[SOLVED] Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

er9x is the best known firmware. It has a superb range of features and is well supported by the community. Well worth trying out.
Post Reply
nvd07
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 am
Country: France

[SOLVED] Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

Post by nvd07 »

So I am trying to get a buddy box / trainer-trainee arrangment to work between my two 9X transmitters, I had this in mind for some time (as I learned the hobby this way in the 80's , before the simulators) and also a young neighbor recently showed interest in RC aeroplanes... I figure that in these times of 'Fear of Drones' and of additionnal regulations, it would be good for our hobby to count more RC enthusiasts.

I have read the er9X PDF instruction manual about Trainer and searched the previous threads too, but so far I have not managed to give control to the TRAINEE/BUDDY via the TRN switch of the TRAINER...

There are so many hardware configurations that I am not sure I am doing things right - so once more I am resorting to this great forum for help!

Also, in the past months I have been able to run a flight simulator from the jack/output ports of either radio, connecting them to an arduino NANO/USB. So from this simulator success I was hoping the trainer/trainee connection would be easy to do...

here's what I have been doing :

CABLE :

an audio cord, stereo male/male jacks, I had it around, from PC speakers or something like that
I have read on the forum that the Trainer port was intended for mono jacks but STEREO would do

TRAINER :
my FLySky TH9X '128 running test version er9x-128StackTez.
Has the MULTIPROTOCOL module in the bay.
Radio is turned ON by the master switch.
Radio / controls menu - i have NOT enabled ppsim here
Model / general menu - Trainer is Ticked
Radio / trainer menu - more or less set as shown in the PDF help : to replace channels (:=) when TRN is activated.
IMG_20201128_TRAINER_RadioCONTROLS.jpg
(306.68 KiB) Not downloaded yet
IMG_20201128_TRAINER_ModelGeneral.jpg
(140.32 KiB) Not downloaded yet


TRAINEE :

my Turnigy 9X '64 running the earlier er9xProv822v.
Radio / controls menu - i have ENABLED PPMSIM here - which would avoid doing the "training port mod, resistor or transistor (not sure)"
Has no module at all in the bay - which should help as well - but if I am wrong, I could put one, if advised to.
note: if it matters, this radio has the HobbyKing backlighting harness/kit, without any mods to it.
Master switch OFF .
the Radio turns itself on when I plug the jack.
backlighting does not turn on when the jack is 'in' - which was a good sign the HobbyKing harness did not need to be hacked after all .
The 'active' model is similar to the Trainer's model but i read the settings do not matter.
IMG_20201128_TRAINEE_RadioCONTROLS.jpg
(328.24 KiB) Not downloaded yet


RESULTS:
So on the TRAINER radio when I go look into the Radio/trainer menu, during some of my attempts I could sometimes notice non-zero channel readings at the bottom ('CAL' line), and I could null them by the 'menu' button. However they are frozen ,they do not follow the Trainee's sticks movements. So I suspect the values I saw were incorrect/transient values that got acquired at the instant I plugged the jack, and they do not get properly replaced by a stream of valid PPM signal afterwards. Here is a bad photo before nulling though CAL/menu:
IMG_20201128_201043.jpg
(864.08 KiB) Not downloaded yet
And on the TRAINER radio, if I deflect my sticks, and while still deflected I activate the TRN momentary button in an attempt to give the control to the TRAINEE, I am surprised that my servos stay deflected, ie the TRAINER's sticks are still driving the servos, and the TRAINEE's inputs (sticks at zero, before or after calibration) are not replacing the TRAINER inputs... But it may be an intentional safety measure of the firmware for cases where the PPM stream is corrupted or missing ?

So it could be any mistake from my end :
- some incompatible mods ,
- lack of a required mod
- a jack/cord problem
- incorrect settings in the menus...

Unless somebody sees some grossly incorrect hardware or menu settings in what I described above, I think I will need to investigate my hardware and jack connections with the oscilloscope... However first I might quickly try the flightsim again with both radios, to see if it still works OK.

It would help me to know what to expect, on a correctly setup&functioning er9X trainer radio : what happens if the professor pushes the TRN switch at a time where there is no cable plugged into the jack socket, or at a time the cable is connected but there is some corrupted PPM coming in ? would the control of the aircraft be handed to this invalid/non-existent input , and therefore some unpredictable stunts would happen until the professor would release the TRN again?

thanks in advance for your inputs/help/suggestions !
Last edited by nvd07 on Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

Post by jhsa »

Please post a good picture of the trainer menu on the teacher radio.
Also, the student (Trainee) radio should not have the same model as the trainer radio. It should have just a default model with the main 4 mixes..

