Taranis and DSM2 mods

Daedalus66 · Post by **Daedalus66** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:47 pm

OK. It's coming clearer. The modules from non-computer DSMX radios (recent DX4e, DX5e) are only capable of detecting the type of receiver when they bind. Then they stay in that mode until bound to a different type of receiver. The modules from older DSM2 radios, of course, simply force a DSMX receiver into DSM2 mode.

So for many purposes, the old modules are preferable because they don't require rebinding if you change from one type of receiver to another. The benefit of the newer ones is obviously that you get the more reliable DSMX protocol, but much of the time that doesn't matter, and the cheap receivers are DSM2 anyway.

Is it possible to take a module from, say, a DX6i computer radio and get the full model match/auto-shifting Spektrum operation?

Post by **Kilrah** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:23 pm

EjectSteve wrote:If this is the case, would it make sense (or work) to force the module to use DSMX when DSMX is selected?

As explained several times already, that's not possible.
Those modules have 2 modes:
- Auto (it chooses between DSMX/DSM2 as it sees fit based on the receiver capabilities)
- DSM2 only (always sends out DSM2)

That's all we can tell them to do.

What I am not sure about is if the receiver capability detection is done at every power up, or if it is stored by the module and used until a rebinding. I could try with mine but for some reason can't get it to work anymore, so it will have to wait a bit until I can troubleshoot it.
BUT from what I understand, even if it stored the last bound mode, if you bind with DSMX then select a model set to DSM2 in the model settings it should work (even if the module stored DSMX, as the radio is telling it to send DSM2 it will do so).

EjectSteve wrote:For instance, I didn't know that Companion doesn't handle the dsm2/dsmx protocols well when you save back to the radio.

It's simply a bug. It's been fixed for next release.

Daedalus66 wrote:Is it possible to take a module from, say, a DX6i computer radio and get the full model match/auto-shifting Spektrum operation?

The DX6i uses the same module, it's only the DX8 and newer that have the "full-blown" module. And no it's not useable, as it only houses the RF chip, it doesn't have the processor that handles the protocol like the cheap radios which made it possible and relatively simple to use in the 9x. There you'd need another board and processor inbetween.

EjectSteve · Post by **EjectSteve** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:36 pm

This makes sense now. The DX8 tells you if it binds dsm2 or dsmx, but the dx6 does not. This must be the 2 way protocol you were talking about on the dx8. The dx6 module may just be redetecting the protocol type on each RX initialization like you are describing above.

It sounds like the taranis implementation should work without having to rebind regardless of whether you are switching between dsm2 and dsmx protocols in the model setup. For me, it is mostly one model (a 130x) that I have to keep rebinding. I'll do some more experimenting. Thank you for the explanation.

Anyone else having situations where they need to rebind? Perhaps this is something particular to rx's that I am using.

schome1 · Post by **schome1** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:08 am

Just thought I'd ask because it's an easy thing to forget. Did you remove the bind plug? Keeping it in will force rebind every time.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

EjectSteve · Post by **EjectSteve** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:43 am

Yeah, but I am using/testing micros that don’t have bind plugs. My biggest offender as far as needing to rebind is a 130x. I have an as3xtra that occasionally needs to rebind, and a nano cpx that never needs to be rebound.

Daedalus66 · Post by **Daedalus66** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:12 am

Sounds about normal. My experience using JR and Spektrum transmitters with ultra micros is not 100%!

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:58 am

dang wrote:
rdeanchurch wrote:
dang wrote:Has anyone actually used an orange module in the Taranis? I have seen dozens of comments stating it should work and believe myself that it should. I have an orange module here that does not work. I don't know if the module is any good as I have nothing else with a JR style socket. The module blinks once kind of feebly when powered up by Taranis but won't bind to a known working receiver or anything else.
Mine plugged in without any problem with pin alignment.
I have bound it to a 6100 rx and it was just like binding on a DX-7.
Works fine on bench test with servos plugged in and channels re-arranged to JR/Spektrum.
I haven't flown it yet, my Bind and fly UMX sbach arrives Tuesday.
Hopeful I'll be able to bind to it as painlessly as it has gone so far.
Thanks Guys,

I'll borrow a JR radio and test the module. Last night I tried my futaba spektrum module on a conversion board though and it didn't light up or anything either. Hmmmm...

Do you have an eepe for the Blade?

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:33 pm

outFront wrote:It took me a while to get my orange module to bind with my Blade SR. Turns out somehow my PPM delay in the Taranis was set to 0, which apparently is bad. Setting it back to 300us worked and I was able to crash my SR, just like usual.

cheers,

bob

Still haven't been able to bind my Taranis to either the Blade 120SR. Actually, it binds, but the sticks/controls aren't correct.Also, I get absolutely no throttle. At my wits end.

