Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several RXs
Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several RXs
Hi all!
I just registered to this great forum. Very informative, and i want to ask if anyone has heared of the following problem. I have found little information and some people writing about this but no conclusion or fix (without switching to another TX-module and receivers like FrSky which i would like to avoid if possible).
My Turnigy 9X (v2, bought at hobbyking in 3-2011, modded with er9x firmware, 1k resistor mod, powered by two trustfire li-ion 3,7V cells, otherwise stock) has a drift on all channels (around the same amount)
in the first ~30 minutes after powering on the received values of each channel vary from 1460 to 1510, where 1500 would be center-position of each stick.
The sticks are calibrated (Several times) and on display the value of each stick is zero. Just the received signal of either the original 8ch-RX or two different HK-TR6A i tested contain this drift.
After the mentioned time of about 30 minutes the drift seems to stop. In time before that the transmitter is virtually unusable; my different quadcopters (multiwii) all drift heavily and are unflyable.
has anyone experienced this and found a fix using the original tx-module? please help, i dont want to wait 30 minutes each time before flying and waste battery time
I just registered to this great forum. Very informative, and i want to ask if anyone has heared of the following problem. I have found little information and some people writing about this but no conclusion or fix (without switching to another TX-module and receivers like FrSky which i would like to avoid if possible).
My Turnigy 9X (v2, bought at hobbyking in 3-2011, modded with er9x firmware, 1k resistor mod, powered by two trustfire li-ion 3,7V cells, otherwise stock) has a drift on all channels (around the same amount)
in the first ~30 minutes after powering on the received values of each channel vary from 1460 to 1510, where 1500 would be center-position of each stick.
The sticks are calibrated (Several times) and on display the value of each stick is zero. Just the received signal of either the original 8ch-RX or two different HK-TR6A i tested contain this drift.
After the mentioned time of about 30 minutes the drift seems to stop. In time before that the transmitter is virtually unusable; my different quadcopters (multiwii) all drift heavily and are unflyable.
has anyone experienced this and found a fix using the original tx-module? please help, i dont want to wait 30 minutes each time before flying and waste battery time
- MikeB
- 9x Developer
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- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
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- Location: Poole, Dorset, UK
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
It sounds as though a crystal frequency is drifting, either the transmitter or the Tx module.
If you know someone else with a compatible Tx module, it is worth trying that.
For the Tx itself, switch on, and set a timer running. Time it with a stopwatch over at least 30 seconds, obviously you should get 30 seconds. Repeat after half an hour, do you still get 30 seconds. The error you are reporting amounts to 1 second in 30, so you should notice the difference if the transmitter is drifting.
How are you measuring the servo signal? You could also try removing the Tx module and measuring the pulses out from the transmitter on the pins to the Tx module, the PPM stream is 5 volts only.
Mike.
If you know someone else with a compatible Tx module, it is worth trying that.
For the Tx itself, switch on, and set a timer running. Time it with a stopwatch over at least 30 seconds, obviously you should get 30 seconds. Repeat after half an hour, do you still get 30 seconds. The error you are reporting amounts to 1 second in 30, so you should notice the difference if the transmitter is drifting.
How are you measuring the servo signal? You could also try removing the Tx module and measuring the pulses out from the transmitter on the pins to the Tx module, the PPM stream is 5 volts only.
Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Hey MikeB, thanks for your reply!
I don't know anyone with a compatible Tx module, but i think the Tx-module is the reason for this drift. The timer on my TX seems to work correctly. It measures exact seconds after powerup and after 30 minutes.
I measured the drift within the MultiWii-Configuration software when i said it drifts between 1460 and 1510 yesterday. Today i have done another test to rule out MultiWii-problems. I connected only a Servo and BEC to a new TR6A-Receiver and setup a new model on my 9X. I ziptied a pencil to the servo-horn and marked the center point of the servo after power-up. Then i recorded it for around 25 minutes without touching the TX. You can see the result here: (Sorry for the bad picture quality)
http://youtu.be/fpshUu0RnLw
As you can see the drift is very large, i would say around 5-10 °
This concludes that the drift is really there and not only a problem of my receiving end (MultiWii board)
If anyone has any more tests i could do, i would be glad to hear from you. Thank you!
I don't know anyone with a compatible Tx module, but i think the Tx-module is the reason for this drift. The timer on my TX seems to work correctly. It measures exact seconds after powerup and after 30 minutes.
I measured the drift within the MultiWii-Configuration software when i said it drifts between 1460 and 1510 yesterday. Today i have done another test to rule out MultiWii-problems. I connected only a Servo and BEC to a new TR6A-Receiver and setup a new model on my 9X. I ziptied a pencil to the servo-horn and marked the center point of the servo after power-up. Then i recorded it for around 25 minutes without touching the TX. You can see the result here: (Sorry for the bad picture quality)
http://youtu.be/fpshUu0RnLw
As you can see the drift is very large, i would say around 5-10 °
This concludes that the drift is really there and not only a problem of my receiving end (MultiWii board)
If anyone has any more tests i could do, i would be glad to hear from you. Thank you!
