safety.
Ok, here is a video of me using it.. The problem of the servos being slow on the video was due to a wrong baudrate I think.. corrected now :)
Again, big thanks to Mbanzi that originally started doing this for companion but I guess the dev team apparently never had interest on this project ;), and to Mike a big thank you for implementing it on eepskye and eepe..
I know, I'm way OFF TOPIC.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
João

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmvIIV9 ... e=youtu.be


fburden
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:24 pm
Country: -

eepskye>arduino or bluetooth>Tx>Plane for testing new setups

Post by fburden » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:39 am

I like what jhsa has been testing, and directly testing from eepskye and seeing the actual servo movements in 'real-time'.

Let Gruvin and the Model Wizard go wild with a new simplified menu structure, and lots complex mixing that can be done by the Model Wizards,
but not on the TX firmware, only on eepsky or companion!!! This takes the load off the Tx and puts it on the PC.
This lets everyone test out the new fangled wizards and gruvin simplied menus on the PC software first.

Make a simple way of connecting to the Tx via BT or something as simple as plugging into the trainer port!! - for the real-time testing.
Jhsa, already has a working demo of this.

I would love to plug in my unmodded Tx to my computer attached to my 52inch widescreen and show them in real time my Plane's new mixes and brand new TX!!

jhsa wrote:
gruvin wrote:
As another probably uncommon, differing use example; I find using Companion more difficult than programming on the radio directly. I know people think that's crazy.


I don't think it is crazy, I think we are transmitting on the same frequency here ;) Keep on reading :)
Companion is great. But for me, it's too abstract. I like to see my real servos working immediately, as I change things. I certainly do use Companion to take backups and do firmware upgrades though. Oh and I recently discovered copy/pasting between models and mixer lines, which is super cool. (Just wish it dynamically updated mixer sources as well, somehow.)
Have a look at this.. It's not Companion. It is eepskye. I am using an arduino board (very simple, just 2 wires soldered to it) to translate serial to PPM.. On more recent radios like the 9XR Pro I use the bluetooth connection.
You can try it with your 9x (G9X) radio. Get the arduino code from here:

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=5476&p=77982#p77880

Just create a new model as trainer, enable extended limits, set the limits to -125/+125, and set the weight on the mixer to 80%
Or you can set the trainer input to 80% on the trainer menu.. Alternatively you can on the mixer do something like:

CH1 80% Rud
R 80% PPM1 Switch (RUD)

CH2 80% Ele
R 80% PPM2 Switch (RUD)

CH3 -100% MAX
R 80% PPM3 Switch (RUD) (On your throttle channel do this.. when trainer is disconnected the channel
will be pulled to minimum/idle)

CH4 80% Ail
R 80% PPM4 Switch (RUD)

CH5....... Just do thge same for the 8 channels.. This configuration is for the throttle on channel 3 if you use another order just change the programming on the throttle channel. If you remove your props, which you should, you can even program all the channels the same.. That little change is just for safety.
Ok, here is a video of me using it.. The problem of the servos being slow on the video was due to a wrong baudrate I think.. corrected now :)
Again, big thanks to Mbanzi that originally started doing this for companion but I guess the dev team apparently never had interest on this project ;), and to Mike a big thank you for implementing it on eepskye and eepe..
I know, I'm way OFF TOPIC.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
João

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmvIIV9 ... e=youtu.be

User avatar
Rob Thomson
Site Admin
Posts: 4537
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:34 am
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Albury, Guildford
Contact:

Re: Is the Taranis for everyone

Post by Rob Thomson » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:15 am

Yup. A real time companion to trainwr connection woild be great. Ita much easier to program models when you can see whats happening to the surfaces!
Slope Soaring, FPV, and pretty much anything 'high tech'
...........if you think it should be in the wiki.. ask me for wiki access, then go add it!

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 18124
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Is the Taranis for everyone

Post by jhsa » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:10 am

Er9x and ersky9x has the feature since a while. Even if you are using openTx you can try it. Just download eepe that comes with eepskye inside, get an arduino, a pro mini for example that is cheap, connect 2 wires to it, solder a trainer plug to the wire, (easy enough? ;) ), connect it to the computer via an ftdi adapter ( if your arduino has USB you don't need this I think), configure your radio to receive a trainer signal (I can post an exa.ple model later on tbe project's thread if I didn't do it already), start eepeskye or eepe, select com port and hit connect turn trainer on and turn model on.. ah program a throttle cut on your trainer radio and on your eepe model before you connect.. And the most important of all. REMOVE ALL PROPELLERS.. We don't configure models with props on anyway, or we shouldn't :)

João

Forgot to say that on the tainer radio you have to enable extended limits, set the limits to 125%/-125%, and set the weight to 80%.
Alternatively plug the arduino to an RF module, bind the receiver to it and you're good to go. The arduino has a capability to disconnect tbe power from the module on serial signal loss but I still didn't test it as I was using the radio. Will do that in the next few days.. some little extra circuitry might be need like a FET transistor or a relay to switch the power to the RF module.. but easy to build.
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 18124
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Is the Taranis for everyone

Post by jhsa » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:23 am

Oh, also forgot to say, on eepe/eepskye it is possible to edit the models while the simulator is on. No need to close it to make changes. That means the serial will be always connected..
Now I'm way off topic. We could move this discussiom to the right thread if you guys have interest in this..
João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

Post Reply

Return to “FrSky Taranis radio”