Sky9x Rotary Encoder Option

Iksbob · Post by **Iksbob** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:03 pm

SkyNorth wrote:This is the electrical connections to the menu keys for ersky board rev B

That'll do. On the pic I marked up above, the top and left (with respect to the image) jumpers are needed.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:51 pm

thx Iksbob. i am sure everyone with ersky9x board would appreciate too.
you may want to consider put this in wiki.

Wallcrasher · Post by **Wallcrasher** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:13 am

Hi Guy's, iv'e just finished making my printed circuit board with pull down resistors, one thing i need to know is the connection to witch of the lcd datalines on the stock 9x main board for the rotary A abd B outputs and the center push button (S1) and the common lead (Com A) according to the rotary encoder data sheet.

i've been searching thru the posts and aven't found any precise detail of where to make the connections.

thanks!

Post by **MikeB** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:19 am

For the stock board:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1525&p=21724&hilit= ... ard#p21724
and:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1525&p=21724&hilit= ... ard#p21737

Mike.

Wallcrasher · Post by **Wallcrasher** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:43 pm

Thanks Mike, for the info.

i will let you know how it went!

JP.

fcolon76 · Post by **fcolon76** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:20 pm

Could someone tell me where could I buy the pins from and what size I would have to get them? And also is there like a step-by-step guide in the 9xforums to do this mod?

Or maybe if someone here sells them already made?

gohsthb · Post by **gohsthb** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:03 pm

I would think you can either pull the pins out of an inline header, or you can use solid wire and just cut the length you need. (making sure you bend the wire straight of course)
-Gohst

Post by **Crucial** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:30 pm

I used something like this.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... -ND/313821

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:02 pm

OK, got my wheel encoder with the Iksbob/Hippo board in.

Houston, we got a problem!!!

This is on Sky9x board. I did short those 2 pairs of pins indicated by Iksbob.
but the left key and up key is not working. no response at all.
and the wheel seems only go one direction, on model set up menu 1-12 , it won't go over to 1 again, has to rotate from 12, 11... to 1 again. But it will go around if decrease the number. 12-1 then 12 to 1 again.
the center enter key appears to be working, not consistent.

I remember there is a set up menu for encoder, but since the left key is not working, i can't go to tx set up menu.

suggestion, ideas?

PS: this is on Ersky9x r122 test version FW. but I don't think that plays a role? since the buttons were working prior to the mod.

Post by **Crucial** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:22 pm

Which way is your board oriented? Are the 4 wires coming off towards the top of the radio or the bottom?

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:33 pm

yes. I did read that.

now I forgot to mention one thing. I did left out those 4 pins that does not go any where. but for those two that should be shorted. I short them on the main board with a wire. I figure those 4 pins don't connect to any thing any way.

I also did a little differently. I don't want any pressure put on the main board so I actually used 12 thin wires to connect the Iksbob/Hippo board and the main board.
the I/H board is secured to the front like the stock button divider, then wires goes to the main board. those 2 shorts is also on the mainboard.

I am wondring if those 2 shorts are at the wrong place? or my decoder is defective?
any way to test the decoder without powering on?

Iksbob · Post by **Iksbob** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:11 pm

More likely, you have one or more misconnected wires. Find a copy of the datasheet for the encoder and look at the electrical connections. If you join the common connections (assuming that will work on the sky9x board), you will only need 8 wires: 4 directions, 2 encoder, 1 select, 1 ground.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:58 pm

those wires are connected just like the pins, only substituded with wires and left those four pins going no where out and shorted the two pairs.
I guess there is a difference between the Sky9x board and stock board how these can be connected. A diagram showing what goes where would be great.
I will double check the wires and shorts to see if I made a mistake, but there are 12 wires and 2 shorts as of now for sure.

Iksbob · Post by **Iksbob** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:44 am

Well, there's 16 pins between the two PCBs, and 4 more for the encoder/select button, totaling 20 wires if it were connected exactly the same as the hard-soldered method. Looking at your pics earlier, I saw at least one wire that served no purpose - leading to an empty section of ground plane.

Clivew · Post by **Clivew** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:48 am

I would also check the data line connectiions to the main board.
I can't see how anyone could break the pcb and pins, with reasonable force.
There are 16 of them in total!
The main bord pcb has plated through holes. and the adaptor board
is soldered on the "correct" side of the pcb.
The pins make life a lot simpler

Clive

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:43 am

Houston, we got problem solved.

the wiring in the pic I showed are exactly untouched and I checked they are correct wire by wire/pin by pin.
The answer is all 4 pairs of those green marked pins need to be shorted or on the main board.
the 4 pins that leads to no where can be left out (only for support , if you use pins) as I did.
After I short the other 2 pairs on the main board as indicated by the green line, every thing works now.

Thx for everyone jumped in and help.

Or knock on the wood, the connection is still not completely right. I certainly can't read the circuit that well, but looking at the board and the way the encoder is connected. Made a guess. it worked.

May be you guys can analyze what i did more precisely to see it makes sense.

but I think the way the wheel and enter key is not very intuitive to me at this time. May be it is I am not used to it. Found the rotary divisor definitively needs to be set at '4' or its way too sensitive.

