ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

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gohsthb
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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:27 pm

Follow the .pdf file. It explains what you are trying to set up. It was written in Er9x, but I don't think open9x is all that different.
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=620
-Gohst

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by nocrash » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:22 pm

its not your mode setting, its swash mix. all you have to do is in swash mix. go to elevator and see if its - or + lets say it set for + 100 change it to -100
and that will change the direction. throtle up is up and down is down. hope it helps

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by nsf » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:47 am

Tanks guys. All good now. For some reason the collective wasn't working. Had to reflash the gyro with the latest firmware. After that was good as new

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:34 am

anyone have a working template for er9x r782 to be used in a 450fbl with tarot zyx? esc is a hobbywing 40amp w/ bec no governor function. i cant figure out what curves to place. i followed the template of gohsthb but can't seem to lift the heli

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:20 am

Did you use Gohsthb's FBL template or the heli template? heli template dose not apply to ZYX gyro (or any FBL controller). In FBL controlled heli, you use a simple 4ch plane template and all the pitch/head set up is done with the ZYX control box/program. Only throttle curve needs to be a heli throttle curve for ID mode. I have not worked on my ZYX yet, can't tell you more about it until I work on it.


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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:16 am

kaos wrote:Did you use Gohsthb's FBL template or the heli template? heli template dose not apply to ZYX gyro (or any FBL controller). In FBL controlled heli, you use a simple 4ch plane template and all the pitch/head set up is done with the ZYX control box/program. Only throttle curve needs to be a heli throttle curve for ID mode. I have not worked on my ZYX yet, can't tell you more about it until I work on it.
i used Gohsthb's 450 template. which has two curves. he said in a post he has a governor function on his esc mine doesn't. i'm a newbie to all these things and in the process of learning. i can't understand which curve is for throttle or should i just place one curve from -100 to +100? thanks for any advice

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 am

you should have 3 throttle curves. one for norm mode, one for ID1 and one for ID2. (you can do it with only one idle up mode though)
ESC without governor mode, you probably will have a throttle curve in norm like -100 -20 60 80 100. ID1/2 would be something like 100 85 70 85 100 or similar 'V' curve. with governor mode you would have a flat throttle curve something like 85 85 85 85 85 depends on the head spd you want.
the throttle curve should be on the same line of mix for THR.
for example your throttle is at ch3:
ch3 100% thr c1 ID0
100% thr c2 ID1
100% thr c3 ID2
c1 curve would be your throttle curve at ID0 (usually norm mode), c2 would be your throttle curve when flip the ID switch to ID1 and so is c3. then in curves menu you define your curve like what I mentioned above for c1,2,3.
the pitch and tail setup you need to follow the instruction by ZYX. when you use ZYX you Don't want to use heli set up template. because that defines the cp mixing. FBL controller/ZYX does that part for you, not in Tx. The heli setup page/template in er9x is only for flybarred cp heli.

are you experienced of setting up a cp heli?

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:59 am

I can add the curves for you. Later when I am at a computer I will do that. Kaos, you are almost correct. It does use a typical 4 channel airplane as the base, but you need a pitch channel as well.
Flybarless "heli" always confuses people, they think they need a heli mode or template on the radio. That is not needed because the controller on the heli is doing all of the mixing.
-Gohst

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:35 pm

thank you kaos. now i somewhat understand why my heli won't lift up. i've got the wrong curves. i am a newbie and this is my first fbl heli or 6 channel heli. i have flown helis before but only the rtf one's and its my first time to use er9x on a heli but have used it with a skysurfer and cessna 182.

gohsthb that would be great. thanks.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:36 pm

New improved FBL helicopter templates. Now you will find 2 in this file. One is set up for an ESC with a governor. The other has curves for a non-governed ESC. I also added the sticky throttle cut to both, and set it to only engage the throttle from ID0 or normal mode.

