Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF module

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Tue May 29, 2012 2:17 pm

When I get my OSD working and the new 2g cam, I will. I planned to have the big OSD main board inside the belly, the other little pieces will be under canopy(GPS, IR sensor), and cam will be right in front of the motor (dig a hole to place the pan/tile servo).

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Kilrah
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Tue May 29, 2012 8:52 pm

kaos wrote:also read from HK, the weak point in Floater is the nose, so I filled with 'GReat Stuff' foam. now this part will be the last place to break. :)
Well, I wonder what those guys have been doing to their plane then!

My first had the entire nose section emptied with only thin walls left, and even after a nose first crash all it took is a few drops of CA to put it together again...
And you could put 4 of these OSDs in there :mrgreen:

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Image

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Tue May 29, 2012 11:52 pm

crooked nose definitely don't need 'great stuff'. :mrgreen:
I guess they all like to do nose diving, me sometimes too. :)
As I mentioned before, for my plane flying skill, hmm, a little precaution is better. ;)

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by pldb64 » Wed May 30, 2012 2:25 am

Kilrah,

By the look of your pics, you moved the rudder/elevator servos to open up the space inside the body? ... Where did you move them to? Any chance of some more pics?

I have a spare AXN body and so have been thinking about using it for a first FPV setup.

What other components did you use?

Any info you care to share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Peter

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Kilrah
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Wed May 30, 2012 5:52 am

I moved the servos to the tail.

Image

This plane was initially intended to receive a camera on pan/tilt and full blown Eagletree OSD setup and LRS.

Image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxwjHAtMp2w

I did that, had a few flights, and then the small HD cameras arrived so I threw everything out and installed a modified Toshiba camileo S10 instead, much better. OSD is useless anyway. And then it received tons of different things as it became my test aircraft for anything new (cameras, R/C, video TXs...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGzIcZtC44Y
my 600 TV ln ccd works great but 38x38 is way too big for the Floater.
Huh??

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Wed May 30, 2012 6:19 am

ha! I see this is your new Floater. much better looking. ;)
How heavy is that cam on the nose? Can't believe it won't drop off while roll/loop the plane. Are you doing acrobatic balancing act while flying? :lol:
that size of flat surface won't affect the fly character? what I was concerned is the air resistance is too huge.
But looking at your cam. I might as well give the 38x38 a try. won't that cam shake a lot with just a little velcro on the bottom?
envy the cloverleaf antenna you got. AND that little 50mW Tx.

I think you are right. OSD will be fitted for bigger planes.

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Kilrah
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Wed May 30, 2012 6:45 am

The GoPro is about 120gr with the TX and replaced lens, and is much bigger than yours. Yes there is more resistance, but who cares... I can still fly for 15 mins on a 3s 1600mAh pack. Velcro is nice to absorb vibrations actually.
Rolls... well, just don't :d That plane is a dog for that anyway. Even with as much aileron deflection you could possibly get it takes like 3 seconds to do a roll, so well. It's made to fly right side up...

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Thu May 31, 2012 6:22 am

hmm, those servos moved to the back is a good idea. makes a lot of room for OSD stuff and less wire tangling. but inside the body is better. I think I can move those 2 servos right under the motor (my belly is gutted already ;) )where the exhaust hole is and still enough room at the center for the V8FR Rx to fit in between. Just a little tricky to fix the servos, but doable.

Just made the pan and tilt cam mount working properly with the goggle/Tx. pretty neat stuff. :D but all together with the 200mW Tx/antenna and wires, it is pretty heavy. those are HK FG P/T mount and HXT900 9g servos. may be more than 120g. WHAT ABOUT that 50mW TX! ;)
just need to dig a hole right behind canopy to secure the pan servo in.
Still no words from the OSD seller though. :(

Is it going to be a problem if I remove the tx antenna's black plastic stick casing and just use the wire inside? that will reduce some weight.

Just in case you don't know. read from HK, you can roll Floater fast with rudder or cut the wing tip off where it tapers up. I will try that after everything works/flies as it is.
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by jhsa » Thu May 31, 2012 8:03 am

If you cut the wing tip on that plane you'll be reducing the wing area.. Not a very good idea IMO as it is carrying extra weight anyway..

just my 2 beers.. ;)

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Thu May 31, 2012 1:39 pm

kaos wrote:Just in case you don't know. read from HK, you can roll Floater fast with rudder or cut the wing tip off where it tapers up.
Yeah, but as jhsa said you don't really want to reduce wing area when you load it up with a ton of stuff.
There are MUCH better airplanes to do aerobatic flight, so I won't try to do anything else than nice and calm flight with that one.

