Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (CR10 3D Printer)

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bob195558
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Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (CR10 3D Printer)

Post by bob195558 » Tue May 01, 2018 12:01 pm

Difficulty getting your 3D Print to sticking to your Print Bed ?

If and when you are having difficulty with your 3D print sticking to Print Bed,
there are many things which can cause this problem, which some are:

1) Printing Z-Gap between Nozzle and Print Bed is improper.
2) Print Bed not level (Tramming) (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... 85&t=10815).
3) Print Bed surface is dirty (with oil and debris).
4) Print Bed surface does not have the proper printing temperature setting.
5) Different band of filament.
6) Moisture in filament.
7) Using a poor quality band of filament.
8) Bad Gcode.
9) 3D SLICER program needs its settings made proper to correct bad writen Gcode.
10) Broken Hardware.
11) Failed hardware (worn out and/or not adjusted properly hardware.
12) Bad build surface (no to little adhesion to printing surface).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been trying many of the common fixes or methods to obtain Proper Print Bed Adhesion.

1) tape
2) glue stick
3) hair spray
4) stick on build surface

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday I tried something new and it seem to be working very well.
3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive Wrap For Car 1500 X 300 mm Sticker Self Adhesive:
(https://www.ebay.com/itm/323221113409)

Vinyl Adhesive Wrap.jpg
Vinyl Adhesive Wrap, For Cars that looks like Carbon Fiber
Last edited by bob195558 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:56 am, edited 6 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).


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bob195558
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Re: Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:57 pm

I applied the Vinyl Adhesive Car Wrap to one of the (Home Depot) Glacier Bay 12 x 12 inch,
Plain Edge Bath Mirrors (6-Pack): (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Glacier-Bay ... /205513215).
Applying this car Vinyl Adhesive carefully so that there is no air bubbles was easily done
and after cutting it to fit around the top edge of the mirror, it looked very good.
How to install video: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... mlK_NUC0cY)
and (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzY2LzDjquU).

Also because I am using the TH3D EZABL mod (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... 85&t=10815)
and with the different thicknesses of glass and/or mirrors, the EZABL auto-adjusted so that there is
no need to manually re-adjust the Z-Gap between the Print Nozzle and Print Bed.


3D Vinyl Adhesive Print Bed.jpg
3D Vinyl Adhesive Print Bed Surface
Last edited by bob195558 on Tue May 08, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
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Location: New England, Vermont
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Re: Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Sat May 05, 2018 2:47 pm

3D Printing using the Car Vinyl Adhesive Wrap


3D Print using Vinyl Adhesive Wrap.jpg
Using Car Vinyl Wrap applied to 12" x 12" Mirror
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
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Re: EZMat Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Tue May 08, 2018 1:56 pm

Just received the TH3D EZMat Build Surface for my CR10, so will try this soon
to compare it to the 3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive Wrap.

TH3D EZMat Build Surface.jpg
TH3D EZMat Build Surface for CR10
Works with filament types (PLA, PETG, ABS, PC, ASA, TPE/TPU, and Nylon).
0.6mm Thick for durability and longevity – Can be installed directly on the bed or glass.
Once you start losing adhesion, just lightly sand surface with 100 grit sandpaper
to bring adhesion back to like new TH3D EZMat Build Surface !
You can find the TH3D EZMat Build Surface here: (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/th3d ... -s5-sizes/).

Looks good, lets see how it works !
Last edited by bob195558 on Wed May 16, 2018 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
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Re: EZMat Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Tue May 08, 2018 8:17 pm

The first results using the new TH3D EZMat Build Surface is that my first Test Print Part sticks a lot,
even after the TH3D EZMat Build Surface has cooled down.
So using the new TH3D EZMat Build Surface I find it has a very high adhesion to the Heated Print Bed Surface.
After the TH3D EZMat Surface had cooled down and taking my time to carefully get my Test Print Part to release,
I was able to get this done without damaging the new TH3D EZMat Build Surface.

TH3D EZMat test Part.jpg
new TH3D EZMat with first Test Part

Note: I found when beginning the first Test Print part, the TH3D EZABL Z-Offset did not maintain its
proper Printing Gap between the Nozzle and Printing Bed.
I had to change the Z-Offset setting by adding 2mm to correct this difference Z-Offset between the
3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive Wrap Printing Surface and/or the Glass Printing Surface.
Remember after changing your Z-Offset, to save your new Z-Offset setting (go to: Control / Store Settings).