-Gohst
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450FBL.eepe
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kaos
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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Voltzmd:
I assume you are using ZYX on a 450 size heli or up? 450 is a very powerful machine compared to any of your fp heli. Safety 1st. don't work on it without disconnecting at least two motor wires form the ESC. I would set up the throttle and TC 1st (without the blades on) until you get them exactly you wanted. it is not fun to have a 450 start spinning in the middle of a set up. Ghosthb's stick cut will add one more layer of safety on it. You can do all the head/pitch set up with motor disconnected.

ghosthb: The only issue I have with sticky cut on a heli is you cannot practice autorotation without completely landing it and take off again. That is why I stayed away from sticky cut on helis. unless I am missing something here?

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:16 pm

If you want to do autos, then use 2 different switches. One that you have to be in normal mode and is sticky, and the other that just instantly re-enables the throttle. :)
-Gohst

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:07 pm

Ah, that is a thought. simple cut still works for me. another sticky switch will bump the memory to > 230-40. but thx to SKY9x I don't need to worry about memory any more. ;)
Besides, I already have a hard time to remember which switch /pot is for what on my different models already.
Just spent a wk to transfer all my planes to my SKY9x Tx (I am going to use this one only from now on). Gee, moving from stock, er9x to sky9x and with different module/rx. Took me a while. almost have to reset everything. A couple planes I have not flown for a while, can't even remember what I programmed, might as well reprogram everything. :mrgreen:

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 am

thanks Gohsthb i will test that template. btw in your template the throttle only goes to 70%, will that be enough? also when i'm at full throttle should i follow the +11 degrees pitch on my blades? i think the curve on the template will put the blades more than 11 degrees.
Kaos what do you mean by 'sticky cut'? sorry all new to me and a beginner. anyway i have a long way till i learn all those 3d moves. will be happy with simple flying for now. yes its an alzrc 450 pro fbl i assembled last week. i will follow your advice on the set up.

so when i choose this template i should use the 3D set up on the tarot programmer? then change the values as needed?

will let you know how this all goes.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:08 pm

You will need to adjust your throttle curves for your motor, based on what head speed you want to achieve. I think on a 450 about 2200 is a minimum (mine would lose tail control below this). Check your gyro manual, the pitch adjustment is done through there. What you are giving the gyro is simply the full travel range to read on the input channel, then the gyro translates that to the actual blade pitch.
Sticky cut:
Throttle hold once engaged, meaning the motor won't run because you've disabled it with a switch, then you can't disengage the throttle hold until you are in normal mode "and" move the throttle stick to minimum. Let's say you turn on your radio, you check that the throttle hold switch is on, so when you plug in the heli battery the motor doesn't start. You walk out to the field, take a few steps back, check that the throttle stick is at minimum. You flip off the throttle hold switch. Without the 'sticky' heli version of throttle hold, 2 things could happen at this point. 1. the heli starts like you expected, because you had the mode switch in the normal/ID0 position. Or, 2 the motor immediately goes to full throttle probably stripping the main gear on it's way, and scaring the P**p out of you! Because you had that mode switch in one of the 2 other positions. That is what the sticky cut on a heli is for. Also on airplanes it was intended to keep the motor off if you happen to have the throttle up and accidentally turned off the throttle hold. Which without the sticky version would immediately start the motor at whatever power the throttle stick called for.

-Gohst

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:25 pm

volzmd:

You do want to have a higher head spd. higher head spd your tail holds better. but the heli is also more responsive/edgier. don't know what your motor/ pinion is. but set your throttle curve mid stick at 60% (20 in er9x) and linear should be alright. then increase as you feel more comfortable.
you probably want to set your max pitch at 9-10 degree in the beginning as this is your 1st cp heli. I set all my 450s at -12 +12. but that may be too edgy for a beginner. set it at 9-10 degree is perfectly fine for most flying unless you fly hard core 3D, which I still can't do. It will take a while before you can fly hard core 3D.
At 9-10 degree, you already can do flip and roll. A little less max pitch will make the control less sensitive. (same throttle stick movement have less pitch change)

