Haptic on Early Taranis

Hardware help and support for the FrSky Taranis
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MikeB
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Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by MikeB » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:39 pm

Having been sent a prototype Haptic (mechanically it doesn't fit very well), I've just modified my pre-production Taranis to include it. A few quick edits to ersky9x for Taranis, and it actually vibrates on command!
This Tx main board should be similar to the earlier A series Taranis.
Here's where I wired the Haptic.
On the main board you can see an orange wire soldered to a connection on the audio daughter board, this is the control signal.
Hap_Main.jpg
Main Board signal connection
On the back board, the red wire is VCC (+3.3V) and the black wire is ground.
Hap_Back.jpg
Back Board power and ground
I haven't shown the haptic itself as mechanically it looks and mounts differently and I don't want to confuse.

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Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Fri May 02, 2014 11:51 pm

Mike, for my rev A I'm going to make my own haptic circuit and use several pancake motors I've also used for my other haptic mods. Er9x and skyboard. I have many!

I'd like you're opinion and help.
My motors may draw 80Ma @4.5v each if I remember.
I'm concerned about hanging anything more on the 3.3v regulator so I'm thinking of using my own feed from the main battery voltage. I'm also concerned about messing up the normal shut down if I choose the wrong place. On your board do you know of a good place for full switched tx voltage and I could see if it matches the A.

Next is the circuit. For er9x I used a 2n3904 and for the M64 you recommended something like 1 or 2.2k in the base circuit. What about for this CPU?

Next
If I use a BS170 or 2N7000 I wouldn't need a series resistor.
Any preference for a transistor or Fet circuit?

Your very busy with all your projects and I don't think the haptic FW update is out yet so no big hurry. That is unless I want to try the FW I think you've ported for the Taranis. My revA could give it a try.
Thanks
SM

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by MikeB » Sat May 03, 2014 8:05 am

The main board 3.3V regulator is switch mode, and the chip is rated at 0.5A. Given the lower voltage, your haptic will probably take less current than 80mA, more like 50mA. I would think this would be OK.

The FrSky supplied motor runs off the 3.3V rail OK.

I don't think bipolar of FET makes a lot of difference, just the one needs the extra resistor.

You can, of course, back up the firmware and EEPROM of your rev A Tx and try mine. You can always put the original back.
I have a compiled version of openTx, r2940, that includes the bootloader. If you put "ersky9x for Taranis" on you will get the bootloader, so if you have the bootloader version of openTx, it is even easier to switch between the two.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ImRich » Sun May 04, 2014 9:52 pm

FYI, Helibatics seem to have the new FrSky haptic board in stock.

Which openTX firmware version will support this option?

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by Kilrah » Sun May 04, 2014 10:13 pm

The upcoming V2.0.


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Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed May 07, 2014 1:14 am

Mike or anyone. I can use some help on my revA. I don't have the same board as the beta pix posted. I'm missing the IC U1.
I can't quite make out the used. I think it's labeled SD.
I'm assuming this is an input but an output from the CPU? so it's still active without U1.

I think the _SD pad goes to pin 78 on the STM32.

I'm cautious about using my ohm meter to trace it back to the CPU pin I think it comes from. Any help would be appreciated.
My board
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399425027.343928.jpg
My haptic board. I'm using a BS170 FET.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399425084.110415.jpg
Is mounts with the right stick outer trim tab screw. It'll have a servo connector set of wires so I can unplug all boards to separate case halves or remove the main board.



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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by Kilrah » Wed May 07, 2014 7:12 am

Just solder the wire at the same place. The board is the same, the chip is simply not fitted in production version as it wasn't used.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed May 07, 2014 12:31 pm

Thanks Kilrah. I just wanted to be careful.
I have several haptic boards ordered but decided to try my own for my rev A board. If it works ok I'll keep it.
I'm hoping the mounting area I chose will transfer enough vibration to the case. I still have the pancake motors as a backup plan.



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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed May 07, 2014 1:02 pm

I'm going to use the Gnd, +3.3v, and _SD pads on the audio board for my haptic connector. Keeps it all on the front case half.


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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by heliphil » Fri May 09, 2014 10:22 am

Showmaster - can you give me details of the homemade board you used please

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Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Fri May 09, 2014 2:45 pm

For the rev A I'm using the the pads on the audio board shown in MikeB, Scott's, and Kilrah's links. Unfortunately no stm32 pin was mentioned so I hope I've got the correct pads. I did use the VCC and Gnd pads on the rev A audio board for power. The FET Gate goes to what I read as the 3_SD pad on the audio board. I'll find out after I load a FW that supports the haptic option.