Took the opportunity to put the RTC back up batt in. works perfect.

Looks like I don't need to open this baby for a long time.

-- until next mod starts.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:16 am

Clivew wrote: I can't see how anyone could break the pcb and pins, with reasonable force.
There are 16 of them in total!
The main bord pcb has plated through holes. and the adaptor board
is soldered on the "correct" side of the pcb.
Clive

you are right, unless you use a hammer on it to break it.

I may be overthinking, but if pins are not perfectly straight and lined up perfectly with 16 holes at the same time, there will be some tension/stress at the solder joint on the I/H board when placed. Any chance after a while the solder joint may break due to the stress?

the main reasons I did with the wires is:
-- for any reason I need to do any mod/addition from the area the I/H board is covered, I can do it fairly easy. I used 11cm of wires for each 'pin' which is just right for me to flip the main board out of the tx whil the wheel still in the Tx.
Who knows nerds around here may come out with down the road.

-- if the wheel gets bad after repetitive use, i can replace it fairly simple, desoldering 16 pins a the same time is not fun.

desolder 12 single wires is easy.

-- with my solder technique and occasional trimmer at this time, I was looking at the side of the board I need to do the soldering of the pins, with all 16 pins on there, I think I got a pretty good chance to slip and touch the iron to the component next to it, they are very close. I was looking at the stock board which is fairly simple, no other components next to the solder spots. But on Sky9x board, there are 3 places there are some resistor or something there right next to the pins and the circuitry are much finer and closer than the stock board. To play it safe, and with the above reasons, I chose to use wires. Didn't you see I even cut the original button off and left the footing stayed and raised high above the board!

Post by **Crucial** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:54 am

did you mean to upload some new pics? I don't see the green marked pins or green lines

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:04 am

that is on the page before this page on the bottom where Iksbob marked 4 pairs of pins with green line, at the time wasn't sure which two should be shorted. then on top of this page he pointed out the two pairs need to be shorted. Now, it seems all 4 pairs need to be shorted.

but here it is:

Helle · Post by **Helle** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:59 am

Hy,

here the shematic and measurements for the
Black Rotary Encoder TSWB-3N-CB222-LFS

To make a simpler PCB with connectors or so on

Helle

Post by **jhsa** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:21 am

Kaos, as you know I'm with the stock board. You might be right when you say that if the encoder goes bad or there's a bad connection we're a bit stuck.. that's right.. on my next radio I might do as you did, or similar. I see you used only 2 screws to hold the board with the encoder in place.. when you press the right/left buttons, doesn't the assembly move inwards? I will also put a dab of hot glue on each side.. it might help..

Joao

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:24 pm

jhsa:
that encoder is like sitting on a rock.

I did some mod to the I/H board. your concern was mine too. Here is what I did:

when the wheel is soldered on the I/H board and inserted into the well, it is actually stopped by the Tx frame well there is a molding for the old buttons. so I trimmed off the right side of the I/H baord (as in the pic) to seat it further down. even that, the wheel is not sticking out as much as I want, so I trimmed the tab (the top and bottom tab where the screw holes are drilled) to half thickness (I/H board is very thick). so wheel is 'raised' on the Tx a little. use two washers to support it. half of the washer is sitting on the unthinned board to give stronger support. also need to cut the screw about 1.5 mm short.
The right side(as in the pic), yes, it has a strip of hot glue to support it solid. I took the pic before the hot glue went in.
I use stock LCD and HK back light. The left side the I/H board fit just right next to the LCD, just need a little trimming on the other side to fit the button well and level the wheel. It came out the height of the I/H board after seated as I did fits perfectly under that HK back light plate.

so the left side is perfectly sitting against the backlight board (it is wider than LCD). and the back light is tightly backed up by the main board with that big piece of foam in between.
unless you can push hard enough to break 2 screw thread, the backlight plexiglass, and the hot glue on the right. It is not going any where.

If you are using HK backlight, like I do, put a trip of tape between the back light edge and I/H board. the siding of the HK backlight is sealed around the edge with a piece of thin alu foil (I think it is alu foil) to reflect the light, that will short the I/H circuit where the edge sit on. the little strip of foil can protrude a little outside the edge.

Post by **jhsa** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:23 pm

yeah, I did fit mine using the pins, but had to trim the encoder board both sides and dremel one solder point a little bit also so the backlight would fit in between. Also did dremel the posts a little so the encoder could go out a bit more. it's working fine though.. next one I guess I'll do as you did.. I think it's not a very good idea to use the pins in case something gets broken.. I wish you did your mod berfore I did mine..

João

Post by **MikeB** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:48 pm

kaos wrote:May be it is I am not used to it. Found the rotary divisor definitively needs to be set at '4' or its way too sensitive.

For the 7 way switch/encoder, the rotary divisor is best set at 2. I have added this option after the 4, so the options, in order, are 1, 4, 2. I'm using 2 on er9x (stock).

Mike.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:12 pm

Mike:
with the encoder. I think we can make the center button substitue the 'menu' button on the right and give the 'menu' button to an extra switch.