I will have to use the TH3D EZMat Build Surface more before I can make a proper comparison between
the 3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive Wrap and TH3D EZMat .
Last edited by bob195558 on Wed May 16, 2018 2:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).


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bob195558
Posts: 2018
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Re: EZMat Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Thu May 10, 2018 4:09 pm

Update about using the TH3D EZMat Build Surface

The first Print adhered to good to the TH3D EZMat Build Surface and after several prints I had Failure to have
any adhesion to having some small spots of adhesion to the EZMat print surface.
TH3D EZMat Build Surface Failed Adhesion.jpg
TH3D EZMat Failed Adhesion
I need to purchase some 100 grit sandpaper to see if it may be able to be restored EZMat back to working properly.
Tim says: (Once you start losing adhesion, lightly sand with 100 grit sandpaper to make it like new!).


So for now I went back to the 3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive Wrap For Car 1500 X 300 mm Sticker Self Adhesive,
which I like a lot better so far: (https://www.ebay.com/itm/323221113409).
GOOD 3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive.jpg
The 3D Prints adhere to the Vinyl Adhesive Wrap very well and after it cools down the 3D Prints releases very easily.
Last edited by bob195558 on Tue May 22, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:24 pm
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Location: New England, Vermont
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Re: EZMat Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:03 am

The 3D Carbon Fiber Vinyl Adhesive Wrap continues to work well for me.

Today I changed back to the TH3D EZMat to see if it will work properly,
as the last time using it had lost the ability for the 3D Print to adhere to it.
I lightly sanded with 100 grit sandpaper roughing up the surface
and cleaned the debris from the EZMat with 91% isopropyl alcohol.
But still was not able to get any to very little adhesion to the EZMat.
EZMat Failed Adhesion_e.jpg
EZMat Build Surface Failed Adhesion_e
EZMat Failed Adhesion_c.jpg
EZMat Build Surface Failed Adhesion_c


I also tried, cleaning the sanding debris off with Window Cleaner
and same results with failed adhesion to the EZMat surface.
Tried several 3D Prints, adjusting the Z-Offset up and down a little,
which made no improvements. (Add Edit: the problem was Z-offset was to high).
EZMat Failed Adhesion_b.jpg
EZMat Build Surface Failed Adhesion_b
EZMat Failed Adhesion_f.jpg
EZMat Build Surface Failed Adhesion_f

I will contact Tim at TH3D about this problem with the EZMat Build Surface to
see what he may be able to suggest to get the EZMat to work properly.
Last edited by bob195558 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
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Location: New England, Vermont
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Re: Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Tue May 22, 2018 2:56 pm

Tim at TH3D saw the problem that I was having with the EZMat very quickly,
which it turned out to be the printing nozzle height (Z-Offset setting) was too high. :D

For some unknown reason the printing nozzle height change
and when trying to adjust it using the Z-Offset adjustment,
my adjustments were to little.
I had removed the CR10 Heated Print-Bed to make
and install an insulation pad for the bottom side
and after reassembling and resetting the print nozzle
gap between it and the Print-Bed, this problem was corrected.
Adhesion to the EZMat surface is working properly now. :D 8-)
(EZMat seems to be working to good, maybe need some kind of flex sheet for the Print-Bed to help with part removal) :geek: :idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmpn-a3pwJo&feature=share
Attachments
Puzzle Cookie Cutter 5 10 2018.mp4
(1.91 MiB) Downloaded 138 times
Last edited by bob195558 on Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
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Re: Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:01 am

Update:

Been using the EZMat for all my 3D Printing and I like it a lot ! :D



Printing Part5_fb.jpg
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:24 pm
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Location: New England, Vermont
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Nozzle to close to Print-bed surface, Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:45 am

ImageProblem when you have your Nozzle set to close to your Print-Bed Surface:

If your Z-Offset (Nozzle Gap Setting) is set to close to the Print-Bed Surface,
the EZABL is not able to work properly.
The Z-Offset Setting is the lowest point that your Z-axis can travel downward.
So you want to set your Z-Offset Setting to the lowest point of your Print-Bed surface.
If you have your Z-Offset Setting set to low (close) to the Print-Bed, you will see it printing to
close to where the high points (places) are on your Print-Bed Surface
and the lowest points on your Print-Bed Surface will look more to have a proper printing gap.
The Z-Offset Setting only uses the EZABL data to adjust the Z-axis up and down,
but it can not make the Z-axis to travel below what your Z-Offset Setting is set at.
So to fix this problem you need to raise your Z-Offset Setting up a little.