Also, use the TG(training gear) until you can fly FFF figure eight. TG is so light for a 450 , it almost does not affect FFF(fast foward fly) at all. It will save you a lot of money and repair time in the beginning. Especially while you are still learning how to hover. Don't be attempted by people telling you to remove the TG until you are ready. I did my 1st flip with training gear on. think about it as a big 2000 size skid. ;) The TG will act like a big cushing while you land it hard and sligthtly off angle landing your balde won't hit the ground so easy. For a 450, you crash a little you are looking at replacing parts and repair. It is a lot more powerful , hence more destructive force too, compare to a FP.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:40 am

thanks Kaos and Gohst for the help. i was able to fly my alzrc 450 pro fbl a bit yesterday, just hovering and slow circuits. i adjusted the curves to make it more docile. sadly after 1 battery pack, i landed it and waited a few minutes then changed the battery. upon plugging in the battery (same brand and power with the first one-tiger 3S 2200mah 30C) one of the cyclic servos put out some smoke and it was dead. i don't know what happened. must have been a bad servo. ordered a set of servos now for replacement and spares.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:49 am

:lol: Welcome to the 'wonderful' world of cp heli. any thing can go wrong. ;)
if you are already flying slow circle, you are doing super as your 1st cp heli. I can fly circles, but I am not sure i can do slow circle well.;)
that is one of the hardest move in the beginning.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:34 am

Was there a setting for cyclic servo speed? would have been something in hertz. To high of a speed can burn servos.
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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:10 pm

Kaos they were not really perfect circles. was able to fly around a bit not steady or straight yet but will get there. this heli thing is a bit expensive but fun. i ordered a set of align servos for my cyclic. they run out of emax brand.

Gohst i don't think there was a setting for servo speed. one thing i noticed was the ball link on elevator was tighter than the other two. maybe that caused the servo to be over worked and burn.

will learn more as the days go by.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:36 pm

I have not running into a tight connector will burn out a servo yet. I think that one is just defective.

erhh, may I suggest some cheaper cyclic in the beginning. if you crash, most of time the cyclic will get damaged (some times it just need a blade brush on the ground depends on the attach angle). Align servo is a bit expensive to me. They are good (but for the money it is not the best) but expensive to replace. there are many cheap servos are good for cyclics. I only use servo <10.00 for cyclics (most of my tail servo is around 10.00 too ;) ). The tail servo is where you want spend a little money on and tail servo does not strip as easy as cyclics.
name a few I have used or using them which are cheap: T-pro 90, T-pro 90s, DS929, DS939 or even DS919, MD922 (these two I use for my tail mostly), but they are all under 10.00 a piece. both DS929 and DS939 are digital metal gear. I have one heli using HXT900 for cyclic, that one is only 3.00. as accurate as any good servo but it is plastic gear, no crash or blemish of blades for sure. These of course are not for hard core 3D, but again I am not flying hard core 3D either. ;) Until I can fly inverted figure 8 by instinct, then I will start attempting hard core 3D. flip and rolls are not considered hard core 3D, they are basic fly maneuvers. all the above servo I can do fip and rolls without any problem.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:31 am

the local hobby shop run out of servos so i had no choice. i have hxt900 spares but thought they will be stripped easily. do they hold long for normal flying? if they do i will place them in for the meantime. i can save the align servos for later.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:53 am

they won't strip if you don't crash. ;) It is plastic gear. Honestly speaking, I think metal or plastic, if you have a real crash, it does not matter, both strips. The metal gear in my experience is only good for minor blemish of your main blade with ground. I had experience of one crash from 3 ft, destroyed all 3 metal servos. it is how they are hit which no one can control if a crash happens. The 1st thing you want to learn is get that throttle cut into subconscious, like you can flip it in a blink in an emergency situation. If you hit the throttle cut before the blades hit the ground, you often come out alright. if the throttle is not cut, you are looking at servo damage some where. even they look alright immediately, soon something start to show up.
I see you are in philippine. if you can get stuff from HK. get them from there, save a lot of money if you fly cp heli. I have a set while testing my erazor gear combination, so far lasted 30 packs of hovering practice without any problem. I would say for cp beginner, 30 packs of flying without a crash is very good. ;) even it is striped, there is replacement gear at HK for 0.5 last time I checked. I have 10 of those in case I want to replace them. for normal fly HXT900 is plenty.

