Taranis Gimals in a 9X

[Kilrah]

You're not missing anything, swapping the wires is perfectly good with the normal gimbals, some may just consider that too cumbersome.

[jhsa]

what I didn't and still don't understand is why not having the stick reverse function in the OS is supposed to be a problem, since as I get it the non amplified gimbals don't usually require a software stick reverse.

But the amplified do need the stick reverse.
Even if they are not sold anymore, many people like myself have them installed because we modded our radios back then..
without that option, there is no way we could reverse the sticks, and it would be needed..

João

[Kilrah]

He's only getting confused because you repeatedly insist on the stick reverse option being important when it doesn't matter in his case...
Yes it's important for those who have amplified gimbals, BUT that has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

[jhsa]

He's only getting confused because you repeatedly insist on the stick reverse option being important when it doesn't matter in his case...

Wrong
I didn't insist on anything because I didn't post anything before about this subject. I only posted above because he said he didn't understand, so I explained.
But even if I did, it might not help him, but it could help someone else
João

[bob195558]

You're not missing anything, swapping the wires is perfectly good with the normal gimbals,.

Hi Nadim,
I do not understand your grievance, you have two ways to make your gimbal pots work in the correct direction.
Get over it ! Just do it !

Also use a multimeter and check which wire are used for the + 5 volts, Ground and Signal wire from your 9x radio to each pot.
It will help you a lot.

Bob B.

[jhsa]

My version of OpenTX does have the stick reverse function, so I assume that if some control out to be reversed after installing the gimbals, I will just use this function to fix it, instead of messing up with wires etc.

And by the way, as you can see if you read his post, it does matter to his case.

João

[Kilrah]

Wrong
I didn't insist on anything because I didn't post anything before about this subject

I was saying "you" in the context of "everybody who's been confusing him in this thread", not only just you. He described his situation perfecty well but was constantly being fed info that didn't matter given his situation. At this point in his place you start thinking it might actually matter and get confused.

[jhsa]

Ahhh, forgot English uses the same work for the plural
I don't think someone is trying to confuse anyone here though. (Bad English I know, but you get what I mean )

João

[Kilrah]

Nobody is trying, but what they said had that effect -> best to think twice about the person's situation before posting the first thing you think of

[jhsa]

I think what is was said is pretty much valid and helpful in any situation.. I actually believe that the stick reverse option is needed in all platforms that support the upgrade of the gimbals. The reason is, after you solder the wires, if the direction is wrong, you have to cut 2 wires again and re-solder them.
As Bob mentioned before, The colors of the wires mean nothing to the people that produce the 9x radio, so you can't know for sure if you are soldering the wires correctly. last time I did it, they even swapped the color of the signal (Middle) wire with one of the others. That could have damaged my radio and / or the gimbal.
So, for someone that is not used to do this, I can see that it can be overwhelming. The option in the firmware at least gives people the change of putting things right without messing with the hardware again..
So, even on his situation, this was helpful, as he said he might prefer to change the setting in the firmware than messing about with the wires again.
Of course IF YOU KNOW FOR SURE where every single wire should be connected, it is better to have it done with the hardware, but most don't..
Kilrah, how many times did you install these gimbals in a 9x radio?? I'm asking because you don't seem to know how easy it makes having that option in the firmware, specially for people that never did the mod..
I replaced the gimbals on all my four 9x radios, all with different platforms (boards) inside. Ok, one of them has hall sensors, not the taranis gimbals, but 3 of them do
I'm sure there are people that did mod many more radios than I did..

João

[Nadim]

Ok everybody

First of all, thank you all for the infos.

I actually also have to make some apologies:

1) I was trying to gather some information BEFORE actually starting to mod my TX, 'cause I'm also having trouble with the upgrade of OpenTX, and if there was a function that I needed, and maybe didn't know it was missing, I'd have put that while upgrading, instead of having to upgrade again later. Now, it turns out that I already had that function, so OK.

