Realistic Joy Stick Flying

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kaos
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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:43 pm

OK, I made a connector for original Tx pots and Joystick pots so I can switch back and forth using either the tx pots or the Joystick pots and connected the Gnd wire to the trim I robbed. ;) all trims are working. This connector is planned (part of the 40 solder joints ;) ) because I know I will be going back and forth with the Tx pots and Joysticks. Many things need to be done with Tx boards before finalize this. It is easier to disconnect the Joystick from Tx and using tx sticks to work with other things.

1st, my Joystick does not come with a trim at all. I believe it is all done via PC (this WAS a PC/PS3 USB stick).
2nd, I am pretty sure the pots original Vcc and Gnd are exactly the opposite of tx because I measure the voltage and polarity, and marked the wire which is Vcc, which is Gnd and wiper.
So am I correct for these pot's Vcc/Gnd, are really up the the manufacturer/programmer how they want to do it. They can choose use either wire as Vcc or gnd depends on how they want to program it? I think that is what the stick reverse in the manual is talking about. I just don't know why these are not standardized instead of using either wire which means the voltage measured will be exactly opposite. :(
3rd, it is easy for me to switch the Vcc and Gnd for all the pots. So I will switch all the Vcc/gnd in Joystick so they operate the same way as the Tx stick. The trim are Tx trim anyway. then I can swap the tx stick and joystick back and forth without resetting the Tx.

so what I will be doing is without any INV on ch and connect the pots that it will move +100 to the right and +100 up and trim moves as the button moves up and down, left and right. All pots will be operating correctly with extra button wires reserved by the end of day. :)

Wow, just saw Skynorth's post. Dunka!!


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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by SkyNorth » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:39 pm

Joao , I will send you 20K /10 turn trim pots .... you can dial up the output voltage you need.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:50 pm

I did the hall sensor mod on one of my 9x radios. The gimbals connect to 5V. The magnets are glued to the pot shaft. The angle the saft rotates is not enough so that the voltage has the complete range from about 0v to near 5V. The result is a slight loss of resolution, not that I've noticed until now. But with the analog inputs working at 3.3V and being able to adjust the output, I could bring the analog inputs to their maximum resolution..
Considering that the mechanics of the 9x gimbals are quite bad, my radio has very little error. Max error is 0.5

Thanks Brent..

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:50 pm

SkyNorth wrote:I will send you two some LM324 Quad op-amps + a small piece of breadboard along with the co-proc
these can be used to Buffer Kaos' 100K pots . and Joao can use them as buffered voltage divider
to feed his 5V Hall output sensors into to get a 3V A/D level.
I also have the JST connector shells and terminals to make cables if you need
-Brent
YES! 6 9pin, 3 6pin and 3 5pin just like those on the main board in sets if possible. I will be more than glad to pay for it. Thank you!
For me to find and get it would take at least another month.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:02 am

Want to see a wiring nightmare? Here you have it:
Inside the Joystick base: 5 pots (ail, ele, twist/rudder, micro joystick X,Y axis) + 4 buttons
DSC03815.JPG
all that comes to this end to plug into the tx
DSC03816.JPG
Here is how it is plugged in, the other plug is for original tx ail/ele. I want to be able to unplug the Joystick and use the tx original Ail/ele for Tx mod/programming without the hassle of bulky Joystick attached to it. The wires for 4 buttons is ready to be connected to extra port and grounded already. so are the X,Y axis in micropot are already connected to Vcc and Gnd, only the wipers are left hanging. I may test them out by robbing P1, P2 circuit before AR9X is here.
DSC03817.JPG
The Joystick part is completed. ail, ele are moving to the correct direction with trim. ail: - 100 -> +100 left to right. ele: -100 -> +100 down to up
I have not decided to use the twist in Joystick for rudder or use the rocker on Throttle handle for rudder. I have to actually fly with each option to decide later or jump straight to foot paddle for rudder.

Now only the Throttle needs to be wired up, it has 2 pots (thr, rocker/rudder) + 4 buttons. Actually 6 but 4 is quite enough I think. Those are also the soft silent type buttons which do not give a good clicking feel. So I will just leave them out.
My understanding Skynorth's I/O port can have 11 port any way. I will use 3 pots and 8 buttons from it.

I definitely need 16 ch for this. So, make the AR9X with dual tx module kicks in here.