Steve

Philipp · Post by **Philipp** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:21 pm

You propably have to change the channel order in your model memory. Spektrum uses Throttle, Aileron, Elevator and Rudder for channels 1, 2, 3 and 4, short TAER. The Taranis is set to a different channel order by default. There might be a better way, but for me changing the channel order in the mixer settings on page 5 of the model menu worked well.

Daedalus66 · Post by **Daedalus66** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:46 pm

Philipp wrote: There might be a better way, but for me changing the channel order in the mixer settings on page 5 of the model menu worked well.

That's the only way to change channel order for a single model. You can set the default order in Radio Setup.

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:09 pm

Daedalus66 wrote:
Philipp wrote: There might be a better way, but for me changing the channel order in the mixer settings on page 5 of the model menu worked well.
That's the only way to change channel order for a single model. You can set the default order in Radio Setup.

I hate to bug, but I can't seem to change them. This Tx is frustrating in that I'm very computer literate, but this thing is kicking my butt. On page five if I choose "move" on any channel it just brings up a value of 100 and moves that, instead of moving lets say, rudder, or throttle. I'm sure it's something i'm missing, but I don't know what that something is.
Thanks for your responses guys.

Steve

Philipp · Post by **Philipp** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:21 pm

I'm sorry, the MIXER setup is on page 6.

Page 5 is for STICKS, i.e. Expo, Rates, Curves etc.

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:35 pm

Philipp wrote:I'm sorry, the MIXER setup is on page 6.
Page 5 is for STICKS, i.e. Expo, Rates, Curves etc.

Thanks, I'll look into that right now. Much appreciated Sir.

Steve

Post by **Kilrah** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:55 pm

Don't look at page numbers, they change depending on chosen options.

Philipp · Post by **Philipp** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:07 pm

Mhm ok, didn't know that.

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:15 pm

Finally got it to work. Interesting thing though. It will bind with my newer 120, but not an older one given to me by a friend. It flies fine with the stock Tx. Any ideas?

And thanks a million for the help. I jumped to the ceiling when it worked!

Steve

Philipp · Post by **Philipp** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:25 pm

What kind of module are you using? If it's DSMX and you try to bind it in DSMX mode to an older DSM2 120SR, this would probably give you a hard time. If you are using a DSMX module you can still bind it to the older 120SR in DSM2 mode:

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:49 pm

Philipp wrote:What kind of module are you using? If it's DSMX and you try to bind it in DSMX mode to an older DSM2 120SR, this would probably give you a hard time. If you are using a DSMX module you can still bind it to the older 120SR in DSM2 mode:

The Module is the OrangeRX.

What have you set for these settings?
Page 3:
Swash Type
Collective Source
Long Cyc dir
Lat Cyc dir
Coll. Pitch dir

Steve

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:16 pm

Well, the New one flies with the Taranis. Thats cool. The older one wont bind. I can't use the DSM2 mode with the Blade's rcvr. But that's okay. I have a Blade 130X and a 450X on order. Hopefully they bind.

On another note, I did finally figure out why my sticks weren't behaving correctly. After I write an eepe to the radio, I found that the calibration is all whack. After calibrating, the heli flies as it should. All a learning process I guess.

Steve

Philipp · Post by **Philipp** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:12 pm

Ok, the OrangeRX module handles DSM2 / DSMX internally, I can't help you with this. Regarding the HELI SETUP page you do not have to change anything for Blade's simple helis like the 120SR. All the mixing is done inside the heli itself. I'm not that good with helis yet and don't own any with collective pitch, I can't tell you anything about setting up helis in your Taranis.

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:42 am

Philipp wrote:Ok, the OrangeRX module handles DSM2 / DSMX internally, I can't help you with this. Regarding the HELI SETUP page you do not have to change anything for Blade's simple helis like the 120SR. All the mixing is done inside the heli itself. I'm not that good with helis yet and don't own any with collective pitch, I can't tell you anything about setting up helis in your Taranis.

Right, the Module handles it. But it has to be on ppm. If I were using a rcvr with a bind plug, I could then choose dsm2 on the radio. I've learned much, and you've been a big help. Thanks much for taking the time to do so.