I added a short servo connector cable to the audio board, just long enough to tuck it under the main board connectors and in the small bottom front case gap. The haptic board mounts with the outside aileron trim tab screw. The haptic board had a mating servo cable on it long enough to mate with the audio board connector. Easy to mount and remove.

About the circuit if you're using it on a B board. You'll use the B board connections and pretty much make your board like the posted pictures.

I used a FET BS 170 or 2N7000 ( different pinouts) to kiss. No resistor needed in the gate, good for 300-500ma.
You could also use a NPN transistor like a 2n3904 or 2222. You'll want to use a base resistor of 1k-2.2k.
The motor will go in the collector and the emitter to ground.
My haptic motor came from a local electronics surplus store, ALL Electronics. I also have some pancake motors but decided to duplicate the Frsky design to give it a try.

My circuit. Sorry it's just a quick drawing.

Update 5/12/14, I added a 10K from the Gate to Source (ground) on my circuit. This pull down was to make sure the Gate doesn't float. I found that without an actual haptic FW loaded, stray contact with the signal lead would trigger the haptic due to the high Fet input resistance. I'm sure stray rf would also trigger it. With an actual haptic FW loaded the signal lead should be pulled to ground when not triggering.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399646177.208686.jpg
Here is a transistor version I found. It actually uses the pancake motor.
MikeB posted that the 3.3v regulator is a switcher and can handle another 40 Ma safely so watch the motor current draw. These motors on 3.3v are around 40 Ma for one.

Here is a typical bipolar circuit. The 33 ohm resistor is there to limit the current. It's value you'll have to decide on to limit the motor current of needed.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399646591.474517.jpg
BS 170
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399646649.057143.jpg

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Sat May 10, 2014 10:34 pm

As a follow up.
Thanks to MikeB for the following info that worked for me. It should apply to any Taranis board version.

The haptic board or homemade circuit input, should ultimately end up connected to pin 80 of the stm32 100 pin package. This is port C bit 12, labeled PC12 on the stm32.
This pin can take different board paths due to board changes, but it all starts with pin 80 so just trace it out if in doubt.




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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by mpjf01 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:48 am

I installed the standard FRSKY motor in accordance with the instructions post 1. When I activate the haptic the motor spins, quite slowly I think and there is no discernible vibration, just a faint noise. I tried all settings 0-3. Is there anything else I have to do?

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:24 pm

The haptic motor should have 3.3v as its source. Check that. Also if you disconnect the input lead and connect it to the haptic vcc board input, that should bias the transistor full on and your motor should spin up full.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by mpjf01 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:11 am

The voltage between Vcc and ground is 3.1v, not 3.3. How would I change this?

I increased the time to 30s, the maximum. No matter what time I select the motor only runs slowly for a couple of seconds. I have two separate FRSKY haptic boards and motors and have tried both and both act in the same way.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:43 am

mpjf01 wrote:The voltage between Vcc and ground is 3.1v, not 3.3. How would I change this?

I increased the time to 30s, the maximum. No matter what time I select the motor only runs slowly for a couple of seconds. I have two separate FRSKY haptic boards and motors and have tried both and both act in the same way.
3-3.3 v close enough.
At this point you could verify it's not the board. One option is to disconnect the haptic board signal input wire from Taranis signal wire. With the Taranis power on, connect the haptic boards signal input to the VCC +3v connection. This will bias the haptic transistor full on and your motor should run at full speed until you break the connection.
Do this in your Taranis at your own risk.
Another option is to power just the haptic board on the bench with 3 volts. two AA batteries in series. Again, connecting the signal input pad to the + battery input will make the motor run full speed.
If this works, it's either your Taranis wiring points or a menu setting. I'm not able to post a switch mix to try but hopefully someone will. The idea is to program a switch you throw to trigger the haptic.
What's missing from the Frsky haptic DIY install info is a downloadable haptic text mix.
Be sure to use the latest FW 2.0 -2.04.
I'm replying too late tonight to be of more help. I'll try and sort out a test mix tomorrow if one isn't posted.
I need to try it myself. To be honest, I loaded ersky9x FW for the Taranis to test my haptic install. I just reloaded opentx 2.04 today in my rev B Taranis to try it. It'll take a bit to rethink the programming.
Last request is good pictures of your wiring points to QC your hookups.
SM


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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by mpjf01 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:19 am

I asked the same question on RCG. it seems I am not alone, there are at least 2 others with unsuccessful installs. There may be two different issues judging by the comments there. Firstly, the observation that the motors do not respond in accord with the timings and (strength?) parameters in the firmware, and secondly, even at full power the FRSKY motors may be incapable of being felt by the user. I'm not really sure whether anyone knows the true position, if they do they haven't shared that information yet.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by Kilrah » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:27 am

We haven't received upgrade kits, so were never able to test. We've gone from reports by users, and several said it was fine.