Some more info about setting your EZABL and Z-Offset Setting:
The EZABL sensor is set so that when it is collecting the Print-Bed flatness data
it is running the Z-axis higher up from where the Z-Offset Setting is set to.
Set the EZABL Sensor about 2mm distance from the end of your Nozzle
and set the end of the Nozzle to be a paper thickness of 0.1mm (.004 inches)
between it and the Print-Bed surface (Z-Offset Setting).
Next set the sensitivity of the EZABL Sensor to where the LED light is triggered (about 2.1mm between Print-Bed Surface).
The EZABL collects the flatness-data of the Print-Bed surface only.
When you set your Z-Offset Setting
(Nozzle to Print-Bed surface with a piece of paper, you can set this manually too),
set it to the lowest point of your Print-Bed Surface.
Do not set it to the highest point of your Print-Bed Surface,
because your Z-Offset Setting is the lowest point that the Z-axis can move down.
If you set your Z-Offset Setting to low (close) to the Print-Bed the EZABL
will not be able to work properly.
I recommend that you, in the TH3D firmware to use the Baby-Step feature
(uncomment the #define BABYSTEP_OFFSET)
to be able to fine-tune your Z-Offset Setting on-the-fly when test printing your first layer.
When you have your Z-Offset Setting set correctly,
you then need to save these new setting by selecting "Store setting".
If you do not save your new Settings, the next printing job will return to the
wrong (old) Z-Offset settings and you will then have a problem.
Last edited by bob195558 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:24 pm
Country: United States
Location: New England, Vermont
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Re: Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (3D Printing)

Post by bob195558 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:18 pm

Repairing your EZMat Build Sheet

See TH3D youtube How to Fix here: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgafY6QuPvA).


Repairing EZMat Build Sheet crash.jpg
Repairing EZMat Build Sheet with Nozzle Crash

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EZ300 EZFlex Plate – Spring Steel Build Sheet (CR10 3D Printer)

Post by bob195558 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:36 pm

EZFlex Plate – Build Sheet Spring Steel Flex Base

I orders from TH3D today there newest product
EZFlex Plate Bundle
on SALE today (Nov 5, 2018) only: (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/ezflex-plate-bundle/).


EZFlex Plate Bundle_.jpg
EZFlex Plate Bundle Sale for Nov 05, 2018


This will make it easier to remove the 3D printed parts from the EZMat and/or EZPei Build Sheets.


EZFlex Plate_Build Sheet Spring Steel Flex Base.jpg
EZFlex Plate – Build Sheet Spring Steel Flex Base

More EZFlex Plate info, see here: (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/ezfl ... flex-base/),
EZMat Build Sheet – Multiple Sizes: (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/th3d ... d-surface/),
EZPei Build Sheet – Multiple Sizes: (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/ezpe ... ple-sizes/).
Last edited by bob195558 on Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:34 am, edited 4 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

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bob195558
Posts: 2018
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Location: New England, Vermont
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Installing EZFlex Plate using Springs and NO glass! (CR10 Printer):

Post by bob195558 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:38 am

Installing EZFlex Plate using Springs with Adjusting-Knobs and NO glass! (CR10 Printer):
(Without using the old CR10 Print-Bed Glass)
EZ300 EZFlex Plate logo 305mm turned_c.jpg
Have received the EZ300 EZFlex Plate for the CR10 3D Print-Bed from TH3D.
There are burrs on the cut edges and I deburr them using a Dremel.
EZ300 dremel deburr cut edges_b.jpg