2) I should have read both the wiki and this thread better; probably if I had read them carefully while actually working at it, everything would have been clearer from the beginning. Again, I was gathering preliminary data before starting (I also still don't have the second gimbal, and it's gonna take a couple of weeks I am afraid... in the meantime I might be installing the right one maybe... )

3) Sometime, I end up sticking with 'pure principle', and tend to ignore actual practice (I know, this is bad, I don't like it either), so yes Kilrah is right when he said that I eventually was staring to think that it actually mattered and got confused about how is how in the first place. So what I was actually trying to understand is whether the stick reverse is an absolute necessity or just a convenient and handy way to save work. Now I get why you were saying that "it's just better to have it, 'cause it saves a lot of work". Ok, mine was just a... principle thing, and I wouldn't surely being desoldering and soldering again until I get it right. So let me summarize:

amplified gimbal = stick reverse necessary; non-amplified gimbals = stick reverse not strictly necessary but damn useful and convenient.

So... just get it any case.

Thank you very much!
I hope to get the second gimbal soon (and to solve the firmw flashing problem with OpenTX...)

P.S. So far the feeling of the gimbal is very good

[jhsa]

o let me summarize:

amplified gimbal = stick reverse necessary; non-amplified gimbals = stick reverse not strictly necessary but damn useful and convenient.

You got it
But let me just add, that unless you do measurements, and know for sure how the pot has to be connected to give the right direction of travel, you might have to try a couple times to find it out, if doing it in hardware. That means soldering and desoldering. And also there are 2 ways the people normally install the gimbals. Some reverse one of the gimbals so they don't have to cut the back PCB, and some don't. This means some might have to reverse some sticks, and some might have to reverse the other sticks
I personally prefer the reversed gimbal method. See here: I did the soldering a few times to find out the connections for my radio without reversing in software.. But THAT WAS VALID FOR 2 OF MY RADIOS. It might be different for your radio.

viewtopic.php?f=126&t=7987

P.S. So far the feeling of the gimbal is very good

They are quite good..

João

[Daedalus66]

I think we all got to the same understanding in the end.

My apologies for contributing to the confusion by not adequately checking my sources. As far as I can see now OpenTX does provide Stick Reverse for the 9x.

Anyway, I learned something useful and am now preparing to install original type Taranis gimbals in a 9x with 9Xtreme board.

[Nadim]

o let me summarize:

amplified gimbal = stick reverse necessary; non-amplified gimbals = stick reverse not strictly necessary but damn useful and convenient.

You got it
But let me just add, that unless you do measurements, and know for sure how the pot has to be connected to give the right direction of travel, you might have to try a couple times to find it out, if doing it in hardware. That means soldering and desoldering. And also there are 2 ways the people normally install the gimbals. Some reverse one of the gimbals so they don't have to cut the back PCB, and some don't. This means some might have to reverse some sticks, and some might have to reverse the other sticks
I personally prefer the reversed gimbal method. See here: I did the soldering a few times to find out the connections for my radio without reversing in software.. But THAT WAS VALID FOR 2 OF MY RADIOS. It might be different for your radio.

viewtopic.php?f=126&t=7987

I already saw the PCB cutting part, and already kinda decided that I'll try avoid that as much as I can. I think I'll do as you suggest, namely cut that 3 mm on the gimbal itself. Thank you for the hint anyway.

(All in all I decided I can't resist waiting till the next gimbal arrives, and I'll be starting working at the first one over the weekend, starting with the left stick, that in my case is thr/ail, so that IF the next one from Banggood will be metal-crossbarred, I can use it in the right stick, that I somehow consider to be more 'important' in the mode I fly. Not that it'll make a big difference, as I use somehow soft springs, but you know, just to feel better myself. )

Anyway, I checked your thread about 9x mods, and wow, I'm impressed, you did amazing mods!

To be honest there's something I've come to wonder about, and that after having seen your thread I'm curious to ask you about. Do people that mod the 9x that much just... like playing around with electrical stuff, or is there another reason you don't... just buy a Taranis?

I mean, 'cause that's the exact question I'm asking myself now. I've own the 9x for about 1 and half year, and I haven't modded it that much, but if I think about the mods I did, I am now telling myself "what's the point of Taranizing that much the 9x? Why don't just getting a Taranis in the first place?! It might have been cheaper at the end!" Here's what I did:

1. Smartieparts board and flashed OpenTX ($ 35)
2. LCD backlight ($ 5)
3. Changed the module to Frsky DJT Telemetry and RX ($ 60 or so)
4. Now I am about to replace the gimbals with... the Taranis ones! (around $ 30)

...that is, 60 bucks for the TX itself plus 130 for the above = 190 bucks for a Taranized 9x. If you think that the next thing I'd love to do is to add sliders... well... I'll just keep the 9x as it is and save the money for the Horus.