We do have prototype Plus hardware, and the motor which is apparently the same is plenty strong. So if you can't feel it, it's not running.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by mpjf01 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:37 am

The motor is running, you can see it (with the radio back off obviously). Just not fast enough I suspect. And as it is receiving the (apparently) correct power levels it may be that the reason for the too slow speed and the unresponsiveness to parameter change could be in the firmware.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by mpjf01 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:04 am

Doing the test requested above (with the spare haptic unit I have not in the radio with 3v from 2 AA batteries) the motor spins much faster than it does when installed in the radio and actually vibrates.

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by MikeB » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:09 am

Is the voltage of 3.1V you mention with the motor running? If not, what is the voltage when it is running?

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by mpjf01 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:03 pm

The voltage doesn't change with motor running (varies up and down by 0.1v)

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Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:36 pm

Please post a picture showing your install wiring points. It does start to look like the boards not getting the correct drive input. What's needed is for us to have the same wiring, same FW, and the same haptic test mix.
I can test it on my B if someone can post a good test mix for opentx that uses a sw to trigger the haptic.
I'm away until later today to try it myself.

A few tips for when this is fixed. The motors held in with a zip tie and that can loosen up. A dab of hot glue or other thick glue on the motor case and board will secure the motor.
For Kilrah and Mike, based on the max safe load on the 3v regulator, what's a guess for the max current draw we can use for a motor? With the audio playing BG music, the back light on, the rf module power, and the haptic running, could we brown out the stock regulator?
I'm thinking of a DIY haptic board with its own regulator and a larger motor for anyone wanting more shaking going on.
We've already made speaker changes to solve some audio complaints , why not for the haptic board? If Frsky is interested in selling these options, I'm sure many would buy rather then build.
Let's face it, Frsky now has thousands of new beta testers helping improve their product. Win win.
A better motor upgrade that doesn't tax the regulator would be a quick DIY fix.
I made one for my A board as a test and it does shake stronger. I used a surplus cell motor. I plan to add a dedicated regulator in the future. It does draw 60ma.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1403706950.750558.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1403706825.287273.jpg


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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by MikeB » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:57 pm

The switch mode regulator is rated at 0.5A (TPS5401).

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:57 pm

So with load BG music, BL on, the haptic motor current draw is limited.
I measure that Taranis draws about 105 Ma, 116ma with the BL on. With a loud audio announce I read 126ma on my DVM. I'm sure the peak current it higher.
Anyone good at fuzzy math to determine the max haptic current that's safe allowing sufficient regulator headroom? Switch mode regulators I understand are more forgiving.
Then I can shop for a good replacement motor upgrade. A new board with its own regulator for larger motors, would be a good product for someone to sell.
There's been a few great accessory products designed and sold as after market products on the forums.
SP board, skyboard, x receiver A2 port, USBasp, 3D products.
SM



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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by jhsa » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:04 pm

doesn't frsky sell an haptic upgrade for the taranis? I thought so.. Or am I missing something?

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by MikeB » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:05 pm

Yes, but SM is suggesting a larger motor for more "BBUUZZZZZZ".

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by jhsa » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:10 pm

ahhhhh ok. I think I found what he wants.. :mrgreen:
That'll give some BUUUZZZ ;) :mrgreen:

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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by ShowMaster » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:19 pm

I'm ok but others will really like that motor. I'm thinking wire the hand grips with a zapper.
Seriously, the motor would be nice if it was the next size up with a larger weight for where it mounts.
It's a personal preference thing. The DX8 haptic is a little too much.
I'm happy the code was added for haptic. The hardware can be dealt with and customized were needed now.
I'm thankful it was added.
SM


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Re: Haptic on Early Taranis

Post by jhsa » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:23 pm

I'm not a fan of vibrating electronics. :)
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