Realistic Joy Stick Flying

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jhsa
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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:32 pm

Use the logical switch.
So:
L5 F-Flop TRN !L5

And then voice:

VA1 , Switch - L5
Rate - BOTH

Just like you program a normal voice alarm..

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:33 pm

I think my brain is flip flopping now. :lol:

Thx jhsa, that saves me a lot of time to swap out switches.
There are 6 buttons, two pots on the throttle handle and 3 available buttons on the base.
There are 3 buttons + 1 trigger + 1 micro joy stick (will turn into PS2 joy stick with 2 pots) on the Joystick handle and 2 available buttons on its base.
I think I am going to have more buttons than you now. :lol:

If my brain is flopping I will make the stick flops a little too. mapped and traced each wire where it is coming from and cut all the wires and circuit board out just leaves the wires to pots and buttons. all I need to do now is connect all 31 wires to proper place on the Tx, may be minus a few gnd wires. :o 31 wires! No wonder my brain is flip flopping. :lol: :mrgreen:
I think I need an EIDE cable to do this. ;)

Oops, still need to replace the small joystick to PS2 joystick.
AR9X board and the under-pillow-charm are not here yet, I think I will have plenty of time to get the little joystick ready.
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DSC03785.JPG

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kaos
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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:30 pm

I just realized replacing the micro joystick momentary button may not be a good idea. For FPV main cam I can use my head tracker to control the pan and tilt very well. This little micro joystick is better reserved for the control of the 2nd HD video camera or a laser cannon ;). Using the PS2 joystick, it will come back to center when finger is lifted off. I am thinking I want to point the video recording camera at a place I like to film by adjusting the pan and tilt little by little ( degree by degree) or continuous movement by holding the momentary switch and leave the angle stay there when finger is lift off.
I saw a thread about this programming:
L1 1-shot PB1 0.8 AND !PB1
L2 Ntimer 0.6 100 AND PB1

A1 GV1 +/Lim 81 L1 61
A2 GV1 add L1 39
A3 GV1 -/Lim PB2 -61
A4 GV1 add PB2 -39
A5 Set C L2 -100

This should be able to move the pan/tilt, one step at a time and leave the servo at its position? With four momentary switch total (2 for X, 2 for Y), I should be able to point the pan/tilt servo any where I want without using finger holding the knob once it reaches the angle.
Then set up another switch to center both axis when needed.
Is my understanding of the programming above correct?
And that will take a total of 8 Ls switches and 20 As to do. ;)

or is there a way to use the PS2 pot, but able to fix the servo at where I wanted by adding another switch while lifting off the figer from PS2 joystick?

I think jhsa's flip-flop got my brain all flipped up. :mrgreen:

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by LutzB » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:09 pm

Some time ago someone posted a similar configuration for your PS2 pot. The camera servos were moved with moving a slider. Not the position but the speed and direction of the servos was controlled with this. I think this was posted for the Taranis, but it may also be possible with your TX. I just cannot remember where I read this post. :?

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by SkyNorth » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:26 pm

This might be worth a look...
https://github.com/Iezious/rcjoy/wiki


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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:30 pm

Have a look on eepskye. Under templates, there is a "Progressive" template. This will ask for a source, channels and three logical switches to use, but will provide you with an output that stays put when the source is centered, and moves to either side as you move the source to either side, and moves faster the further you move the source.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:45 pm

Thx for the info. I will look into those and get back with you.


edit:
Wow, thx Mike. that thing did exactly what I want to do in the simulator, may be with a little adjustment on the parameters.
Now the momentary switch WILL BE replaced with the ps2 pot. I just need to figure out in my head exactly how that programming worked. :mrgreen:

Skynorth: now I will have 3 pots to test for the under-pillow-charm. ;)

edit2:
playing with the mix a little more, it performs flawlessly, can even add a variable pot to increase/decrease the rate of movement. Super!

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:27 am

OK, the PSP pot is in now. The original micro stick actually was using 4 momentary switches as X,Y movement.
Here is what it looks like:
DSC03789.JPG
4 momentary tac switches for X,Y axis movement
DSC03795.JPG
under the top cover, the cross was to lock those 4 switches in place
DSC03799.JPG
The PSP pot is very shallow, so have to grind down the cross for the PSP pot as close to the cover as possible
DSC03806.JPG
wala, it fits perfectly in the cover
DSC03807.JPG
I decided to grind down the switches to appropriate height, using it as 'backing' of the PSP pot.
DSC03808.JPG
solder the wires for the PSP
DSC03809.JPG
use the exiting circuit for the PSP wires. I left some extra wires length just for easier manipulation in case the pot goes bad needs to be replace.
DSC03810.JPG
This is what it looks like now without the button put on the pot. yes, the PSP knob has full movement 360 degree around.
NOw I just need to connect the Ail,Ele,Thr,Rud pot to the existing connector in the Tx. I intend to make those wires a connector, this way I can easily switch back to the original Tx pots.
The extra 3 pots on the Joystick (2 for PSP, one rocker) will be connected to the extra I/O that Skynorth is working on. So are as many buttons on the Joystick that Skynorth's extra I/O board can supply. There are 15 buttons available on the joystick/throttle stick. :mrgreen:
I will keep the original tx pots and switch as they are. The buttons on the joysticks are just for extra functions for this project. Eventually all switches/pots on the tx will go on a panel for final Pilot Fly Panel. :mrgreen:

