Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Hardware help and support for the FrSky Taranis
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cmez
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Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by cmez » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:54 pm

I will probably be referred to some existing thread for this, but, has anyone succeeded in linking two transmitters via a pair of cheap Fleabay BlueTooth tranceivers such as these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 1066012059
I ask, as Multiplex do a nice little dongle that fits into the trainer socket on each Tx which provides a solid master/trainer link between two TX's. It would be good if the Taranis could emulate this feature.


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Rob Thomson
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Rob Thomson » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:12 am

You could achieve the same with a 4ch freaky RX, outputting ppm sum - wires into a stereo socket.

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EjectSteve
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by EjectSteve » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:27 am

Can you elaborate on this?
For instance, can you take the cppm and ground output from a FrSky D4R-II (For example), and plug it into the trainer port input (master) on another transmitter?

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ShowMaster
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:41 am

You'll get more answers but yes.
Where it gets complicated is yes as long and the master will accept the ppm voltage and polarity.
I believe voltage isn't an issue but ppm polarity could.
That's where posting the master brand assuming the trainer is a 9x will come in.
Another 9x using a DJT module or a Taranis as the master should be ok.
I've got all the parts, receivers, and radios to try it and just didn't get my "round to it" working. Maybe this discussion will so go for it.

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by EjectSteve » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:51 am

The master is likely to be a dx6 or dx8. It's not an ideal training situation, but the student will have a spektrum and the plane bound to his radio. He's going to have to pull the trainer switch when he wants me to take over, but he has enough experience at this point. I'll probalby just step in for take off's and landings if needed.


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ShowMaster
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Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:45 am

A little strange to give the student control of the master. Usually they don't know they're in trouble and ride it into the ground.
But keeping with your planed setup, as long as the cppm ppm polarity out of the Frsky receiver used into the Spektrum is the same and you've remapped your trainer channels to match the Spektrum it should work.

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ShowMaster
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Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:33 am

Ok here's what I know to be fact using a D8R-XP in cppm mode, a er9x modified 9X with a DJT module.
The D8R-XP in cppm mode outputs a 3.36v PTP data stream.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379992905.574938.jpg
I plugged that into a DX7 trainer input jack. A AR1600 real Spekturm rec was pre bound to the DX7.
The DX7 servos could be controlled when the trainer switch was switched.
I also tried this wireless setup on my Taranis as the master and it also seems to work fine.
So to answer your original question, yes the cppm out of a Frsky receiver will output a ppm data stream of 3.3-3.6v and will be the correct polarity and voltage to control a Spektrum tx for training. I'm assuming all Spektrum TXs will work the same way.
Since I always map my sticks to emulate the Spektrum/JR protocol I didn't have to change the channel order to use the two different TXs together.
I'm also assuming the Frsky 4 Ch rev with cppm will also output a 3.3-3.6v PTP data stream.
I hope this helps you out. If was good for me to measure and try it so we both win.

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Post by Daedalus66 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:02 pm

ShowMaster wrote:A little strange to give the student control of the master. Usually they don't know they're in trouble and ride it into the ground.
As a long time instructor, I'd put it more strongly than that! The instructor MUST have the master transmitter and MUST be able to take over by releasing a spring loaded trainer switch. Students simply don't hand over control reliably.

If you don't do it this way, the buddy box arrangement is worthless. You might as well do what we used to before buddy boxes came into use -- just hand the transmitter back and forth. It works fine at a decent altitude but of course not when landing! Same would be true of the proposed setup.

EDIT I should say thank you to ShowMaster for the info on a wireless trainer arrangement. I'll be trying this out myself, as wireless is certainly the way to go.

An alternative way to do it is to use one of the switches from HobbyKing that allows you to install two receivers in the model. The instructor's radio has control over CH5, which determines whether the instructor or student radio is in control of the servos (failsafe in case of signal loss is whichever radio is linked). The two radios don't even have to be of the same type, mode or frequency band. It works well but is a bit bulky for small models.
Last edited by Daedalus66 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by gohsthb » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:24 pm

I had sort of a similar situation recently. The student brought his plane with a Futaba 6EX radio. The only thing I had for a buddy box was my new 14SG (I won this, didn't buy it). So the student got to use the really nice 14SG, while I as the instructor had to use the 6EX. After flying the student remarked, "This is a really nice radio. I think it makes me fly better." So just fly with the students radio, and let him/her use the buddy box, whatever that radio is.
-Gohst

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Infinity
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Infinity » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:19 pm

I thought about the idea of using 2 Taranis + 1 D4r-II (CPPM) as a wireless trainer/student setup.
Just looking from the size of the D4r-II it should fit into the battery hatch together with a 6 cell NiMh battery in triangle formation (default battery setup).
As the D4r-II needs a connection to +5V/GND/DSC input I wonder where at the PCB is the best place to solder a connection between this points and a servo lead wire with connector hooked up to channel 1 of the D4r-II?
Another question came up if it’s safe to have such a connection establish in the case you are using this Taranis as slave where it outputs CPPM at DSC itself? Maybe the usage of a diode is needed to prevent signal running into channel 1 of D4r-II in this case. On the other hand, the diode in this path will drop the CPPM signal by 0.6V coming from D4r-II going into DSC when this Taranis is used as trainer.
Any thoughts, better ideas or discussion about that is very welcome.
Thanks!