I always have a/a set of spare on hand to replace if I crash (ask my how I learned that ;) ). so I can take advantage of HK's cheap price (from local hobby shop), but it takes 2 wks for HK to ship to me in US, if they are in stock. Philipine is closer to China, may be it will be faster.

PS: I just checked my ZYX manual, there is a place to set up the type of servo and spd of servo you used. make sure you do that correctly. It can set 1520us/760us and digital/analog and cyclic/tail servo........ combination. Ghosthb's suspicious is right. double check that.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:02 am

+1 on the ds939 with metal gears. Plenty fast, plenty of torque. I've never striped one, the problem is the case cracks.
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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:28 am

its not really faster kaos via ems it takes 10-14 days also before it reaches me. the problem here is the customs and mail delivery system not hk. my previous order from hk, i tried registered mail for the first time, arrived in our country on november 29, 2012 but i got it just last week and even had to go visit the post office and ask them what happened to my parcel. apparently it got mixed up in the system and was tossed around from office to office, that's what they told me. had to call a friend who works in the post office just to get that sorted out. with ems its about 2 weeks but the items will arrive here the next day from shipping.
ok so i'll use the hxt's for now and save the align servos for 3d. i also order some extras from hk yesterday, hopefully they get here in two weeks.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:55 am

ghosthb:
put epoxy filling those DS939 flange cavity (and make it flat and even with sand paper if needed) underneath then use washer/servo mounting plate, then you won't break those flanges so easy. yes, that is the worst partof the corona DS series servo. i have broken those flanges just by tightening them up with screws. Then those goes to my foamies which can be held with hot glue. ;)

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by gohsthb » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:03 am

Nice tip about filling the flanges kaos. But in a crash I trend to break the case around the output shaft.
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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:18 am

yes, they did that on mine too. that case is the worst part of the servo. Can't imagine why can't they put something like the HXT900 case would be better (I tried, they won't fit). I had one time after a crash and can never figure out why I could not flip the heli, it turn out one of the cyclic case top is cracked and you can't see it without load, when that case crack like that, for gentle FFF there is no sign but under load doing flips (fast change of pitch from + to - and back) the axis will be off (cause the case top is cracked open) and throw off the swash.
But again, the epoxy fill may help a little on the whole strength too. Since I started using the epoxy, I have not crashed that bird yet. I can't say it will help on that for sure.
but it is only < 10 still better than breaking an Align servo. ;) I had a few damaged DS series, I actually mixed and match and salvaged a few damaged servo from them. (some break the case but gear is fine, some gear/motor is broken but case is fine. all DS series, if I remember correctly use the same casing).

PS: have you tried these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=16260

supposedly it is the exact copy of HXT900 but it is digital. ;) and look at the spd. ;) Disposable tail servo? 8-) I bought a few, just have not actually use them yet. Mine was in yellow case now they changed the color. The casing looks the same as HXT900.

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by voltzmd » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:45 am

your right kaos hxt900 held so far. do you know how to make the ground on the tarot? i saw some post in other forums about grounding it but can't quite understand how they do it

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Re: ER9X and Tarot ZYX-S Gyro

Post by kaos » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:08 am

I think they are talking about grounding to the CF body/tail. I really don't have much experience of needing a ground. In Philippine, it is tropical and humid, I don't think you need to worry about grounding. In cold and dry weather it is more of a concern.

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