Display unreadable at cold weather

[Spoogy]

Hello,

I have been reported that Taranis display is unreadable at cold weather and I noticed that also by myself.

- One user said that, when he went flying on almost -10C degree temperature he didn't see anything from the display.
- Other user said that, he didn't see anything on -5C degree temperature.
- I wen't flying almost -15C degree temperature on the icy lake and spend two hours in there. Display was wery faint and it was little bit difficult to see what was written there. Also navigating through menus and etc. was extremely slow. Also numbers for the timers was all messed up because display did not update at the proper speed. When I took radio back inside the house, after a while, it begun to work as should.

Those two other users has NiMh battery in the radio and other one is using the original Taranis battery. I have 3 cell LiFe, if this information has something to do with this situation.

Is there anything what can be done to improve the readability (update speed) of the display at the cold conditions? As you may now that, in here in Finland -10C degree and below temperatures may last for months, and it's going to be a long wait if one can't fly for whole that time. Or let's say, the usability of the radio is not enjoyable for that time.

Any help from anyone? Have any other user noticed similar kind of behaviour?

-Spoogy

[Kilrah]

You should be able to increase contrast and get a clearer display - but I'm afraid there won't be a solution to the slowness, that's just physics.

I don't fly below +5° personally

[Bill]

LCD's are sensitive to temperature the fluid tends to "stiffen" in the cold special LCD's are required that have an operating range that extends into the low temperatures.
Electronics required to work at these temperatures have to be military spec'd and cost a lot more than the off the shelf components used in the Taranis or 9X. I guess you have found why other proprietary brands that work in these conditions cost more. The Chinese moon probe has also ceased to function this week probably due to similar temperature related failings.
A solution employed in the UK briefly as I recall was a transmitter muff with a transparent cover in which the transmitter was protected from rain and the fingers from numbing, but in your case a heated enclosure / transmitter tray would be the answer.

[Spoogy]

Turnigy9x worked perfectly at -10C degrees. I tested that multiple times couple years ago, when we had quite cold weathers for 3-4 months. I'm surpised that Taranis display doesn't hold even that much what Turnigy did.

Also, my flying buddies, many has Futaba and those doesn't even slow a bit or faint on -15C degrees temperature. Especially MZ18 color display. That was clear as in a warm sunny day and refreshed well, when I flied with that my buddies Seagull Super Decathlon 120. But of course that is a lot more expensive radio, but anyway.... no military equip. needed for proper work.

And also what makes me think is that, why some of these Taranises doesn't work even -5C degree temperature and mine works even under below -10C. Not well, but it can be read and used with little exercise.

p.s: @Kilrah, here it's -0,5 now and it's warm. And it's not going to be above that for many months. Instead it's going to get colder again. So, better used to fly in a cold conditions or not flying at all for a half an year. (just building a skis for my own new Seagull Super Decathlon 120 ).

[MikeB]

Could we use the processor temperature sensor and make some small adjustments to the contrast automatically when cold?

Mike.

[Spoogy]

You took the words from my mouth. I thinked that earlier by myself so, that user doesn't have to always adjust it manually. BUT, I think it may need some calibration or pre-set settings for different temperatures (like a memory array for different temps). I think you know better how to do, but I agree that could be possible.

edit: maybe to do so, we could have for example 3-4 'steps' in there. When it gets below 0C (I think contrast doesn't need adjustment temperatures above that) software checks what is the contrast settings at the moment and stores that to memory. Then if it gets colder, let's say for example -5C degrees, the contrast will be adjusted xx values darker. And for every -5C degree change it will be adjusted again maybe same ammount (xx) as earlier if possible (if there's any adjustment left on contrast setting). I think you get what I mean. Of course these values are just an example, but something like that.

And if it gets warmer we reverse this formula unless user manual setting is reached (stored in memory). And if radio is powered off, then contrast setting will be reset to user set default value (stored earlier).

-Spoogy

[Kilrah]

Should be possible! Haven't checked what the accuracy is on the STM's temp sensor.

[Spoogy]

Maybe it does not have to be so accurate. Just some adjustment for darker if it gets colder (below 0C). And of course we have to think what are the steps for the contrast for each temperature drop range. (like example for each -5 degree drop it gets adjusted xx steps).

-Spoogy

[Bill]

here it's -0,5 now and it's warm. And it's not going to be above that for many months. Instead it's going to get colder again

No wonder the suicide rate is so high in Finland, I feel suicidal just hearing about it!!

[Spoogy]

here it's -0,5 now and it's warm. And it's not going to be above that for many months. Instead it's going to get colder again

No wonder the suicide rate is so high in Finland, I feel suicidal just hearing about it!!

mee too. *seeking rope and a oak tree*

-Spoogy

[jhsa]

Don't do it outside, it's too cold

[Bill]

This might make you delay your demise:
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... ouse_.html
Together with something like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SnugBug-Portabl ... B0034VW16I
Otherwise it would keep your hands warm while knotting the rope!!

[Spoogy]

Bill, don't attempt me. I already have that radio glove and also HK heaters which can easily converted to be hand warmers.

*god damned rope. I think I saw it somewhere here...it's getting colder already...[assembling warmes into a hand gloves]*

-Spoogy

[Bill]

Damn weather, oh well roll on summer, another under the jet-stream, and we'll have to convert the house to a boat!

[ShowMaster]

I'm happy to report that in the dead of our winter in Los Angeles the LCD display is fine. The case gets slippery from sun screen and sweaty hands however.
On a serious note, what about a adding a heating element inside the case in the LCD area? Maybe a few actual lamps or wire wound resistors or the heating element from the HK gloves ect?
Either use the internal battery pack and change it a lot or add a connector for an external lipo belt pack and cable?

