Sailplane control system

Gruvin 9x development has now been stopped - with the development team joining up with the open9x team to produce one firmware.
Passatiji
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Sailplane control system

Post by Passatiji » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:06 am

Hi all,
I'm want to build a system that would be able to provide sensitive rise/sink tones from a sail plane on-board fr-sky variometer and on-board battery control/warning.
I already have Turnigy 9x controller ER9x flashed. Also I ordered FrSky telemetry transmitter/receiver, FrSky hub, variometer, triaxial acceleration sensor, battery sensor.
Could you please tell me if there is any firmware that has the sailplane functionality I need?
Thank you!

bertrand35
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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by bertrand35 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:55 pm

Hi,
Romolo and me are currently working on it in open9x. It will work on the stock board and on the v4.1 board.
Bertrand.

wallaguest1
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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by wallaguest1 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:10 pm

v4.1 ¿? which board is this one¿?

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Passatiji » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:07 pm

Here is the famous board everyone is talking about
http://gruvin9x.com/shop/electronics/18 ... cb-ps.html

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Passatiji » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:11 pm

bertrand35 wrote:Hi,
Romolo and me are currently working on it in open9x. It will work on the stock board and on the v4.1 board.
Bertrand.
Sounds exciting!!!
Where I can watch for updates, do you post your progress somewhere?
Should I perform FrSky wiring and Speaker mod. or you gonna use different wiring?
Thanks guys!!!
You just made my weekend :)
Hope to hear soon from you.


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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by wallaguest1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:39 am

why not work in conjunction with erazz and so on for the frsky version? wouldn't better than have so many firmwares?

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Passatiji » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:51 am

wallaguest1 wrote:wouldn't better than have so many firmwares?
Hi wallaguest1,
I am totally agree with you but as I understand from information I've got here http://code.google.com/p/open9x/ this particular firmware has too many features to be combined with another one. Developers are running out of space to fit the code.
Hopefully the new board with the SDcard attached will help to fix this issue and we will be able to load the code as big as we need.
Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Kilrah » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:13 am

Yep, I REALLY hope that once the ERSKY9X board is there with enough code memory we'll see a merge of the very close firmwares (open9x, ER9x, gruvin9x) into one. With their differences as user options in a menu so that one can combine the features/behaviors one likes better.

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Sailplane control system

Post by cre8tiveleo » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:35 am

I really hope once bertrand/erazz (or anyone else, mike is doing a phenominal job !!!!!) gets this board they realize that keeping in the confinds of keeping backward compatibility the is not utilizing everything the ersky board has to offer.

Sd is nothing compared to what this board has on it already.

I just hope that the programmers look at the processors an think... 32bit... Arm... 256k? Whut! Schawing! Oh and is that two audio converters i see? Whut... And a seperate processor for the other 12 inputs, or outputs?

The stock board looms nakkid compared to the ersky board.


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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Romolo » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:32 pm

Kilrah wrote:Yep, I REALLY hope that once the ERSKY9X board is there with enough code memory we'll see a merge of the very close firmwares (open9x, ER9x, gruvin9x) into one. With their differences as user options in a menu so that one can combine the features/behaviors one likes better.
There are some feature that are difficult to merge and other not...
actually some features were already exchanged between firmwares...
For sure a new board will facilitate a lot adding features....but not merging them...
Flight phases are an example...

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MikeB » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:45 pm

I would hope that with the ersky9x board all sorts will be possible, we will have 4000 bytes of EEPROM for each model instead of 700, so we should be able to allow options. Have all the code in, and select which you want to use.
There is going to be a period of time where the ersky9x code changes significantly, so the EEPROM structure may well change, but after this, it should stay stable. It's taking me a little time to get the EEPROM file system working, but it needs to be correct, we don't want settings getting lost!

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Passatiji » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:13 pm

Hi Bertrand,
Do you have any updates?
Thank you!
bertrand35 wrote:Hi,
Romolo and me are currently working on it in open9x. It will work on the stock board and on the v4.1 board.
Bertrand.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Romolo » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:21 am

Hi Passatiji,
good and bad news, so first the bad: the standard frsky sensor doesn't seem to have enough sensitivity/precision to allow the implementation of a good variometer,
now the good one, another developer (Maxim) has joint the team and is working on variometer, he also developed a variometer sensor by his own that integrates in frsky protocol, accordingly to him a version of the vario using his sensor works rather well on his own 4.1.
We are now trying to overcome some issue also on stock board.
I will ask him to post some information more.