Next I degreased both side with Simple Green and then 91% Isopropyl Alcohol.
Then I applied the EZMat sheet over the EZ300 Laser engraved TH3D logo.
Note: The EZFlex Plate has one side longer then the other side,
so you may want to make sure you apply the TH3D EZMat logo to the
longer 305mm side (Y-axis travel direction).
The EZFlex plate is a lot smaller then your CR10 Heated Print-Bed plate (310mm x 310mm),
so you may want to trim off the EZMat build sheet that overhangs the edge of the
EZFlex plate (300mm X-axis by 305mm Y-axis).
EZ300 EZFlex Plate_a.jpg
EZ300 EZFlex Plate logo 305mm turned_e.jpg

Next I discovered, when I removed the no longer needed CR10 Glass printing plate,
(which has a thickness of 4.50mm) the Z-axis travel will bottom out
long before I was able to set the new Z-Offset setting.

So this is what I did to fix (correct) the problem.
CR10 3D Printer ready for EZFlex Plate_d.jpg


Re-Setting the CR10 Heated Print-Bed Height for the EZ300 EZFlex Plate
How to reset the CR10 Heated Print-Bed when upgrading to use the TH3D
EZFlex Plate when using the Springs to adjustment the Print-Bed level.
Because the Z-axis is not able to travel down far enough,
you will need to raise the heated Print-Bed up higher to make up
for the thickness of the Glass plate, which is no longer needed.

To be able to still use the Springs and Leveling-Knobs, this is what I did.
Need to make some changes so that you will still have enough spring tension
and to be able to adjust the new Print-Bed surface when you raise the Print-Bed up
using the adjustment Leveling-Knobs.

1) Disassemble the Print-Bed by the four adjusting leveling screws.
2) Assemble four M4 lock-nuts that are approximately
4.38mm thick to the underside of the heated Print-Bed
and tighten them to the bottom of the Print-Bed.
(This will also be a big help, because these nuts will stop the M4 bolts from spinning when making fine adjustments to the Print-Bed)
3) Then added the Springs and re-assembled the Print-Bed back to the X-Y Carriage assembly.
4) For the CR10 Heated Print-Bed, measure approximately 53.83mm from the top of
the lower frame to the top of the EZFlex Plate.
5) Next re-level the Heated Print-Bed using the four Leveling-Knobs to there
new higher position, which is higher up from where the Z-axis travel was bottoming-out.
6) You will need to re-set your Z-Offset setting to the lowest point of the Heated Print-Bed
and remember to save your new settings after by selecting "Store setting".
(I use TH3D BABYSTEP feature to fine-tune the new Z-Offset setting)


EZFlex Plate Springs Adjusting Knobs.jpg
Note: In this photo I have cardboard glued to the bottom of the
heat-bed to help with holding the print-bed temperature.
(Click on photo to zoom in for a closer look)
In the photo you will not see the M4 nuts that are tighten to the
bottom of heated print-bed.
EZFlex Plate is held in place by the mini bed clips,
but I have ordered the High-Temperature Neodymium Magnets
(https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/bed-magnets/)
to be used to hold the EZFlex Plate in place of the clips.
:) I do like using the EZFlex Plate with the EZMat build sheet a lot. :D
Last edited by bob195558 on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:52 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).

User avatar
bob195558
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:24 pm
Country: United States
Location: New England, Vermont
Contact:

Re: Adhesion to Heated Print Bed (CR10 3D Printer)

Post by bob195558 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:06 pm

My Suggestion to TH3D:
The CR10 EZFlex Plate could be made larger
like 310mm x 320mm
so that the EZMat will fit it correctly
and there is a tab, like have it 320mm longer so to
help when lifting EZFlex Plate off the heat bed.

I am Not happy :( that the EZFlex Plate being cut off short
for the lesser EZPei build sheets.
I can not see any reason to cut size of the EZFlex Plate to be short.
EZFlex Plate should be cut to the full size of the Printer.
Having it shorter is of No help what so ever.

Overall the EZFlex Plate with the EZMat works very well removing parts
and setting up (preparation) for the next Print,
which I am very happy with. :)

So even though EZFlex Plate cut size is short, :?
it is still a good purchase to make from TH3D, :)
as it is a big help when removing your printed parts. 8-) :)
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.

3D Printing upgrades with (CR10 3D Printer): (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=85).


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