Steve

Daedalus66 · Post by **Daedalus66** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:36 am

For a fixed pitch heli like the 120SR, there simply is NO mixing for the swash. One servo tips the swash plate sideways for aileron and the other tips backwards and forwards for elevator action. By contrast, with CCPM, which is what the Heli mix page provides, three servos tilt the swash for cyclical and raise and lower it for collective pitch. All this assumes a fly bar type heli. For an FBL heli, the mixing is done by an onboard controller that requires just simple inputs, then it does the mixing. Same for multi rotor machines.

The OrangeRX module recognizes the type of receiver at time of bind (the receiver tells it). The are four types: dsm2 22ms, dsm2 11ms, DSMX 22ms, DSMX 11ms. Recognizable by no flash, one flash, two flashes, three flashes, respectively. As long as you stick with one type of receiver, it should work, but if you change, say, from DSM2 22 to DSMX 22, you will have to change the module manually (three quick presses on the button shifts to the next type). If in doubt, rebind.

Regarding calibration, the problem is that the radio's general settings, including calibration, are stored on the EEPROM along with the models. You don't just "write an eePe to the radio." You read the EEPROM file from the transmitter to Companion, add the model to it, then write it back to the transmitter. That way, all your settings are preserved.

Hope this helps.

EDIT Note that the Orange module, and most others, require PPM input. DSM2 mode only works with a module taken from a DX4e or DX5e transmitter, as it provides a totally different input to the module.

Swaggerjacker · Post by **Swaggerjacker** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:09 am

Thanks much.

LVNeptune · Post by **LVNeptune** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:42 pm

I think this thread might be irrelevant to what I am trying to do...

Basically I want to purchase http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ible_.html to use with HK's new microquad and possibly mini heli's in the future. Can I use that module on my Taranis, easily? If not, what do I have to do? Thank you.

Post by **Kilrah** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:04 pm

This thread is about the DIY mod, but yes the Orange module is plug and play.

LVNeptune · Post by **LVNeptune** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:06 pm

Appreciated. Thank you

EjectSteve · Post by **EjectSteve** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:06 pm

LVNeptune wrote:I think this thread might be irrelevant to what I am trying to do...

Basically I want to purchase http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ible_.html to use with HK's new microquad and possibly mini heli's in the future. Can I use that module on my Taranis, easily? If not, what do I have to do? Thank you.

Choose ppm for the external module bay and turn off the internal module. (done in model setup) Then follow the instructions from hobby king on binding/using the orange module.

Hawk600 · Post by **Hawk600** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:57 pm

Hello folks!
I got a Taranis, a DX5e DSMX and a bad Orange TX module (one of the first bad batches with wonky RF)
I was wondering if anybody has tried or can please walk me through using the DX5e RF unit with the Orange TX components such as voltage regulator, jack and case so I can have a module with model match fail safe etc.
The intention is not to use the DX5 voltage regulator because I wanted to leave it as flight simulator controller. I've seen other posts cannibalizing the spektrum TX for voltage regulator or even using a HK BEC but I wanted to avoid it if possible as I got the Orange module seating here without use.
Thanks in advance!

Daedalus66 · Post by **Daedalus66** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:40 pm

First, to deal with the Orange module. The first batch did not have "wonky RF." Rather they had a firmware problem, which resulted in channel 2 not working properly. This is easily fixable using the programmer available from HK for about $8:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... odule.html
I've done it myself and the module now works normally.

Second, to build a workable module from one taken from the DX5e, I would just use a BEC available from HK and follow the instructions, rather than trying to cannibalize the Orange.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _23v_.html

Moreover, the worst feature of the Orange module is the antenna design, so the case is not a good basis for building a new module, unless you modify it to mount the antenna vertically. The best case is probably the one available for the Spektrum DM9:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/in ... le-SPM6817

Third, failsafe is a function of the receiver, not the transmitter, so the specific module makes no difference. The standard Spektrum failsafe simply remembers the position of the throttle stick (CH1) at time of bind and uses that if signal is lost. Other channels just hold if signal is lost.

dvogonen · Post by **dvogonen** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:34 pm

Daedalus66 wrote:First, to deal with the Orange module. The first batch did not have "wonky RF." Rather they had a firmware problem, which resulted in channel 2 not working properly. This is easily fixable using the programmer available from HK for about $8:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... odule.html
I've done it myself and the module now works normally.

I also bought one of the first generation Orange TX modules. All of those were replaced by HobbyKing at their own cost with the explicit instruction to discard the old modules. I also intended to reflash my older module since I assumed that they only updated the firmware. Much to my surprise discovered that there were significant differences in circuit layout between the first and second batch modules. They obviously fixed not only firmware but also hardware issues. Who knows, the changes may not have been fixes but rather production streamlining to cut costs, but I do not know that for sure and I would not feel confident using a reflashed first generation module.

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