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:48 pm

If using a diode, try a schottky diode (BAT85 or similar), the voltage drop is around 0.2 to 0.3V.

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Infinity
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Infinity » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:06 pm

Hi Mike, good point, thanks. Any idea if there's a solder joint on the Taranis PCB which is able to provide the +5V AND can be switched ON/OFF via openTX software by physical or custom switch (maybe I'm just dreaming here, but if not asked, I'll never get an answer, right)?

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MikeB
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:26 pm

I don't think there is one, the Taranis runs from 3.3V.

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Kilrah
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Kilrah » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:39 pm

There is no 5V in the radio indeed.
But you can use VMAIN on the back board, it's switched battery voltage, but as a D4R-II can be powered with 12V there's no issue.
You'll need to unplug the receiver if wanting to use the Taranis in slave mode.

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Infinity
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Infinity » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:59 pm

Ok, for those of you who want to know how I ended up my journey with the wireless trainer setup just follow this link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... count=2027
Thanks Mike and Kilrah for your feedback, as it helped me finding a quick and easy to go solution which works fine for me.

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Eagle71
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Eagle71 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:08 pm

Infinity wrote:Ok, for those of you who want to know how I ended up my journey with the wireless trainer setup just follow this link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... count=2027
Thanks Mike and Kilrah for your feedback, as it helped me finding a quick and easy to go solution which works fine for me.
I believe the connector in the Module Bay include GND, +5V and/or VBat. So the D4R-II can use this power-connector easily and so only 1 wire is needed to the center - pin of the trainer-port. GND is so connected internally over the Module Bay.

As option a switch for the power of the D4R-II, so you have only disconnect the audio-jack in the trainer-port and switch power off in single or client mode.
Or a double switch when the trainer-port is connected internally.

Ciao Eagle71

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Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Daedalus66 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:01 pm

Eagle71 wrote: I believe the connector in the Module Bay include GND, +5V and/or VBat. So the D4R-II can use this power-connector easily and so only 1 wire is needed to the center - pin of the trainer-port. GND is so connected internally over the Module Bay.
There is no 5v supply available. The relevant pins (counting from the top) are 1. PPM, 3. Battery positive, 4. Ground. The mistake probably arises because on JR transmitters that supported 35/72 MHz crystal controlled modules, pin 2 supplied regulated 6v. However, the 9x transmitters did not follow JR on this and instead grounded the pin.

Pin 5 was used for the antenna on the MHz modules.
Last edited by Daedalus66 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ShowMaster
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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by ShowMaster » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:53 pm

Good info! I have several early orange DSM modules left over after they were replaced by HK with new ones. I maybe can salvage the board and connector to use for the receiver power. Hopefully the receiver will fit inside the module shell.
On the to do list.

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Romolo » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:29 am

I will suggest to consideri also the new frsky Delta 8 receiver: it outputs composite PPM too and allows to use as pupil a wide range of radios (futaba fhss, hitec and any radio with frsky module)
If I'm not wrong, delta 8 receivers can be powered up to 16V making completely useless an external power regulator.

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by GRM » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:08 pm

My buddy(Bary) and I modified his Taranis so that he has an internal wireless buddy box. I want to thank Kilrah for pointing out that the VMAIN on the backboard is switched. Also, thanks goes out to Infinity for pictures on where to insert the CPPM signal. The following PDF documents the mod.
Wireless Buddy Box.pdf
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Garland

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by Barasaur » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:12 pm

Thanks GRM for putting this great article together. I know many people will benefit from this as a great way to modify their Taranis with a switchable wireless buddy box trainer solution.

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Re: Wireless Trainer Connection on Taranis.

Post by rbak » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:04 pm

GRM wrote:My buddy(Bary) and I modified his Taranis so that he has an internal wireless buddy box. I want to thank Kilrah for pointing out that the VMAIN on the backboard is switched. Also, thanks goes out to Infinity for pictures on where to insert the CPPM signal. The following PDF documents the mod.
Wireless Buddy Box.pdf
Garland
Just wondering why in step E of the document you actually make a small loop in the red wire to solder it to the pins on top of the back board? Is that because you are not able to solder it on the back of the board? Looks a bit strange to me to do it this way (but not sure whether you can reach the other side of the board to solder it on or whether you could connect it to VMAIN elsewhere on the board)


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