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Thu May 31, 2012 3:45 pm

Agreed. add that cam plus the OSD (all the parts and wires together is as heavy as that cam and Tx), it will be a heavy bugger.
On my easystar, I've flattened the wing with an hair dryer.. It's a long process and things can go wrong.. but it worked
people are using a blade to cut it. I think it would be faster. ;) Actually, my soldering 'gun' came with a few 'foam shaping' tips. I have use it to cut/form foam sheets/blocks. it is like cutting butter. ;)

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jhsa
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by jhsa » Thu May 31, 2012 4:11 pm

Yeah, but the plane will not fly as good and will reduce the flight time because you will need more speed to keep it flying and will use more battery. And being heavier will also be less responsive... I've seen the picture of the floater and the wing tip area is not so small.. also it helps to stabilize the aircraft.. If you plan to fly FPV you want a very stable plane.. if you want to do aerobatics, get another type of plane..
The plane doesn't roll so well probably due to other factors like small control surfaces or undercambered wing profile..

Now, if you want a good roll rate on that floater, just cut the wings about half each side, mount a jetcat turbine instead of the brushless motor and reinforce the wings leading edge and spar a little.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Just my 2 Whiskeys ;)

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Thu May 31, 2012 4:18 pm

yep, I saw that EDF jet mod on floater or similar plane. pretty neat, don't need to worry about cutting your finger. :D
that will be the down the road project. and only use the 2g cam with pan only and THAT 50mW Tx. ;)

I think I will put he full fledge FPV on my 1.2m P51D for some aerobatic stuff in the future. ;) this is my 1st FPV 'test bed' for sure. One step at a time, BUT plan for the future. ;)

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:40 pm

finally got my Floater Jet maiden. It is a very stable nice flying plane for FPV. But I think it can do some aerobatic too. Don't have a chance to test it fully. thx for the suggestion kilrah.
but it is not all without incidence. lost one antenna of my Rx. :-S
here is the maiden vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg9XbtEFL7k

when that motor turned loose the blade cut into exhausted hole and cut one of the antenna wires. Thire is no glue on the top tab of motor mount, only a little at the round verical plate with those contact glue. :-S
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120610.jpg

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:09 pm

OK, got my DOA NOVA Cyclop V1.1 replacement set by seller (very nice service), and so far all system seems working properly (only have not tested the RTH function and GPS and RSSI.

Just found out in another thread, the manual says using a 3 position switch to change display mode and fly mode is wrong. It needs a toggle switch to change.

"yep, just confirmed, it actually needs a toggle switch to flip back and forth to change the screen display mode. change the 3 position to 2 position (100 or -100), it works; hook to TRN switch with FULL, it works; hook to GEAR and flip back and forth, it also works. of course the TRN works better/easier.
what wonderful manual they write. :-S
I guess this would be true for the fly mode change too. dang, now I need two momentary switches."

now the question is how do I get RSSI signal from FrSky Rx? and looks like I am running out of 8 ch too.
ch1 ail ch2 ele ch3 Thr ch4 rud ch5 ail2 ch6 display toggle ch7 cam pan ch8 cam tilt
Looks like I need PXX 16ch now. ;)

how do I get a RSSI signal with all ch filled? which Rx ch in Frysky Rx output the RSSI signal? I do have a V8 rx and a D8 rx.

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:38 pm

kaos wrote:I guess this would be true for the fly mode change too.
Hmm probably not. I guess there are only 3 flight modes, but more than 3 displays hence the toggle approach...
kaos wrote:now the question is how do I get RSSI signal from FrSky Rx?
You can't. There's no way to get it if you use normal servos. You can only have it if you use a D4FR, D4R-II or D8R-XP and have set it to PPM mode.

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:34 pm

Kilrah wrote:I guess there are only 3 flight modes, but more than 3 displays hence the toggle approach...
actually there are 3 display mode and 3 fly mode - according to the 'manual'.
Kilrah wrote:You can't. There's no way to get it if you use normal servos. You can only have it if you use a D4FR, D4R-II or D8R-XP and have set it to PPM mode.
dang, did not know this, otherwise I would have ordered a D8R-XP instead of my D8R-II plus. :-S

when you say 'normal servo'. what servo I need to use with?

Any way, can you use a D4FR with a V8FR-II or D8R-II plus, and in PXX 16ch setup (I can use more than 8ch anyway, add a D8HT built in tx module). For OSD system I don't need telemetry Rx to have all those info , just the RSSI.
My Tx module is telemetry capable DJT.
I know the dip switch on RF module for telemetry rx is set differently from non telemetry. I only tried non telemetry switch setup does not connect the telemetry Rx. have not tried the other way around yet.

or can you pair the flysky module with Frysky module using PXX? then try to get a RSSI capable rx to pair with one of them.

Lots of questions here. Too much I don't know. :mrgreen:

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:43 pm

You can't have RSSI with any FrSky RX with your setup, end of story. To have it, you need to switch the receiver to PPM mode, but then you can't connect any servo to it anymore. You need a flight ocontroller or something that can take a single PPM signal with all 8 channels on it.

PXX is stil alpha stage, only for testing and doesn't offer any additional functionality.

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:04 pm

OK, looks like I will live without RSSI signal for now. until further discovery of other system.

and I may have to settle using only one F16 display mode and use the only toggle switch/ch for fly mode change. that RTH is important when this baby is 2 Km out there. ;)
or rewire the floater and get rid of the flaperon to get one extra ch for toggle switch (that is more trouble , the wings are glued in already).