Mike:
Are you ready to program that I/O for 3 pots and 8 buttons?
:mrgreen:

Back to work on the Throttle handle now. ;)


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kaos
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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:51 pm

Houston, Eagle has landed to start the mission! :)

Both Throttle and Joystick are complete. The Joystick pots Vcc/Gnd are exactly wired opposite to T9X in polarity, every one of them.
now the Joystick can replace the the sticks on T9X completely and function normally. I actually can start practicing flying with Joysticks with my micro quads to get a feel of it before using on large models. :)
All the buttons has been tested functioning with ohmmeter, just waiting to be connected to ports. AR9X is not here yet. Made a couple changes for transition phase usage. The only thing has not been tested and confirmed is the micro joystick. If the AR9X is not here in the next couple days, I will hijack P1, P2 circuit to test it. should be ok, it is a pair of 5K pots.
These 100k pots works well in M128 board with 5V, so there is a chance it might work with 3.3V without op-amp. We will see.
All in all, used almost 1 meter of shrink wrap to cover all the solder joints for those wires/switches. :o
DSC03818.JPG
there is a connector to switch whether using the Tx sticks or the joystick during this transition phase. In the pic the tx sticks are connected. I need that 6 pin JST socket to make these connectors, so I cut out the HK backlight connector and use the 5V from tx adding a 470 ohm resistor to power the backlight.
DSC03819.JPG
Here are the Joystick connectors. I can swap when needed.

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kaos
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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:42 am

It is a dream come true!
Just flew my v959 with the Joysticks. Fantastic! What a new experience.
Everything works out perfectly. The only thing is once the quad took off, I realized using the rocker on the throttle handle for rudder control is not a good idea. Very unnatural to me. Made a switch in the wiring to use the 'twist' on Joystick to control rudder. Then everything works out perfectly. There will be some getting used to but should be very easy. Three days of hard work of wiring ending up with a great ending/beginning of a new experience. :) :)

The 40 degree pot on Joysticks actually works out great, feel have more control than using fingers. Because the travel of 40 degree on the Joystick with hand is much greater than fingers. I think they choose that 40 degree pot by design.

The only imperfection is found out the 'twist' pot is wired in reverse, so I just use 'INV' in limit menu to have a quick test. need to open up the base again to switch two wires.
The buttons on the the throttle handle is so conveniently accessible, I will set one of them up as 'instant trim' switch. It will work much better.
These joysticks are mimicking the real fly sticks which had been studied in their ergonomics in great depth by fighter jet manufacturer. They really work out great.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:56 pm

Now everything is working. I have flew a few packs with my V959 including FPV. Wonderful! Can't wait when the AR9X board and extra I/O board is here. :)
Attachments
DSC03826.JPG

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kaos
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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:58 am

one question. I plan to replace those AIL, ELE, RUD, GEA switch with push button on/off switch on the Fly Panel instead of the stick on/off. I like to put a inline led so when it is on, the led also light up, when it is off the led goes off. Will that lower the current/voltage too low for the Sam chip to detect the signal?
I assume those also run on 3.3V. I have some led can run straight with 3.3V without any resistor.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:55 am

I think you will need to put such LEDs in parallel, so they act like pullup resistors. You will need a 3.3V supply for them.
The switch inputs are pulled high by an internal processor pullup of around 20K, too high to allow a LED to light.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:45 am

There might be something to keep in mind when replacing the stock switches with some push ON/OFF switches. I think they need to be of the type "Push to Break". Mike, could you please confirm this?

Thanks

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:51 am

If they are push buttons, then probably, I assumed they were of the type "push to toggle" he has.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:01 pm

Yes, that is what I meant, push to toggle. The ones I know normally when ON the button is a bit lower than when in the OFF state.. That is why I mentioned it.
Thanks

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:44 pm

This is the switch:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-1712-CC-DC- ... 0408.m2460

MikeB wrote:I think you will need to put such LEDs in parallel, so they act like pullup resistors. You will need a 3.3V supply for them.
The switch inputs are pulled high by an internal processor pullup of around 20K, too high to allow a LED to light.
will something like this work?
led switch.png
(8.34 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:44 pm

No, the voltage at the pin won't go low enough.
The existing switch grounds the pin. Just add the LED (and series resistor if needed) between 3.3V and the switch. When the switch is closed, the LED will come on and the pin will be connected to ground.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:07 pm

Thx, Mike. Like this?
led switch.png
(5.48 KiB) Not downloaded yet
changed diagram
Last edited by kaos on Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by SkyNorth » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:45 pm

Is yours going to look like this when finished ;-)
http://www.rcchinamade.com/fpv-uav-mach ... -case.html

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:10 pm

A little more complex. ;) This is my preliminary thought:
Cockpit panel layout.jpg
The final version should have a antenna tracker with LSR.