I played with the wheel a little, there is some thing I think we can improve. like make it consistent , center is 'enter' , enter to get in submenu, turn wheel to change value , enter to exit the menu to a higher level menu. and the menu/submenu we are at any time can be highlighted, if we are not in the partibular menu/submenu, then it is not highlighted.

This just some preliminary impression. I will work on it a little more.
one thing I think may be changed for now is: the submenu for ' Tx set up' is limited 1-10 and you turn the wheel back and forth,, it will stop at 1 or 10. this is good. but in model set up menu 1-12, you can turn 1->12 and it stops, but when you turn backwards, it will go beyond 1 ->12-> around and around. To me, stops at 1 and 12 like the tx set up 1-10 is better. what do you think?
also, when there is a multi display screen, the wheel should be able to change display screen directly. like the telemetry screen, once we enter the telemeter screen, would be nice just use wheel to change to different subscreen.

There are some other little thing I think can be improved on. I will play with it more and let you know what I find.

Post by **MikeB** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:00 pm

Yes, I know there is more to be done. There are odd reasons why the menus behave the way they do at present.
I also need to tie up between using the encoder/switch and using the buttons.
At present, you can movebetween menus using the encoder. Having reached a menu, a short press of the centre button changes to up/down, so the encoder enables you to select a menu item. When on a menu item, another short press of the centre button selectes editing mode, now the encoder adjusts the selected value. Use a short press of the centre button to stop editing, you will now be back to up/down with the encoder. If you rotate back to the top (highlight the e.g. 3/12), another short press takes you back to selecting a menu. A long press of the centre button acts like the EXIT button, taking you back to the top (e.g. 3/12) or, from there, back to the main screen.
I'm still thinking about how to get left/right within a menu. The problem is how to select between editing the value you are on, and selecting either left/right movement or up/down movement with one button.
CUrrently, if you use the down button to leave the top line, the encoder does not know this, and is still in "step through the menus" mode.
Hmmm, just having a thought, maybe the encoder should step through all items in turn, so down a line, then across that line to the end, then down a line and back to the left etc.

I also thought a little telltale, just left of the 3/12 to indicate the mode the encoder is in (menu select, item select, item edit).

I'm testing a prototype REV 3 ersky board, and need to change the connector on the encoder I'm using to be able to test any changes on ersky9x, it's not the 7 way switch/encoder (yet, I have one to fit, but need to make another PCB to mount it, the one I have fitted is on a stock Tx).

Regarding the telemetry screens, I'm not sure. I'm looking to add a method where the encoder may be used to control a mix, so the encoder can operate a servo. What I then want to avoid is when using the encoder for select/edit, the servo does not move, and when controlling the servo, the screen does not change. My current idea is to use the fact you are on either a main screen or a telemetry screen to allocate the encoder to the servo, on any other screen, then the encoder controls the menu. Other ideas are welcome.

Mike.

hpihl · Post by **hpihl** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:23 pm

MikeB wrote: Hmmm, just having a thought, maybe the encoder should step through all items in turn, so down a line, then across that line to the end, then down a line and back to the left etc.

IMHO this is the simplest and the most logical way to do it and leaves also a possibility to use 3-way encoder as a single control for all programming.

Now if you find a solution to choose menu and I have all the functionality I have wanted

Post by **MikeB** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:38 pm

Just put this
"maybe the encoder should step through all items in turn, so down a line, then across that line to the end, then down a line and back to the left etc."
into er9x on the stock board.
Seems to work fine.

Not quite so sure about the menu selection without left/right and up/down. All four have a function:
LEFT - Radio setup
RIGHT - model select
UP - BATTERY and STAT
DOWN - telemetry.

Quite a lot to replace. I might manage another menu, selectable by a press of the centre button, to choose one of these. There are, however, some other functions of the 4 buttons. I need to sort these out. E.G. on the BATTERY screen, LEFT/RIGHT does calibration of the current measurement. There is no indication that this is either possible or happening. I think I need to do a specific battery configuration screen where this is done.

Mike.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Regarding the telemetry screens, I'm not sure. I'm looking to add a method where the encoder may be used to control a mix, so the encoder can operate a servo. What I then want to avoid is when using the encoder for select/edit, the servo does not move, and when controlling the servo, the screen does not change. My current idea is to use the fact you are on either a main screen or a telemetry screen to allocate the encoder to the servo, on any other screen, then the encoder controls the menu.

how about just add one changeable item on each telemetry screen and main screen : (servo/display) defaulted to 'display' and it is toggled by the center button. short press center, toggle the display/servo; when in 'display', the wheels changes display screens; when in 'servo', the wheel control servo. then you can control servo at any screen display. long press still keep the old 'menu' button function - go back to where you were. basically replace 'menu' button with center button and we have extra toggle switch.

also that wheel can be used to control any thing you want servo or other thing.

yep, in set up for a choice of wheel encoder or stock button is a good idea or it will be too confusing.

kaos · Post by **kaos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:26 pm

jhsa wrote:. I wish you did your mod berfore I did mine..

well, you are just too fast.

That's the problem with people who are good at soldering.

You just start zapping without even think about it.

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