FrSky Tx (X12D)

Hardware help and support for the FrSky Horus. (not yet released)
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mnementh
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by mnementh » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:32 pm

Why do I get the feeling that the Horus and the Taranis Plus model lines are going to merge for Christmas 2014? Will it be called the Taranis Plus or will it be the Horus?


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Scott Page
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Scott Page » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:39 pm

Not happening. There will be Taranis+ in the wild this month.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:01 pm

There are loads of people waiting for the horus. I'm one :p

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by mnementh » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:27 am

I'll be waiting for whichever one gets here while I have the money. Is there ANYTHING concrete on the Horus? Case design, feature set, ANYTHING? Everything I've read so far that wasn't pure speculation has already turned up on the parts list for the Plus.


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Kilrah
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Kilrah » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:31 am

Horus is a completely different radio, new case design, semi tray type, large tiltable color screen on top. There are photos around.


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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Scott Page » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:08 am


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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Iksbob » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:35 pm

Scott Page wrote:http://bit.ly/1kY38KI
I always cross my fingers and cringe when clicking those obfuscated links.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by SkyNorth » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:14 pm

I have heard that it will not be OpenTx or er9x compatible , but their OWN in house software.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:26 pm

If that is the case, then is already dead :( And I won't buy it, after waiting for it all this time..

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Rob Thomson » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:09 pm

SkyNorth wrote:I have heard that it will not be OpenTx or er9x compatible , but their OWN in house software.
Anything is possible - but I do not believe that to be then case :)
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Scott Page
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Scott Page » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:25 am

SkyNorth wrote:I have heard that it will not be OpenTx or er9x compatible , but their OWN in house software.

That's really the way it is now. They have a fork of OpenTX that they've modified and they ship the Taranis with. Customers have the option of leaving that firmware on (forever), or following the OpenTx team with newer versions. We should not be the least bit surprised that FrSky is working on their own in house software, but that's what it will be sold with - not what you'll be limited to.

FrSky also has their own update pathway that others have followed using dfuse. Believe it or not, there are far more Taranis in use with FrSky stock firmware than with updated OpenTX firmware. I don't recall the exact number, but when Bertrand stated how many downloads of 2.0 - it represented just under 10% of the number of Taranis sold so far and he was pretty excited about that. Even if that number was 5 times higher it still represents a huge number of customers that are either satisfied with the stock firmware, or don't have the inclination to change it.

FrSky probably feel the need to address the biggest complaint about Taranis from people outside RCG or this forum, which is the interface. Specifically is that it's much too hard to learn. FrSky wants those people as customers so it likely makes sense to them to work on a GUI that even a Spectrum user could master. :lol: Don't get me wrong - I'm a major supporter of OpenTx, ER9x, Sky9x etc - but I'm not the average modeler - which is who FrSky needs to market to now. There has been resistance to making an easier to grasp interface all the way back to 2011 er9x when I remember somebody getting flamed for suggesting an easier interface was needed.

So what if Frsky does their own in house software. FrSky is not going to lock the transmitter. IF the OpenTX team is so inclined I'm positive that FrSky will continue to give them support for the continued development of OpenTx for the users that want to update their Horus. (I'm sure everybody in this forum will)

I suspect somebody will take issue with my claim that a minority of Taranis users update the firmware on their transmitter to OpenTX. If so, you're wrong. I only live in a corner of the world, but in my corner I know quite a few Taranis users, most will have nothing to do with Companion or connecting the Taranis to the computer. I absolutely don't understand that mentality, but it's prevalent - even predominant. Some quick counting..... about 80% of the Taranis users I know personally still have stock firmware on their transmitters, and everyone of those that did update needed my help updating the first time. I do a tremendous amount of support email and screen sharing with people savvy enough to get messed up, and my interactions with them supports what I've said. We live in a bubble in OpenRCforums and RCG and tend to think most Taranis users are like those we encounter here. Ain't so, and it's becoming increasing not so as the Taranis is getting picked by more and more "average folks" - rather than the early adopter DIY crowd that started by hacking and modding their 9x radios. :D