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
ReSt
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:34 pm
Country: -

Re: Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

Post by ReSt »

As João said, the teachers radio must have the fully programmed model while the student radio has a simple 4 channel model without any further mixes. The stick values of the student radio will replace the stick values of the teachers radio and all mixes of the teachers radio will be supplied. So in case the teacher takes control, he has the fully functional model available.

I just verified, my stereo cable does work.
I found, it is important to first power on the teachers radio, then plug in the cable and then plug the other end into the powered off student radio.
Next check is, to verify in the radio setup Trainer menu, that the values in the bottom line right to the "Cal" label vary when the sticks of the student radio are moved. And they should show the full range from around -100 to + 100.
Then set all four student radio sticks to neutral (middle position) and calibrate (set them to 0) in the trainer menu.
As you have set up the channels and switches in the trainer menu, the students stick movement should now be shown on the normal system menus of the teachers radio.

Reinhard
nvd07
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 am
Country: France

Re: Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

Post by nvd07 »

Ok thank you guys for your help : problem solved ! :D details below :
jhsa wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:32 pm Please post a good picture of the trainer menu on the teacher radio.
a bit better pic of the teachers radio with natural light : here are the settings I was using saturday.
IMG_20201129_101257.jpg
(739.29 KiB) Not downloaded yet
No changes were necessary today (sunday) to get things to work, see below

ReSt wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:05 am I found, it is important to first power on the teachers radio, then plug in the cable and then plug the other end into the powered off student radio.
I was not following this sequence , so this morning I followed it

jhsa wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:32 pm Also, the student (Trainee) radio should not have the same model as the trainer radio.
This was definitely an issue. I was using the same model, as it looked unimportant and things would be bypassed - however, I was wrong :
jhsa wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:32 pmIt should have just a default model with the main 4 mixes..
ReSt wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:05 am As João said, the teachers radio must have the fully programmed model while the student radio has a simple 4 channel model without any further mixes.
So this morning after I started up everything according to Reinhard's sequence, I had the same results as yesterday.
Next , as I was suspecting a PROTOCOL problem in the TRAINEE, i went into the Models list and selected my 'Simulator' model instead. This model solved it !
From this moment, in the Trainer radio the CAL/trainer menu's bottom row started being updated, and the TRN swith was able to hand the control to the Trainee! :P

It think what is critical is that the 'simple 4 channel model ' of the Trainee should have PPM protocol.

Next, I created a new dedicated model / from scratch : sure enough, the default protocol is PPM - which is immediately compatible with being a trainee.

In contrast yesterday I was with a 4 ch model too but it had the MULTI(=Serial instead of PPM) protocol.
And even though the enable PPMSIM is ticked in the trainee's radio menu, it did not override the trainee's model protocol choice (=MULTI) I had.

So as I was carrying over an existing 4CH model, it came with its own protocol (MULTI), incompatible with operation as a Trainee.
Correct(green rectagle) and incorrect (red rectangle)settings are shown below if it may help anyone else:
TRAINEE_model_wrong_protocol.jpg
(218.63 KiB) Not downloaded yet
TRAINEE_model_correct_protocol.jpg
(219.61 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Creating a new dedicated model is probably the expected way and the simplest way - however to save some memory space I will probably delete it and have the Trainee use my existing SIMULATOR model instead.



Last thing during normal operation where Trainee is in control, I tested disconnecting the cable: the Trainer's software detects that it is an abnormal condition; even if I keep the TRN switch pushed, the software no longer takes into account the trainer port; it shortly hands the controls back to the Trainer's sticks instead - there will be no transient unwanted stunts.


Thanks everyone as always for the explanations / great help !
I am all set now ! :)
ReSt
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:34 pm
Country: -

Re: Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

Post by ReSt »

Last thing during normal operation where Trainee is in control, I tested disconnecting the cable: the Trainer's software detects that it is an abnormal condition; even if I keep the TRN switch pushed, the software no longer takes into account the trainer port; it shortly hands the controls back to the Trainer's sticks instead - there will be no transient unwanted stunts.
That especially was included by Mike just in case you pull off the connecting cable while you are flying. As soon, as there is no valid signal coming over the cable, the teachers radio ignores that input and uses its own signals. That's also the reason, why the teacher must use the fully programmed model on his radio.

Reinhard

User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Yet another help request: Trainer/trainee, two 9X's ...

Post by jhsa »

Yes, that is a safety feature..
Well done fixing the problem :)

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

Post Reply

Return to “er9x”