Can someone point out where can I find a diagram of the existing tx where the thr/rud, ail/ele pot's wires goes? I back traced to 4 wires on the 9 pin connector and 4 on the 6 pin connector
9x_Main_PCB_Front a.jpg
but not sure which ones are V+ which ones are wiper wire. I like to get the connector ready before my AR9X board gets here then all I need to do is plug in the connector together.
For now the joystick's thr/rud/ele/ail will be just plugged in like these wires/plug coming out from the Tx until every thing is programed and tested before moving to a panel.
DSC03811.JPG
note the 24 little holes already drilled in the center grooves of the Tx for the AR9X spker to be placed. ;)

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:19 am

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by LTMNO » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:20 pm

download/file.php?id=218

This seems to be the document....
Custom 9x with M64/Telemetry Mod

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:17 pm

thx guys, with that scheme and with me actually measured each spot to check if I am reading it right. Here is what I get. I think it is a little easier to read for me. ;) Any mistake welcome to point out.
edit: updated pic
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Last edited by kaos on Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:38 am

Houston, we may have a problem. I was ready to join the joystick pots wires to Tx. Out of no where decided to check the pot resistance again before soldering. Wow these are actually 100K pots. I don't know how did I get those 20-30K measurement last time. Could powering on may change the reading last time?

question is whether 100K pots work with AR9X/sky board's 3.3V? that is 20 to 10 times more than 5-10K.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:46 am

You won't damage anything trying them. There are some parameters in the ADC that could be changed if the performance is poor.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:06 am

Isn't there a way of paralleling resistors with the pots so the overall resistance decreases?

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:18 am

No, you would have to add an op-amp as a buffer to lower the impedance.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:24 am

Thanks Mike, yeah I just found that out.. Thr pot wouldn't be linear anymore.. I think that if it doesn't work with the firmware approach you've mentioned, the op amp is the best thing to do..

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:21 pm

:ugeek: ok, I will hook them up today when i get home and see. Still could not figure out how I got a measurement around 30K previously. The original design running via USB, the circuit voltage was 3.3V when i measured it.
As long as there is A way to make it work, the op amp.☺
AR9X still not here yet, I will test it with the stock m128 board 1st. I believe it runs on 5V.
Last edited by kaos on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:31 pm

Because you probably had all pots connected. Don't forget that they all have +V on one side and GND on the other side. That means they are all in parallel. So when you read the resistance on one, you are actually measuring the resistance of tbe parallel of all pots.
If you have for example 2 100k pots in parallel, the combined resistance will be 50K. If 4 pots, the overall resistance will be 25K. That is probably why you saw a much smaller value when you measured..
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:34 pm

yep, I think you are right. I was measuring divider of dividers. :lol:

edit:
hmm, may be it will work, if the 'perceived' resistance is ~30K then when all pots are connected together, the result would be the same. Definitely will find this out when I get home. ;)

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:10 am

A quick question. If a pot's Vcc and GNd is connected backwards, any ill effect? I just need to reverse the ch in the tx should do it right?

if so, there are only 44 solder joints to be made to test run this thing. :mrgreen:

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:25 am

reverse the channel is one thing.. Reverse the stick is another thing..

Is the stick and the trim going in opposite directions? If so just swap VCC and GND at the pot.. Both outer wires..
Or go to the hardware menu and invert the sticks there..

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:12 am

As long as reversing the Vcc and Gnd won't burn up something, I am going to give a go/try. ;)
I am not sure I can tell which is Vcc and which is Gnd with certainty on each pot. The wire color is all mixed, no red/black for + or gnd. I think when I tested the resistance, I also tested the voltage, made a note which is + which is Gnd. But that was a few days ago. Not sure I really did it right. :mrgreen:
I actually did not touch the trim at all for now. Just hijacked the V,Ail, Ele, Gnd 4 wires from the 9 pin connnector to the joystick. ;) likely the trim for Ail, Ele is disconnected for now.
Just made the connection for Ail and Ele. Cross the finger it will work. ;) This is on stock m128 board running on 5V.

edit:
Yeah!!!!!! It worked. :) :) I think the note I made for Vcc, Gnd was correct. I just need to reverse in the limit menu to get it move it the right direction. The joystick works very well with the m128 5V. calibration no issue. tested with servo, running very smoothly with full movement.
found out one of the trim is not working because I hijaced the gnd from one of the trim. Actually I think there is more control with this 40 degree pot on joystick than the thumb stick because have to use full hand/arm to move the joystick, so 40 degree actually is quite a lot of movement compared to using fingers.
Alright, finished 20 solder joints, now it is time finished all 44 solder points. :lol:
Now the project is officially a go. All the extra pots, buttons on the joysticks will be ready to be connected when AR9X and Skynorth's board is here.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:54 am

As I said before, do not reverse a stick that is connected wrong by doing it in the Limits menu. if you do so it will still move in the wrong direction related to the trim. Either change the physical connection by swapping the wires at the pot or invert the input in the hardware menu. By using the limits for that you will be in for some unpleasant surprises and you will crash your model as soon as you trim it. It will also make it incompatible with other models created in other radios.
If you are spending your time to do this, at least do it right.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by SkyNorth » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:34 pm

Hi I finally got the co-pro board Programmed..these little guys are sure fussy about the speed that you do it at..
Mike: I installed "T167Boot1.hex" Is this what they will need so that things can be done through the SD Bootloader ?