[Nadim]

I think we all got to the same understanding in the end.

My apologies for contributing to the confusion by not adequately checking my sources. As far as I can see now OpenTX does provide Stick Reverse for the 9x.

Absolutely not, MY apologies for the above. Anyway yes, probably I'll get a better picture of the whole thing starting from this weekend, already excited to see how it'll turn out!

Anyway, I learned something useful and am now preparing to install original type Taranis gimbals in a 9x with 9Xtreme board.

This somehow confirms what I wrote before to Joao: it must be the case that we have this "let's Taranize the 9x" bug!

[jhsa]

I don't think I'm Taranizing my 9x radios.
First, I don't like the feel of the taranis.
Taranis doesn't have a rotary encoder like all my 9x have..
Taranis has those horrible (in my opinion) programming buttons.
Taranis doesn't support bidirectional trainer over bluetooth.
And I don't use openTX. I use Ersky9x on all my modded 9x radios. Opentx doesn't support replacing the 2 position switches with 3 position switches, or adding extra switches and pots..
And also there's the "play with electronics" factor of course
I omly use the taranis gimbals because they are cheap and quite good. I have modded one of my 9x radio's gimbals with hall sensors..

João

[Nadim]

Taranis doesn't have a rotary encoder like all my 9x have..
João

I checked in your signature: here's where I saw your rotary encoder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1JzCgNYkQc

it seems handy

I am actually quite satisfied with the OpenTX capability of using the 9x stock pots as rotary encoders. Not even close to a real one, but enough for my needs.

[jhsa]

that's the important thing.. That it does what we need until we need more

João

[Daedalus66]

I do like the Taranis with ErSky9x, though I would like it better with a rotary encoder.

The buttons are not horrible, just not great, though it took a while to get used to the layout.

My priority now is a 9Xtreme with rotary encoder and Taranis sticks.

[MikeB]

If running ersky9x on the Taranis, there is an option to replace one of the pots with a rotary encoder, and on the plus, there is a spare analog input that could be used if you can find somewhere extra to physically mount it.

See: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=5603&hilit=encoder#p79960.

Mike.

[Nadim]

I am about to have the left gimbal replace, and all of a sudden I have this doubt.

Do I while replacing the gimbals make any sort of change to the grounding of the trims?

I refer to this: http://openrcforums.com/wiki/index.php/ ... Ground_Fix

I did that modding a while ago, and now I suppose that the gimbals have nothing to do, and thus that I can just leave things as they are, but you know, to be 100% sure...

Thank you

[jhsa]

If running ersky9x on the Taranis, there is an option to replace one of the pots with a rotary encoder, and on the plus, there is a spare analog input that could be used if you can find somewhere extra to physically mount it.

See: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=5603&hilit=encoder#p79960.

Mike.

Yes that is true Mike.. I have something similar on my 9XR-PRO, But i found out I seldom use it.
I think the encoder we use on the 9x radio makes really a big difference.

João

[jhsa]

I am about to have the left gimbal replace, and all of a sudden I have this doubt.

Do I while replacing the gimbals make any sort of change to the grounding of the trims?

I refer to this: http://openrcforums.com/wiki/index.php/ ... Ground_Fix

I did that modding a while ago, and now I suppose that the gimbals have nothing to do, and thus that I can just leave things as they are, but you know, to be 100% sure...

Thank you

You shouldn't have to do anything with the trims to replace the gimbals.. They are completely different circuits.

João

[Nadim]

Hello guys,

I managed to install the first gimbal (left one) successfully, and I'm quite satisfied.

After having installed it, I was playing with the TX, calibrating sticks and the like, and I think I discovered an unknown bug that affects the 9x of which I had never heard before. It's a bug that involves the pots. I tried with two 9xs and they behave in exactly the same way, ruling pretty much out the possibility of a simply fault component.

Now, I'd like to open a thread about it, but I have a problem: I don't know if it's OS-related or hardware related. If it's the OS, then I guess that this forum is the place, but couldn't find something like "report a bug" section under the section dedicated to the 9x.

Where shoud I write it?

EDIT: I found the right section. It's here if you're interested viewtopic.php?f=95&t=8616&p=112937#p112937

[kbadra]

Hello Guys,

has anyone measured the dimensions of the stick gimbal assembly? Is it possible to use it in other radio brands? I know they can be used in Hitec Aurora 9, Taranis and 9X, but i have a Futaba broken radio. I am thinking about replacing it by PR10. Is it possible? What are the dimensions, the holes positions and distances?