Dang, when did they come out something liket that!
Last time I check (2-3 yrs ago), there is only one USB joystick available.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 pm

kaos wrote:Thx, Mike. Like this?
led switch.png
Yes.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:32 am

Great! that is easy enough. :)

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by duststorm » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:06 pm

Awesome project kaos!

If you're looking for a new challenge now, perhaps try controlling the quad with one of these:
A 3DConnexion SpaceNavigator :D
http://www.3dconnexion.eu/index.php?id= ... nnexion.eu

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:26 pm

You are trying to make me never be able to finish the project? :lol: :lol: :lol:
This hobby has endless potential and fun! :mrgreen:

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by duststorm » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:16 am

kaos wrote:You are trying to make me never be able to finish the project?
Always glad if I can help ;)

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:00 am

A little progress here. My AR9X and NRF24L01 seem to be boarded MH137. :lol: :(
I decided to rob p1, p2 from the tx to test out the micro stick pots to control camera and test out some buttons on the Joystick.
DSC03841.JPG
made two 3 prone connectors to rob p1,p2, THR and TRN but still can replug the original pots/switches back to do programming...
I used extra long wires because I don't want to waste a servo cable, so I can reuse the full length of the cable later. ;)
DSC03843.JPG
extension to plug in the Joystick connectors when Tx case is closed.
And...... Success! :)
This vid shows the camera is controlled by micro stick on the Joystick and the center orange button is to recenter the camera:
The 'progressive' template works extremely well in controlling the camera while leaving the camera at where it is when finger is lifted from the micro stick. Adding a switch to recenter camera, perfect! ;) (Only my brain is all noodled up by this programming. :lol: :lol: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDRtPgkElyE

this vid shows the right side button on the Joystick is now a THR cut button, push to cut, push again to release throttle. (see the thr output and timer on Tx screen, the back ground noise is the V959 motor spinning with throttle movement)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVuhns5N5X8

So all pots and buttons work very well with 5V. Will see if they work with 3.3V from the AR9X board.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:01 pm

I noticed one interesting thing. Once I swapped the tx THR and TRN to the joystick, the display screen always shows THR and TRN highlighted. The THR is using the f-flop function to make the momentary button an on/off switch. Is it supposed to be that way when using f-flop?
I can't figure out why TRN is also always highlighted, on tx or on Joystick both are momentary switches.
This is using er9x r819 on stock M128 board.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:39 pm

But, as mentioned before, the TRN switch on the 9X is electrically connecting when it is away from you and electrically disconnected when you pull it forwards, so is a "push to break" operation. Almost certainly, the buttons you are using are "push to make" operation.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:55 pm

That is what I meant before :mrgreen: Saw it coming :mrgreen:

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:50 pm

OK, got it, but it does not affect the function of it. I 'guess' the program just make decision based on 'change of state' , not on/off?? for TRN.
For THR, it is an on/off right? only it is backwards with the momentary switch and f-flop function? If so why it is always highlighted?
It does not affect any thing function wise as far as I can tell, I can live with highlighted symbol. :mrgreen:
Now I need to figure out how to program using 3 momentary switch to perform ID0,1,2 three position switch. :P
Just received my on/off switch yesterday to replace GEA,RUD, AIL, ELE. It is smaller than I expected. May have to get another type.
I also already ordered the trim switch for Flypanel: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380871128528?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

Now I just hope they can find MH137 quickly. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:55 pm

kaos wrote:.
For THR, it is an on/off right? only it is backwards with the momentary switch and f-flop function? If so why it is always highlighted?
Doesn't it change state when you turn the switch ON or OFF?
If it doesn't then you probably have an hardware problem and will have to check your wiring..

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:13 pm

THR is always highlighted. You sort of can see it blinks quickly when pressed but change back to highlighted. But it did perform its function on off on. There is virtually no circuit just one wire from connecting pin to switch to gnd.


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