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:55 pm

After searching about 200 web page/you tube, finally got this confirmed:
the screen display switch should use a toggle switch to toggle among the 3 screen mode, and the fly mode needs a 3 position switch to change.
also, obviously the NOVA OSD PA(auto level)mode and RTH cannot have any mixes with Ail or ele.
Looks like I need to get rid of the flaperon on the floater now. That I don't have much problem, during the test I found Floater does not need flaps at all.

Is there an OSD system with GPS fly route or RTH that can use mixes. Eventually I like to have an OSD with GPS fly frouting, and RTH capability but still able to use mixes on the plane?

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:07 pm

Ok, rewired everything in my floater with some extension connector to the batt compartment. now I can put the OSD under the canopy (that still needs some work to position everything inside the canopy above the batt). only the belly of Floater is full of wires now. ;) Have all the switches for the display and fly mode ready.

One question here. can the GPS module be mounted under a plastic canopy/foam body? how much effect of reception if it is under the canopy or inside a foam body?

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by Kilrah » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Yep, thin plastic is no problem. Proximity of the rest of the equipment is what usually causes trouble, so I usually still try to put the GPS outside, and as far as possible from any other electronics.

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:29 pm

I think I have finished testing the AXN. using the stock 5x5, 5.5x4.5, and 6x4. only the 6x4 may be a 'tad' better but less fly time. The stock prop is probably the way to go. No aerobatic for sure. circle, inside/outside loop, inverted that is about it. yes, it rolls really slow. funny thing is it is fairly quick to roll from upright fly to inverted and vise versa, but a full roll takes some yardage. :)
here is the last test fly. I think it is ready for FPV now. Next fly will be FPV goggle with p/T without OSD.
http://youtu.be/zQyXi0nKS9o

also made some mod to the plane so everything FPV will be inside the body beside sensors:
Attachments
120708-4.jpg
the tx and P/t cam assembly will be mounted like this. OSD will go under canopy. lowered the batt a little and there is enough room to fit in the OSD main board.
120708-2.jpg
the box is through into the belly for wire connection and Tx just sits in there. two servo connector for p/t servo. the hole in front is for the pan servo and cam. all will be 'modular' and detachable.
120708-3.jpg
made a box and hole for placement of Tx. two extension connector for p/t servos, a hole for the pan servo and cam
120708-6.jpg
This is how the tx and P/T cam will be mounted

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:05 pm

Well, still working on some wiring adapter/mounting bracket for the OSD, this morning the weather/temperature was just so good, took the AXN out one more time before FPV, and surely enough I found out the limit of this AXN. :) :) have fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GEkDJWAhg

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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:25 pm

ha ha, get to test my self made clover leaf antenna. To start with, order the wrong connector (male instead of female) until I put them on the Tx/Rx. :? so ordered a couple female/male adapters. Just got it a few days ago. Also running into problem of solder not sticking to the copper plated welding wire (still don't know the reason yet). So I made myself the ugliest looking clover leaf antenna ever made. ;) but it works - at least in close range.
Just by walking around the yard and house through rooms, it already shows better reception than the stock stick antenna. A lot less interferences (almost none) compared to the stick antenna. With stick antenna when I walk around in the house/yard, there will be lines/interferences shows up on the screen here and there. but not with these home made ugly clover leaf antenna, the image is dead solid. :D Will see if the range is greatly affected by what I think there is a lot of cold solder area on the antenna.
Attachments
120723-1.jpg
on the goggle and Tx
120723-10.jpg
for rx, 4 leaves
120723-3.jpg
for tx, 3 leaves

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kaos
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Re: Can this Full fledge FPV system be done with stock RF mo

Post by kaos » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:04 pm

I can't believe it has been 1 1/2 yr since I started this project. Side tracked by other things. ;)
But I finally finished putting the Cyclop OSD inside the AXN while maintaining its grace. :)
Have to move the ele/rud servo out of the body to the tail and create a custom cradle for the current sensor and cram the whole gully with ESC, OSD board, a V8 Rx and miles of wires. ;) the belly is filled with wires - literally. Indeed, it is a wiring nightmare.
the OSD board is 1cm above the ESC. I thought it may give me crazy interference, but it did not. The board functions perfectly on ground test with full throttle. ;)
pldb64 wrote:Would be very interested to see the internal setup as well if you've be so kind? :-)
Here is some pic of the final AXN:
140206-2.jpg
ele/rud servo moved to the tail (I stole Kilrah's idea ;) ) and ripped out the long push rods and sheaths.
140206-3.jpg
The toggle button on the left of lipo is for OSD setup function.
Lipo is not connected when pic was taken.
140206-5.jpg
Below the current sensor cradle is the OSD board and further down is the ESC, 1cm spacing in between.
140206-7.jpg
The current sensor is not fixed to the cradle, I am still debating whether I should nail the sensor to the wood cradle. It is a little easier to connect lipo when the senor can be moved.

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