Taranis and Haptic feedback

Hardware help and support for the FrSky Taranis
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Spoogy
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Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by Spoogy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:24 am

Hi,

Today we're getting a batch of 20 Taranis at in here Finland and I'm going to get one (have been struggling a long time between this and Futaba T-14SG).

I really liked to have haptic feedback because I'm already used to it with my modded 9X. Is it possible to somehow add it? I already read that one could use serial port, which is now used for debugging to enable the haptic feedback but it would need some changes to software also. Is there a plan to make such changes so, one could for example choose in Companion to enable haptic when downloading new firmware?
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:11 am

I agree it would be nice. I gave a Taranis demo at a large RC club meeting and that question came up several times. Many were DX8 owners and large scale flyers and because of the noisy flight line it's used in some fashion. I'm not a DX8 owner so I'm not up on its haptic features but do use it a lot on my 9x and skyboard modified radios.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by Rob Thomson » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:14 am

The ten is talk of this sort of mod. No doubt it will happen given a bit of time.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:10 pm

If haptic is added, or when it's added short of a second screen or a hand warmer for winter, the Taranis will be almost the perfect radio.
It already plays my favorite background music! I don't even have to fly it to enjoy playing with it.
To be perfect it needs a camera, second screen for FPV, Bluetooth and wifi or a 4g type connection.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by rdeanchurch » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:45 pm

+1. Haptic

And coffee dispenser and Jack Daniels with one ice cube!
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jhsa
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by jhsa » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:59 pm

A nice RGB display where we could change the color. Red for night flying for example :) And different colors when listening to music :D
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:28 pm

Mod squad time!

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by fridge » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:38 am

How about conecting the haptic motor to the display light via a solid state relay?
one of the switches could be used to turn it off.
Phil

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:38 pm

That or maybe use a NE567 tone decoder IC to detect a high frequency tone on the speaker from the sd cards audio file. The tones would be heard as a alarm for that function and the haptic would trigger if the tones duty cycle was constant. To keep from folding on blind announcements the tone would be higher than the voice frequency range with a longer duty cycle. Also a small cap on the 567 output would keep the haptic from triggering on voice peaks. I may still have some 567's from my past ham radio time decider projects.
Another project for a bad Wx day.

My new digital scope arrives tomorrow so I'll be able to look at the audio response and try some high frequency tone files on the sd card assigned to triggers.
Anyone in the Los Angeles area need a free older Tek scope?
4 ch bench top with manuals and a slight triggering issue. Tek 2246 model.
I don't want to throw it away or repair it or ship it! It was a gift from a now departed friend and I don't sell gifts. It's a shame to have it hit a land fill. I just don't want to repair it with the newer technology scopes out there that can do screen captures like the one I just purchased.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by jhsa » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:50 pm

If I lived near you, I would have it for sure.. :)

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by Iksbob » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:04 pm

I recall someone telling me that the Taranis processor has an unused serial port for just such expansions. Toss a DIP form factor Arduino in there, and you've got gobs of expansion possibilities. Use a pin for haptic, 3 for RGB backlight, an alert flasher LED, whatever. The Arduino (or some other SOC option) acts as a decoder, doing whatever grunt work the Taranis tells it to over the serial port. Heck, using a cheap multicopter flight control board could provide a bunch of ground-station data to the Taranis... Pitch/yaw/roll of the transmitter casing, compass heading, barometric altitude and such, all in addition to the above breakout functions.
Last edited by Iksbob on Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:05 pm

jhsa wrote:If I lived near you, I would have it for sure.. :)

João
I'm sorry you don't.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:10 pm

If I knew more about Arduino I'd try it. I'm just not good enough to.
I joined several Arduino user groups to learn more and I found I knew more than they did? Gave up the 50+ mile round trip meetings and stayed home after a few times. Saved gas money to buy what I need if someone makes it.
Maybe this project will gain some momentum if the interest is there.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by MikeB » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:21 pm

I've just taken the back off my production Taranis for a quick look round.
Originally, FrSky designed the TX to use audio from what is called an I2S connection. This used 4 signals from the processor. They also allowed the DAC output to be used.
Since we already used a DAC on the SKY board, it was easiest to use this rather than the I2S method.
The audio circuit is on a small daughter board, including the audio amplifier, volume control and I2S chip.
I've just seen that the I2S chip is NOT FITTED, makes sense as it is not used.
This means there are 4 unused signals from the processor, and they are all probably tracked to the audio board still. This board is mounted using standard through hole connections, easy to connect to. I haven't checked the signals are still tracked.