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
i posted a longer reply yesterday, but it does not seem to show up (don't know if it was not approved or if its just a forum/connection issue on my side)
what i said was something like this: i stopwatched the timer and it counts "real" seconds after powerup and after 30 minutes as well. I really think it has something to do with the TX-module getting warm (there is a 7805 voltage regulator inside burning around 7V and getting quite hot).
The drift can be seen in MultiWii-Configuration software where the stick positions are shown between 1000 and 2000, with 1500 being center. My RX receives values around 1460 after powering on the TX and around 1510-1520 after 20-30 minutes. But to rule out MultiWii-problem i connected a servo to a fresh TR6A-receiver and just powered it via BEC. You can see the result in this video: http://youtu.be/fpshUu0RnLw (Speed up from ~25 minutes to just under one minute)
It is a real problem with this TX(module)... so if anyone has any idea i would be very glad to hear! thanks!
what i said was something like this: i stopwatched the timer and it counts "real" seconds after powerup and after 30 minutes as well. I really think it has something to do with the TX-module getting warm (there is a 7805 voltage regulator inside burning around 7V and getting quite hot).
The drift can be seen in MultiWii-Configuration software where the stick positions are shown between 1000 and 2000, with 1500 being center. My RX receives values around 1460 after powering on the TX and around 1510-1520 after 20-30 minutes. But to rule out MultiWii-problem i connected a servo to a fresh TR6A-receiver and just powered it via BEC. You can see the result in this video: http://youtu.be/fpshUu0RnLw (Speed up from ~25 minutes to just under one minute)
It is a real problem with this TX(module)... so if anyone has any idea i would be very glad to hear! thanks!
- MikeB
- 9x Developer
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
I reckon you have just about proved it is the Tx module being a problem.
Where in the world are you? Someone from the forum might be close enough to help with an alternative module for testing.
Mike.
Where in the world are you? Someone from the forum might be close enough to help with an alternative module for testing.
Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Hi,
i would be glad if someone could borrow or even sell me an alternative "original" 9X module for testing this... i am in germany, btw.
I tought this would probably be normal for a HK-TX at this price, but if others do not experience this drift i would be happy if i could stop it from drifting
thanks again!
i would be glad if someone could borrow or even sell me an alternative "original" 9X module for testing this... i am in germany, btw.
I tought this would probably be normal for a HK-TX at this price, but if others do not experience this drift i would be happy if i could stop it from drifting
thanks again!
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Hi there,
I noticed the drift also. It is the Tx-Module for sure. Some hungarian guys noticed that too:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/foru ... ?TID=15944
Seems that the microcontrollers internal oscillator is not temperature-stable.
I dis some tests by heatig the microcontroller on the TX-Board to confirm that.
Thats what i measured (without any external heating) with a Turnigy- and a FlySky TX-Module, using an UniTest2:
http://www.sm-modellbau.de/shop/product ... =5&cPath=6
Steini
from Germany too (Seelze near Hannover)
I noticed the drift also. It is the Tx-Module for sure. Some hungarian guys noticed that too:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/foru ... ?TID=15944
Seems that the microcontrollers internal oscillator is not temperature-stable.
I dis some tests by heatig the microcontroller on the TX-Board to confirm that.
Thats what i measured (without any external heating) with a Turnigy- and a FlySky TX-Module, using an UniTest2:
http://www.sm-modellbau.de/shop/product ... =5&cPath=6
Code: Select all
servo-impulse-length
Turnigy FlySky
min:sec µsec µsec
00:00 1494 1496
00:30 1506 1510
01:00 1511 1516
01:30 1512 1516
02:00 1513 1519
03:00 1517 1524
04:00 1520 1527
06:00 1523 1532
08:00 1525 1534
10:00 1527 1536
20:00 1530 1541
from Germany too (Seelze near Hannover)
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Hi Steini,
thanks for the info. So that means that probably a series of FlySky / Turnigy TXs (Supposedly sold beginning - mid 2011) has this bug because it is missing a quartz crystal, and the internal oscillator is temperature dependent. That is really sad, but it confirms my findings. So i'm out of luck and can only find someone to sell me a non-drifting Turnigy TX Module (if that really exists...)
Thanks all!
thanks for the info. So that means that probably a series of FlySky / Turnigy TXs (Supposedly sold beginning - mid 2011) has this bug because it is missing a quartz crystal, and the internal oscillator is temperature dependent. That is really sad, but it confirms my findings. So i'm out of luck and can only find someone to sell me a non-drifting Turnigy TX Module (if that really exists...)
Thanks all!
- MikeB
- 9x Developer
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
If you need to change to a different Tx module seriously consider getting the FrSky module and receivers.
Mike.
Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
- GrootWitbaas
- Posts: 358
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Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several RXs
I have two modules here, will test them, if one does not drift you can have it, but you should look at frsky like said above, the are great (and if you get the right ones you have telemetry as well)
Groot
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Groot
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General trouble maker and wannabee Dev
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Hey Groot,
thanks for your reply! Would be nice to hear if you have a module without drift. I am also considering to get a FrSky module, but right now i can't afford it. (The module itself is not that expensive, but i would also have to buy 4 receivers
thanks for your reply! Would be nice to hear if you have a module without drift. I am also considering to get a FrSky module, but right now i can't afford it. (The module itself is not that expensive, but i would also have to buy 4 receivers
- Rob Thomson
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Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several RXs
You could always buy one rx... Then just swap the module when not flying the frsky based plane?
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
I exchanged the original module for a FRSky and updated firmware to ER9X on my 9X, but the drift is still there!
Has anyone found a solution for that?
Has anyone found a solution for that?
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
A fan.
Could low voltage be a cause for the drift ? The original poster said he uses 2s...
Could low voltage be a cause for the drift ? The original poster said he uses 2s...
- ShowMaster
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
How about heating and cooling the TX boards crystal and other circuitry to see if it causes drift?
SM
SM
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
I'd start thinking of a bad crystal/oscillator circuitry too...
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
So the drift only appears after the receiver? Does it also show up on the 9x display? Maybe you can check the numbers display screen, and report what that does. I also like showmaster's idea. I would suggest using a hair dryer, too much heat and you will melt/desolder parts.
-Gohst
-Gohst
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
He said in the first post that values weren't moving on the screen, and all channels were drifting. That's what would happen if the clock speed was varying. As he has already ruled out TX module and receiver, there's not much choice left...
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
I'm testing now my turnigy, first with original module (Eurgle detachable) and a original 8ch receiver...
For now nothing to notice, fortunately... as said Drjames i think it's a faulty stock of radio with bad oscillators...
For now nothing to notice, fortunately... as said Drjames i think it's a faulty stock of radio with bad oscillators...
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
ok no problem after 30 minutes of use, with a 3s Lipo fully charge (use this battery can test the high temp.)
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Use a thin piece of cardboard to section off the main pcb components when using a hair drier. For example, place the cardboard in between the crystal and atmel cpu, heat just the crystal and not the cpu. If the crystal does not show the problem, keep going, sectioning off a few more components at a time till you find it. I have located 0402 (real small for people that dont know) components that either have intermittent operation or thermal problems using the thin card board and a heat gun. It might turn out to be a bad solder connection or low quality caps in the crystal circuit, if you replace the caps, use X5R or X7R types.
Good luck,
Oz
Good luck,
Oz
- ShowMaster
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
I'm just thinking,
Has anyone done this test using a ersky9x board and the different brands of tx modules including a DSM modified er9x?
ShowMaster
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Has anyone done this test using a ersky9x board and the different brands of tx modules including a DSM modified er9x?
ShowMaster
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
I was annoyed, because some time, just switching on the Tx, Rx and launching the plane, a perfectly trimmed plane during previous session was significantly diving. I ried to reproduce this thread setup, and I have the same type of behaviour: drift for the first 15-20 minutes, easy to reproduce from test to tests. About 4° servo arm drift....Velociraptor73 wrote:I exchanged the original module for a FRSky and updated firmware to ER9X on my 9X, but the drift is still there!
Has anyone found a solution for that?
Is it really uncommon on 9X, or if I buy another one, I will have the same ?
I have another Tx module. I'll test with it; but I already changed a module, and I think that I had the problem before.
Regards,
JMF
- MikeB
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
You have three processors involved (Tx, TX module, Rx), all being crystal controlled, so they should not drift by 4%. However, if any one of these crystals is drifting you will see the effect you describe.
Mike.
Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Hi
I tried with another Flysky Tx module, and this other one does not drift at all...
So it seems that it is like a lottery
I don't know if a tweak has been identified to fix drifting Tx modules (4° drifting over 20 minutes is quite dangerous for the plane).
Regards,
JM
I tried with another Flysky Tx module, and this other one does not drift at all...
So it seems that it is like a lottery
I don't know if a tweak has been identified to fix drifting Tx modules (4° drifting over 20 minutes is quite dangerous for the plane).
Regards,
JM
Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Yep there is one - switch to frskyjmf wrote:I don't know if a tweak has been identified to fix drifting Tx modules
- ShowMaster
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Re: Temperature Drift / 9X, er9x, Turnigy TX Module, several
Maybe I missed it but what's your tx voltage. Since the tx module only needs 5 volts or maybe 3.3volts the regulator has to drop the excess. Being linear it all goes to heat in the module. Is it possible this could contribute to the excesses drift? Some module components being more heat sensitive in various modules?
Just thinking?
Maybe Frsky would be a way to go as sugested?
ShowMaster
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Just thinking?
Maybe Frsky would be a way to go as sugested?
ShowMaster
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