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by MikeB » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:03 pm

I think so. I don't have that file, I just have T167Boot.hex, but I have "archived" a T167Boot0.hex.
My file is dated 5/10/2012, attached below.
This is what I have in the Github repository, the same as in the Googlecode repository.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:41 pm

jhsa wrote:As I said before, do not reverse a stick that is connected wrong by doing it in the Limits menu. if you do so it will still move in the wrong direction related to the trim. Either change the physical connection by swapping the wires at the pot or invert the input in the hardware menu. By using the limits for that you will be in for some unpleasant surprises and you will crash your model as soon as you trim it. It will also make it incompatible with other models created in other radios.
If you are spending your time to do this, at least do it right.

João
so you are saying the pot should move correctly with stick and trim, if not, reverse V/GND without changing limit-INV?
what if I reverse the trim to move the same direction as stick, then do the reverse in limit/INV. that should be the same right?
I am not sure what the hardware menu reverse is actually reversing, the trim or the pot?
How the signal from trim and pot goes hand in hand I never dig into it.
I have found the note, that I did track which wire is Vcc which in gnd on the joystick. May be they have them wired up differently from T9X.

The 3 little piece circuit boards for pots/trim in T9x is really unnecessarily too complex to track which goes where.
The reason I am saying this is because I have no limitation which port the wire goes. All the trim will be replaced with different one when in the FlyPanel. The existing trim button need a special molded cavity to fit in. On the FlyPanel I will just use a rocker momentary switch as trim button.

A side note: the diagram from Flygear had another mistake, the Ail, Ele wires is reversed. And I looked at my diagram which is correct. I found out after I attached the joy stick. change that in your record .:)
Last edited by kaos on Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by kaos » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:43 pm

SkyNorth wrote:Hi I finally got the co-pro board Programmed..these little guys are sure fussy about the speed that you do it at..
Mike: I installed "T167Boot1.hex" Is this what they will need so that things can be done through the SD Bootloader ?
I am glad I am not the only that was fuzzy in the past two days. :) 40 small wires bundled together surely made my brain fuzzy. :mrgreen:

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:30 pm

kaos wrote: so you are saying the pot should move correctly with stick and trim, if not, reverse V/GND without changing limit-INV?
Yes..

what if I reverse the trim to move the same direction as stick, then do the reverse in limit/INV. that should be the same right?
No, it will moving right according to YOUR trim, not according with the values most flight controllers need for example.
Normally when moving the sticks UP and to the RIGHT generates positive values. DOWN and to the LEFT generates negative values.. Check your other radios..
I am not sure what the hardware menu reverse is actually reversing, the trim or the pot?
The direction of the signal coming from the Pot. Please read the new er9x manual as it explains that very well..
You can find it here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6473

Please read pages 19 and 20

How the signal from trim and pot goes hand in hand I never dig into it.
I have found the note, that I did track which wire is Vcc which in gnd on the joystick. May be they have them wired up differently from T9X
.

They could be. That is what you have to find out. Take your time, don't rush things, measure..
The 3 little piece circuit boards for pots/trim in T9x is really unnecessarily too complex to track which goes where.
You knew from the beginning this wasn't going to be an easy task :) Of course it is not easy as you have to trace (and understand) every part of the circuit, and how it works.
So, for example, the wire that connects the left trim on the radio will be the same that connects the left trim on the Joystick. Also, make sure the sticks ground goes to the sticks and the trim switches's ground also goes to the trim switches on the joystick..
The reason I am saying this is because I have no limitation which port the wire goes. All the trim will be replaced with different one when in the FlyPanel.


You still need to keep things connected as they were on the radio.
The existing trim button need a special molded cavity to fit in. On the FlyPanel I will just use a rocker momentary switch as trim button.
Like a double momentary switch with no connection on the middle position? Then Ground on the middle pin.. If left and right are wrong, just turn the switch arround ;) :) Easy :D

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by SkyNorth » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:34 pm

I will send you two some LM324 Quad op-amps + a small piece of breadboard along with the co-proc
these can be used to Buffer Kaos' 100K pots . and Joao can use them as buffered voltage divider
to feed his 5V Hall output sensors into to get a 3V A/D level.
I also have the JST connector shells and terminals to make cables if you need
-Brent

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Re: Realistic Joy Stick Flying

Post by jhsa » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:40 pm

Great, thanks..
Can the LM324 outputs be adjusted?

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