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jhsa
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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by jhsa » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:45 am

Romolo wrote: another developer (Maxim) has joint
MMmmmI think he could share some of that with us :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MikeB » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:09 am

I haven't done anything much with the FrSky vario, as standard it reports to whole metres, but I noticed with the hub upgrade, to allow the individual cell sensor to be used, there is now another entry for fractions of a metre, mso the accuracy may now be better. I need to do the hub upgrade to test.

Mike.
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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Romolo » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:33 am

MikeB wrote:I haven't done anything much with the FrSky vario, as standard it reports to whole metres, but I noticed with the hub upgrade, to allow the individual cell sensor to be used, there is now another entry for fractions of a metre, mso the accuracy may now be better. I need to do the hub upgrade to test.

Mike.
Hi Mike, I have updated the hub, unluckily the numbers reported by the fractional part of my sensor are nothing but usable, they appear to be more or less a random number generator...
I also have spoken with Allen of FrSky, he told me the actual sensors should be considered for the meter part only , but if you look at them you get a lot of noise even in the integer part too, so probably for Vario another sensor is needed...

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:22 am

Romolo wrote:
MikeB wrote:I haven't done anything much with the FrSky vario, as standard it reports to whole metres, but I noticed with the hub upgrade, to allow the individual cell sensor to be used, there is now another entry for fractions of a metre, mso the accuracy may now be better. I need to do the hub upgrade to test.

Mike.
Hi Mike, I have updated the hub, unluckily the numbers reported by the fractional part of my sensor are nothing but usable, they appear to be more or less a random number generator...
I also have spoken with Allen of FrSky, he told me the actual sensors should be considered for the meter part only , but if you look at them you get a lot of noise even in the integer part too, so probably for Vario another sensor is needed...
Hi Romolo and Mike.

I have to say something about Vario functions in FrSky:

so, as current hub software:
1) there is bosch bmp085 sensor. it is cheap and available to buy, it is good.
2) bosch sensor itself cannot to provide data for variometer.
3) no one sensor on market i have tried cannot to provide data for variometer
4) there is better substitution instead of bosch. but i have tried to buy and or very expesive(>20usd) or not available, and i will repeat - that sensors WILL NOT provide data for variometer itself

So, solution:
one of variants - ask FrSky guys to insert simple math into FrSky hub to filter out sensor noise
another one - design new frsky hub replacement

About second one variant:
I have done design of pcb and prototype on my table, of course it is not as complex as FrSky hub, it has 3 sensors only(baro, accelerometer and GPS), it is too heavy for me as GPS module i have found on table is heavy(12.5g itself) total weight 25gr includes FrSky 8ch telemetry receiver(striped) wires etc, it perfectly fits into my DLG models togeter with FrSky 8ch telemetry receiver. and it works fine with latest "unstable" branch of open9x project.
Dont know how to continue, because this version covers my need itself and i have no need to improve except weight...
i have found newest GPS modules which very light
Cam has shown me new baro sensor, which is very good but hard to buy and expensive... and in fact bosch bmp085 is more than enough for our needs
I have implementation on smd500... just i have few spare and bmp085 is single and need for other projects. they are pin compatible and mostly software compatible...

Any suggestions?

for better design it need to find and buy few samples and i will do this, just it will take some time....

PS: I can share schema and PCB (as pdf files) and share firmware hex... not sure if it is useful because very specific part used at this moment.

PPS: specific i mean GPS modules which is very variuos and not easy to buy sometime, i can provide links on modules i have used, very good and inexpensive

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by ReSt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:35 am

PPS: specific i mean GPS modules which is very variuos and not easy to buy sometime, i can provide links on modules i have used, very good and inexpensive
please do


Reinhard

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:05 am

ReSt wrote:
PPS: specific i mean GPS modules which is very variuos and not easy to buy sometime, i can provide links on modules i have used, very good and inexpensive
please do


Reinhard
please look, schema and pcb:
gps+baro+accel+frsky.pdf
frsky hub replacement for open9x vario
(16.1 KiB) Downloaded 219 times
gps+baro+accel+frsky pcb.pdf
PCB for frsky hub replacement
(16.56 KiB) Downloaded 170 times

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:09 am

ReSt wrote:
PPS: specific i mean GPS modules which is very variuos and not easy to buy sometime, i can provide links on modules i have used, very good and inexpensive
please do