So, maybe, we have an easy connection to the processor to allow the addition of a FET to drive a haptic motor.

Mike.
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by Spoogy » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:56 pm

YES! Now it beguns to sound good. Cannot wait for more information from Mike. I really, really, really, really like to have it. :)
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:35 pm

Super!

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by heliphil » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:44 am

This all sounds very promising

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by rdeanchurch » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:10 pm

Please continue on with this Mike, several of us old guys really like haptic !

And we really appreciate your work knowing you can make both the ends work.

Thanks.
Dean
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:37 pm

I haven't forgotten this, just not had time to progress it!
Just been checking more things (for other reasons) and I've found another unused pin I think.
There was provision for a "power LED" and a signal to drive it. Such a LED would be on the "switch board", the signal goes to it via the 8-way connector, but does nothing on the switch board.

So, currently unised pins:
PC10 - was I2S3_SCLK
PC11 - was MUTE (for the I2S chip)
PC12 - was I2S3_SD
PA15 - was I2S3_WS
PC6 - was PWR_LED

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by Marco330 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:44 pm

Great that some people have the knowledge, time and guts to check all this stuff out! Isn't there a schematic out there, just like of the 9x for FCC certification or so?
Thank you for all the research!
Marco

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by jhsa » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:17 pm

wouldn't we be lucky?? :mrgreen:
No schematic available. At least not for us :)

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by Kilrah » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:43 pm

I like the PWR_LED for haptic. Allows people to only modify the switch board too and not risk the mainboard.

If I remember well the other 4 lines are a hardware SPI port, which would be best kept for an RF module (Walkera module for full compatibitity DSM with telemtry for example, or Hubsan/Flysky - both protocols are already implemented in the Deviation FW).

And there's also PA13/PA14 (SWD port) brought out to a header on the mainboard. Then there's the UART. Then the I2C bus that's easily accessible (on the audio module pads).

Plenty of connectivity :)

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:14 pm

Is this power led provision just to turn on a led or is there another programmable led feature it added?

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:16 pm

Options!
PA15 (part of SPI port) could be driven by a hardware timer to give a PWM drive.
PA13/14, the 4 pin header also provides 3.3V and ground connections, easier to wire the required transistor in.
PC6, the power led. The switch board does NOT have the 3.3V supply on it, so that would need to come from somewhere else.

SM: I think it was just for a LED, nothing special, the signal on the connector of the switch board is just not connected.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by ShowMaster » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:18 pm

The idea of only modifying the switchboard is a very good one. As posted it would be the least amount of soldering damage to a new tx and it's replaceable. Win, win.

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:25 pm

Except you need a power source (3.3V) not available on the switch board. You might be able to get switched battery from the power switch, so then you would need a regulator as well as a transistor, unless you got a regulator with an enable input?

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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by rdeanchurch » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:26 pm

Are we talking the power switch board?

I hope so that would be excellent.
Charger upgrade to new big battery and haptic in one.
Wayne has those in stock for $5.50.

At that price I could try even with my shaky old hands and poor eyes.
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Re: Taranis and Haptic feedback

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:38 pm

Regulators with enable:
NCV4266(OnSemi) - 150mA, 3.3V, surface mount 4 pins.
TPS7A1633(Ti) - 100mA, 3.3V, surface mount 8 pins.
SC1541(SemTech) - 1A, 3.3V, surface mount 5 pins (TO263)

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