[bob195558]

Hi kbadra,
Taranis Gimbals: the 4 bolt hole sizes are about .103 Dia. (inch).
And they are about 2.1475 inches from each other.
The round face circle is about 1.890 inches Dia.
From the round face circle to back side about 1.400 inch.

Taranis Gimbals

Aloft Hobbies Alloy Crossbar for FrSky Taranis Gimbals: (https://alofthobbies.com/alloy-crossbar ... mbals.html).

Taranis Gimbal Crossbar Upgrade.

My understanding for the alloy crossbar upgrade is to help with repeat-ability of the Gimbal Control Sticks
back to there center positions.

Bob B.

[kbadra]

Thanks bob195558! It will be very helpful

[Nadim]

For anyone who's considering the upgrade (and is interested in the metal crossarms thing), I just wanted to say that I got my second gimbal from Banggood (the only one that's now listed, being the other one permanently out of stock, it seems) and this one HAS metal crossarms.

But!... here's the thing: now that I've tried it, I am not so sure it always has to be seen as a good thing. I guess it depends on the kind of use you have in mind: if you like strong springs (maybe if you changed the spring themselves with stronger ones), then yes maybe metal crossarms are less prone to bend, and thus you'll gain a more linear feeling and increased precision.

However, if you, like me, are not a big fan of strong springs (I tighten the stock springs at around 70% of their strength), then there's some sort of drawback, which is: centering feels different. Before, when the stick centered, the plastic arm was somewhat softening the collision with the shaft, absorbing part of the shock, making also a deep nice 'tuc' noise, but now when the arms hit the little shaft you have a less softer collision and can hear a high pitch 'click' noise, like metal against metal.

Well, let's state out clearly that we are talking here about a very subtle difference, it's not that this will change your life, but, just to say, I did prefer having a softer centering.

Also, bear in mind that the metal crossarms that the gimbals are shipped now with are NOT the same you find on alofthobbies. The ones from alofthobbies are thicker, and resemble the original ones in plastic in shape, whereas these new ones are much thinner and lighter, and have some sort of light coating that looks like transparent plastic or the like.

EDIT: Today I had my actual first flight with the new metal crossarmed right gimbal, and... I am afraid I have to say that I prefer the plastic one. It's funny isn't it? I was wanting to make sure that it had the metal crossarm before I bought it and now I realize I prefer the plastic one

[bob195558]

My understanding the FrSky Taranis Gimbals upgraded alloy crossbar is to help with the accuracy of the
Gimbals Control Sticks to return to there center positions.
The upgraded alloy crossbar may not be so much to how the Gimbals feel, but to improve return to center accuracy.

I have upgraded six 9x-radios to FrSky Taranis Gimbals and a few times I have had to do some small repairs
like some came with extra small wires and needed re-soldering of the wires back to the pot.
After I had upgraded one 9x-radio with the 9Xtreme Board, the Taranis Gimbal throttle pot indicated
it was not holding calibration (or returning to center position) when moving the control stick.
My investigation showed when pulling the throttle pot wires slightly in both directions,
the pot was shifting slightly back and forth causing this problem.
My fix was to place a small dab of glue on one side of the pot, which prevented it from moving.
There has been no trouble with it since and so maybe some of the FrSky Gimbal failings to
return back to center position maybe caused by the pot shifting slightly back and forth.

Bob B.

[Nadim]

I actually hot glued the wires close to the point they were attached to the pot, 'cause I didn't want them to move around when I moved the stick.

But anyway, the thing is that in my case the left gimbal (plastic crossarms) holds the center better than the right one (metal crossarms)! :-O

But it's still very precise (muuuch more precise than the original 9x gimbals), and I guess is not necessarily representative of the fact that the plastic one 'always' holds the center better: it might be just random. Anyway, these are the values I get:

left gimbal (plastic): +/- 0.2 (but out of 10 times I move the stick, 9 times it just center perfectly to 0.0, only 1 out of 10 it would stay 0.2)

right gimbal (metal): +/- 0.2 on one axis and +/- 0.5 on the other (not always, but more often than the plastic one)

Anyway, centering precision aside, I think that for me, I still prefer the plastic one. And now that I think about it... I got to check if the original 9x plastic arms can be used with the Taranis', because if they can, I am thinking about replacing the metal ones with those...