About the external belt pack? For those needing extended flight times, why not Schottky Diode mix the internal battery with an external input pack? Add a connector, wear the external pack on your belt. Being diode input mixed, one could plug or unplug the external pack any time without power interruption.
Freedom to hand launch then switch to external power when you plug in. Pull the plug at the end of flight and the internal battery takes over. Change the external battery at will for extended flight times and still have the internal as a full backup.
Maybe solar panels on the wing so you'll never have to land? Food, water, and potty breaks still need to be worked out. Maybe that's where the GPS and auto pilot come in.




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[Bill]

I see so it's OK to make fun of the weather when you live in Los Angeles 81F / 27C midwinter!

[dvogonen]

I worked with electronics meant to be used in freezers a long time ago. That experience thought me that there is a huge difference between the physical tolerances of different LCDs. The ones with a wider temp range are a bit more pricey, but not all that much.

The LCD on the Taranis is strange. Most aspects are terrible with banding, bleeding, contrast problems and now temperature problems. Terrible, just terrible stuff. But the outdoor readability is fantastic!

Does anyone know if they are using something exotic, or have they just picked the cheapest LCD they could find and got a strange one?

[ShowMaster]

I see so it's OK to make fun of the weather when you live in Los Angeles 81F / 27C midwinter!

Of course we're in a severe drought, our lawns are tuning brown, the city's out of money, the last big earthquake cracked my house walls and freeways collapsed. But great flying weather. Good news is we haven't had the big quake, yet!


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[Bill]

Great we can all agree on the c**p weather now I've got a hole in the roof due to the high winds last night!

[Flaps 30]

Bill. It's better than a hole in your shoe with all this water around. ---> Traffic - Hole in my shoe

[Bill]

Yea well I suppose, at least it's over the bathroom!
Perhaps I should drop some acid and persuade the albatross to perch over the hole until the roofer can get to it!

[jlummel]

Turnigy9x worked perfectly at -10C degrees. ...

Also, my flying buddies, many has Futaba and those doesn't even slow a bit or faint on -15C degrees temperature. Especially MZ18 color display. ...
...

Actually the Turnigy 9x may have worked fine in the cold as there is an on-board heater that the Taranis doesn't have, namely the on-board regulator. The 9x uses the older 780x style regulator on-board and all the extra energy is dumped as heat, so it can get quite toasty in the case. That's also why it goes thru batteries faster. But there could very well be enough heat generated to allow the LCD to function properly in colder weather as the case is fairly well closed off with no where for the heat to go.

The Taranis uses a more efficient switching power supply on-board, no extra heat in the case so it would be more cold-challenged, but less prone to early failure as well. And the batteries last longer.

As for the Futaba radios, they can also get pretty hot internally, so I'm not surprised they still worked in the cold. That to may be due to using the 780x style regulators keeping the inside of the case toasty too (Futabas aren't known to be battery efficient). But I would suspect they are also using higher grade LCDs as well.

You could put a small heating element in the Taranis case (maybe on the back of the LCD, for instance). If I'm right about the voltage regulators supplying the heat to keep the LCDs working, then it would not take too much to make it work.

Or you could use one of the cold weather transmitter socks mentioned in an earlier message and use a heating element to keep the whole radio (and your fingers) warmed up.

James

PS- Has anyone looked into replacing the LCD in a Taranis with a higher grade LCD? The stock LCD has got to be the Taranis's weakest point!

[Bill]

The 9x uses the older 780x style regulator on-board and all the extra energy is dumped as heat, so it can get quite toasty in the case. That's also why it goes thru batteries faster. But there could very well be enough heat generated to allow the LCD to function properly in colder weather as the case is fairly well closed off with no where for the heat to go.

Excellent point.

[Spoogy]

Hi,

Now as you said this, I recall I was thinking the same thing actually when I was on the ice but then it got lost in my thoughts, because I kept thinking how to make this one work.

Heat doesn't make good for other components, so if we find a solution to heat up the LCD it has to be so sophisticated that it just warms it up a little and doesn't bring so much extra heat inside the radio. Also I do not like to be opening the radio every summer to remove that heater or make any external switches for that. Programmatically operated would be the best solution. Hmm.. maybe just couple resistive wires across the LCD backside would do the trick. Like the rear window heaters on the cars. Just need to figure out proper wires and power source for those (from the TX battery with proper voltage drop -> which causes also heat -> not good -> dead idea. )

But even beter solution would be to find replacement LCD which could tolerate cold conditions even a little better and especially make overall display quality better (which is far more important thing than that display functioning in a cold condititions).

But I just finished my Super decathlon and going to be maiden that maybe on next weekend if there's a weather. I will see and test the LCD if the contrast setting has positive effect and also try to figure out how much adjustment is needed for certain ammount of temperature change. If we could test that automatic contrast adjustment.

-Spoogy

[ShowMaster]

There is a pro upgrade in the works.
Rumor has it that it'll have a multi color display? Maybe a totally new display?
Great time to contact Frsky and request that the display failure in cold weather be addressed. Catch them before the design is finalized.


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[Spoogy]

nice to know. If someone who has better ways to communicate with FrSky would please address this issue to them? I tried to contact them via e-mail and their forums about my two non-working SBUS decoders, but I haven't got any replies... :\

-Spoogy

[ShowMaster]

The last few years I've gotten an answer from Alan or Eva at Frsky pretty fast. Usually 24/48 hours depending on when I sent it.
[email protected]
[email protected]


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