ASSUMING that the OpenTx team still have steam in their engine and build OpenTx for the Horus/X12D there will be plenty of us downloading it and installing it to our transmitters just as we always have. There will also be many who never take their Horus near a computer and have no intention of using Companion. I really don't understand not wanting to learn and get the most out of the transmitter, but I'm not too keen to do my own auto repair and take it to the limit either. I guess it's different strokes for different folks.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:21 am

Well said Scott. Let's hope the open source guys port both firmware to it... I've been waiting for this radio since the first prototype pictures came out. It has been what, 2 years now? The taranis is just not me at all.. don't like those 6 navigation buttons. Don't like that 80% or more of the switches are 3 pos switches, and when holding it, don't like the overall felling of it. It might be very similar to the excellent 9x but in fact feels very different to me. The Horus is a more modern design, and it seems to be a little wider than both the taranis and the 9x. Which is good for me as a I am not a very thin person ;)
That is one advantage of the 9XR Pro over the other radios. It feels better in that way.
The Horus apparently will have all the goodies from factory that were lacking on the taranis when it came out. Encoder, haptic, etc. That was also a big turn down..
Oh well, lets hope that we really can use some open source firmware on it, or it will be a big disappointment, at least for me. :(

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Scott Page » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:26 pm

jhsa wrote: Oh well, lets hope that we really can use some open source firmware on it, or it will be a big disappointment, at least for me. :(

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Eva has told me the following a few hours ago:
"FrSky radios provide the platform and FrSky offer support in every possible way to the developing teams."

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jhsa
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:32 pm

Fingers crossed then ;)

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by pmullen503 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:10 pm

Scott Page wrote:.................. but when Bertrand stated how many downloads of 2.0 - it represented just under 10% of the number of Taranis sold so far and he was pretty excited about that.

............................... Ain't so, and it's becoming increasing not so as the Taranis is getting picked by more and more "average folks" - rather than the early adopter DIY crowd that started by hacking and modding their 9x radios. .....................

I really don't understand not wanting to learn and get the most out of the transmitter, but I'm not too keen to do my own auto repair and take it to the limit either. I guess it's different strokes for different folks.

+1 This mirrors my experience as well. The fact is that most flyers (especially fixed wing) don't need and don't know what to do with all the capability of open source firmware. They just want something simple to use and are willing to pay handsomely for it.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by ShowMaster » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:02 am

For any new full featured TX.
What may be a good option is a basic and an advanced menus option.
Maybe many more would like the radio and especially the solid link. The link was my reason for going to a Frsky DJT and D receiver in my pcm10 and shelving my dx7 over 3 years ago. The er9x conversion was to go to a newer lighter tx but dump the clunky 9x FW.
In doing this I also had to learn to program the more advanced options.
I've grown to embrace the many programming features er9x and opentx offers but many will never!

So a basic simple to use FW screen with or without A1 and A2 telemetry and also an advanced one for those ready to do it all.
That or the option to deselect screens not regularly used or wanted. A beta version of ersky9xr I'm using has a menu with the options organized and sorted on one menu page. I don't have to button through all the not used menus to get to one I want. Instead I just select a category menus in it. Some I don't go into now. I'm finding it easier IMO.

The OTX model wizard is a good start but it does require a computer connection. That as we read is still a big speed bump, the linking up of the computer. I haven't checked, does the model match allow a printout for manual programming?
SM

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Rob Thomson » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:56 am

A more encompassing wizard is needed. Essentially one that also allows editing all the settings!
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Kilrah » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:44 pm

ShowMaster wrote: The OTX model wizard is a good start but it does require a computer connection.
Nope, runs on the Taranis itself as well (2.0+).

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Scott Page » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:12 pm

Channel assignment, Rates, & Expo would satisfy the needs of a majority of hobbyists (sadly). We have a good LUA Tx wizard for channel assignment, now we need one for rates and expo.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:47 pm

Why? as far as I know the rates and expo screen in opentx and er9x are nearly equal to other radios?
My God, very soon people will start asking for a fixed channel order as well? so we are going back to the same c**p that was the reason why the custom fw was created? :) Is this a circle then?? :)