Reinhard
and here is components used for:
Accelerometer: MMA7455LT
Baro sensor: Bosch SMD500 or BMP085
GPS: 10 Hz - FMP04-TLP GPS module, 26x26mm (smart antenna type), MediaTek chipset

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:14 am

And last post about components:
CPU: atMega168p
GPS module vendor: http://www.f-tech.com.tw/modules/publis ... p?itemid=5

other parts need to search which ones i have used for.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Passatiji » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:23 am

Hi team,
1) Why don't we use the combination of results from 3 sensors as GPS, vario and 3way axis? (I guess too much math on TX side but for the custom board should be fine)
2) Somehow these guys http://wingedshadow.com/thermalscout.html managed to create what we need with just one sensor. If we can't use this idea we can change the code for the better sound alarms lift-sink and use their sensor.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:35 am

Passatiji wrote:Hi team,
1) Why don't we use the combination of results from 3 sensors as GPS, vario and 3way axis? (I guess too much math on TX side but for the custom board should be fine)
2) Somehow these guys http://wingedshadow.com/thermalscout.html managed to create what we need with just one sensor. If we can't use this idea we can change the code for the better sound alarms lift-sink and use their sensor.
1) There are no real relations between all 3 sensors data, i have think about. accel+baro does nothing, gps can help to set real altitude, because baro is incorrect of course.
Just imagine if you seat inside black box and all you have is accelerometer... and what you can understand from data provided? In fact nothing - because gravitation and ineritia forces cannot be separated. I think it need more sensors - accelerometer, gyro, gps, baro and magnetic compass, then you have all data you need... Now need to use "intel Pentium inside" to process all those data flows :-)

2) I have read about thermalscout, interesting idea, but what next? spend 50usd for what? how to use that data? download by frsky analog channel? and what next? but it is right way - calculate vario on RX side and send vario back to receiver.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Romolo » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:45 am

Maxim please have a look to this sensors too: http://www.sensortechnics.com/en/produc ... sors/hcla/

They seem rather nice....

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:52 am

Romolo wrote:Maxim please have a look to this sensors too: http://www.sensortechnics.com/en/produc ... sors/hcla/

They seem rather nice....
And cost and availability? HCLA is differential sensors, not fits our needs.
In fact need simple barometric pressure sensor, 300-1100mbar range, digital output better or equal 16bits, small, cheap, available.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by bertrand35 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:56 pm

Perhaps it would be possible to help FrSky to improve their Hub? All the tests that Romolo and I did showed that the centimers information (id=0x21) are not reliable. This, provided that the hardware inside the sensor is good enough for such a precision of course!
Bertrand.

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by Romolo » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:56 pm

MaximK73 wrote:
Romolo wrote:Maxim please have a look to this sensors too: http://www.sensortechnics.com/en/produc ... sors/hcla/

They seem rather nice....
And cost and availability? HCLA is differential sensors, not fits our needs.
In fact need simple barometric pressure sensor, 300-1100mbar range, digital output better or equal 16bits, small, cheap, available.

sorry wrong link...
the correct family is:

http://www.sensortechnics.com/en/produc ... nsors/hdi/

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by MaximK73 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:46 pm

Romolo wrote:
MaximK73 wrote:
Romolo wrote:Maxim please have a look to this sensors too: http://www.sensortechnics.com/en/produc ... sors/hcla/

They seem rather nice....
And cost and availability? HCLA is differential sensors, not fits our needs.
In fact need simple barometric pressure sensor, 300-1100mbar range, digital output better or equal 16bits, small, cheap, available.

sorry wrong link...
the correct family is:

http://www.sensortechnics.com/en/produc ... nsors/hdi/
i have no idea, probably will not works, low resolution, as i have said 16bit need minimum.
and cost?

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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by th9xer » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:10 pm

Max has already seen this link, but the rest of you might like a look, it's an open source paraglider vario
http://code.google.com/p/flytepark-microvario/

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JEANALTAYR
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Re: Sailplane control system

Post by JEANALTAYR » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:31 pm

hello

http://www.futurlec.com/Pressure_Sensors.shtml
hp03 d (barometric pressure sensor, 300-1100mbar range, digital output better or equal 16bits, small, cheap, available.)9.9$
or http://fr.farnell.com/freescale-semicon ... dp/1457169
jmi

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