People just have to learn to work with this stuff.. Read the manual.. I remember people were already complaining a few years ago that the radios were difficult to understand, and this was years before the open source firmware.. People always complained, complain now, and will complain in the future, no matter what the radio firmware is or does..
If the radio does too much, it is overwhelming, if it doesn't, is too simple and lacks functions, if it has 6 flight modes, it should have 8. If it has 8 flight modes, it should have 7 because 8 is too many, if the sticks don't have ball beartings, it's c**p, if they have ball bearings, it's c**p anyway because it should have hall effect sensors on the sticks.. WE ARE NEVER HAPPY. WE HUMAN ARE SAD IDIOTS.. :) :mrgreen:
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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Iksbob » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:55 pm

jhsa wrote:I remember people were already complaining a few years ago that the radios were difficult to understand, and this was years before the open source firmware.. People always complained, complain now, and will complain in the future, no matter what the radio firmware is or does.
Exactly. People don't want to understand the radio. They just want instructions they can follow that will result in the model doing what it's supposed to. Since kit manufacturers haven't embraced the everything-is-a-mix model, let alone specific firmwares, those instructions don't exist. Thus they're forced to figure it out, which requires some basic understanding of what the radio is doing... Wait, isn't that LEARNING??? There must be something wrong, if using this radio involves the L word. Better complain about it.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by HC1969 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:38 pm

Dumb Radio for stupid people. Smart radio for us! :)
It requires some IQ (also modeling)...
http://rc.emiter.hu/ (MegaSound 9X, GCL-2, FrSky-RSSI-DAC, etc.) Keress fel!

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:18 pm

Radio? wait a second, what radio? :o :D
I go to the field, take a chair and a table with me, sit down, put my computer on the table, program some waypoints on the model's flight controller, and after I'm finished with the flying I go home, go to the forums and share my experience. I start my post with:

TODAY I FLEW MY MODEL.....

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by KAL » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:21 pm

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by pmullen503 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:12 pm

If a simple interface for the masses means that I get better hardware for less money then I'm all for it.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by Scott Page » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:32 am

pmullen503 wrote:If a simple interface for the masses means that I get better hardware for less money then I'm all for it.
That is exactly the point! FrSky is not going to grow (or survive) if they limit target audience to the tiny minority of the hobbyists that are DIY savvy.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by SR71 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:56 am

Scott Page wrote:
pmullen503 wrote:If a simple interface for the masses means that I get better hardware for less money then I'm all for it.
That is exactly the point! FrSky is not going to grow (or survive) if they limit target audience to the tiny minority of the hobbyists that are DIY savvy.
I agree and there are several option that FrSky has at its disposal, other than develop from the scratch a new software, in order to simplify the user interface and enlarge the user base.

The first one, simplest: they can develop some script in order to create configurations wizards, that hide the underlying complexity to the masses.

Another option could be to add , in the new models, an additional processor with a more sophisticated graphical display, and develop there a (closed source) gui that just produce and load, into the Open Tx real time core, the models. That Gui/wizard could even be an Android.



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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:51 am

Scott Page wrote:
pmullen503 wrote:If a simple interface for the masses means that I get better hardware for less money then I'm all for it.
That is exactly the point! FrSky is not going to grow (or survive) if they limit target audience to the tiny minority of the hobbyists that are DIY savvy.
They should have done that to the taranis because the horus seem to be much more capable hardwarewise. It's a waste of power... I bet they are going to get the opentx and make a mess of it like HK did with er9x and the 9XR radio

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by pmullen503 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:57 pm

jhsa wrote: They should have done that to the taranis because the horus seem to be much more capable hardwarewise. It's a waste of power... I bet they are going to get the opentx and make a mess of it like HK did with er9x and the 9XR radio

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Frsky seems to be a little smarter than HK. The Taranis at least is a reasonably well integrated piece of kit. Reasonable quality, reasonable price and a reasonable set of features. The original 9XR was arguably a step sideways or even backwards from the Flysky 9x and even the 9XR PRO (which could be a much better radio) still suffers from maddening shortcomings because of decisions made by HK.

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Re: FrSky Tx (X12D)

Post by jhsa » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:54 pm

well, if I will be able (as they say) to install a custom firmware on the Horus radio from day one I'm ok with it.. I will just turn the radio on to see if it works and then flash it, the same as I did with my 9x radios..

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