Can't be good for the hobby :(

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jhsa
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Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by jhsa » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:04 am

Stupid thing to do.. Because of people like this one day we won't be able to fly any radio controlled aircraft.. :(

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... a3df87b743

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKV6g47h ... e=youtu.be

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Flaps 30
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by Flaps 30 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:36 am

Well... This is was to be expected, and it will lead to restrictions to RC flying along with severe penalties for those that reckon RC flying is a right to them to allow them to do what they like when they like. Let's be clear in saying that RC flying/model flying is a privilege given to us and controlled by the CAA or FAA or whatever other aviation authority you have. They can change the law/ANO's to whatever they like when they like that could stop us dead.

Sadly I have to say that our hobby does have the thug element with the stupid ones with us that creates problems for those who promote the hobby in a positive way, along with responsible safe flying. BTW - Don't get me started on FPV in the UK :( :x :evil:

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Kilrah
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by Kilrah » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:51 am

Once again it's not the tool, it's the operator.

When a guy throws a shoe at the president you put the guy in jail, you don't ban shoes in the whole country.

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by thomas9x » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:08 pm

When a guy throws a shoe at the president you put the guy in jail, you don't ban shoes in the whole country.
It's a bit more complicated. Unlike shoes which are considered essential to our lives, R/C models are perceived as unnecessary boy toys by the general public. Furthermore, the average Joe thinks of them in unpleasant terms too (spy drones) and would care less if they got banned. Fortunately it was a small toy'ish looking quad, so that helped keep things lighthearted.

- Thomas

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ShowMaster
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by ShowMaster » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:28 pm

I see several taking off from our sanctioned field and flying over several very populated freeways and streets maybe a mile away, thinking nothing of the liability. I did ask one flyer how he's able to justify the long range flying over these areas and out of our fields boundaries and his reply was that he doesn't put any I'd on it so he can just walk away.
That's what's going to ruin the hobby, not using common sense in populated or busy areas and not taking responsibility if something goes wrong.
We are perceived as both kids with expensive toys and also able to spy on others. Fortunately spying on us not been important in the news, except for intercepting our calls, reading our emails, google collecting wifi info and cameras on every street corner.
I'm sure a few drones hovering over meeting and gatherings won't attract the press.
I'm sure that video won't show up on the 6:pm news. I also didn't buy any apple stock 30 years ago thinking the PC would put apple out of business so I could be wrong again here?


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Flaps 30
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by Flaps 30 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:31 pm

thomas9x wrote:Fortunately it was a small toy'ish looking quad, so that helped keep things lighthearted.
You can be sure that terrorists and those wanting to harm people would have seen this or have been made aware of it. The next 'toy; just might be full of explosives and nasty nails.
ShowMaster wrote:I see several taking off from our sanctioned field and flying over several very populated freeways and streets maybe a mile away, thinking nothing of the liability. I did ask one flyer how he's able to justify the long range flying over these areas and out of our fields boundaries and his reply was that he doesn't put any I'd on it so he can just walk away.
Yup. That sounds much like what I hear from a few FPV types when they are challenged. You can bet that if anything did happen, or someone reported a model flying in a dangerous fashion over the freeway, or one that caused a major accident even if by just being there. You can bet that the first call from the Police would be to your field/club.

I take it that you have or your club has no control over what these people do?

I get your point Kilrah. Various security alerts have lead us to have rather draconian airport security checks and measures in place, most of which are a result of the actions of a few individuals. This incident is no different and I have no doubt that we might see more interest taken by the powers that be in what we are doing as RC hobbyists.

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jhsa
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by jhsa » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:49 pm

Good that that quad didn't hit anyone there, specially one of the most important people in Europe or maybe even the world..
Even a small(ish) model like that one can do serious injuries if it falls on your head or hits your face..

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by Redbrickman » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:47 pm

Hmmm...

There once was an thriving olympic sport called pistol shooting that can no longer be done in UK due to the actions of a one lunatic.
Maintain thine airspeed.
Lest the ground arise and smite thee!

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by ShowMaster » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:38 am

Visited a local hobby shop that also runs a private RC airfield I belong to. He's having trouble with the quad flyers and other FPV pilots flying out of the fields legal boundaries. Complaints are coming from nearby home owners about privacy. His use of the land lease is in jeopardy. His trying to police the flyers has resulted in some heated arguments that required him to call the local police. He's frustrated and concerned he could lose his lease over it.
So it's another case of a few people using poor judgment possibly ruining it for everyone.
Please everyone, please be careful of our flying privilege and others privacy.

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jhsa
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by jhsa » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:07 am

That shows a complete lack of respect for the person that "owns" the place and let's them fly there..
Those guys need to be kicked out.. :(

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by kaos » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:18 am

there are some thinking I could not understand. Why people think a little quad over their head is dangerous while a real plane over their head is not? I see planes flying over my head all day long. why people think FPV is spying on them while hundreds of satellites are taking thousands of picture of the people on the ground all day long is not? When a police heli flying over the city and looking down on everyone is not spying on us, when there is no 'probable cause'? Small private plane flies over my house every day, and that is not spying/dangerous?
IF you fly a real plane and crash and hurt or kill people it is OK because you are insured? But we don't ban private plane flying albeit it has killed/hurt more ground people than any RC model.
If I drive by someone's house that would be spying on someone? If someone worried about swimming nakedly in their backyard and being deprived of their privacy from FPV, they won't have a problem if the neighbor is looking down on them from 2nd floor or higher ground?
Very strange thinking.

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jhsa
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by jhsa » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:09 am

Maybe, but polititians are not people.. :mrgreen:
And they will do everything to get a couple votes more ;)

But anyway.. I think models should fly in appropriate places for them.. Flying a model above a crowd is not a good idea.. specially a multirotor whatever it's size..
also we can't compare real aviation to what we do. There are hundreds of rules and security checks that a real aircraft has to pass before it's allowed to even taxi on a runway. Real aviation has altitude restrictions, and in addition, at least where I live we must avoid flying over populated areas. so, if you see a village, you fly around it..
About the people swimming, Maybe they don't mind the neighbor seeiing them ;) but do care if they show up on an youtube video.. Ok, the neighbor could do that also :)
The fact is, it's not safe flying models over people, and we shouldn't do it.. Polititians will look at it, and ban it. specially the ones with cameras on them.. :) if they are safe or not.. they make the laws. So, better we behave ourselves otherwise no FPV or even model flying.. And we can't do anything about it :(

João

P.S- - Kaos, do you really believe that flying a model over a crowd is a good thing to do?
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by cre8tiveleo » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:33 pm

LOL< Ar Drone 2.0, c**p 720 camera, silly people , at least throw a gopro on it to get good shots. Or Mobius.

Ar Drone is not dangerous at all, the blades are geared, and they stop on contact. it's so light, and yeah, still stupid. Parrot is behind a lot of this c**p (the developer of the Drone)

Look up how Parrot advertises their Drone, flying right up to kids and people faces, not very thoughtful of safety at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze84IaSnKFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fwjHO6VjWw




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kaos
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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by kaos » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:28 am

yep, ar drone is like my v959. the blades stop on contact. I can grab it any time it won't hurt me a bit. Fear is the biggest enemy. Not understanding something is the main reason for chaos. If a quad 450 is flying over the crowd, I would have something to say about it. The only thing I get out of the 1st vid is the security of the German president should all be fired. It took so long before they get to it. :) :)

as for the aviation regulation. for public transport, I think people have decided the convenience out weighs the danger. so we all accept it. As for hobby private plane, regardless of tons of regulation, it still kills more people on the ground than any RC model even it is unregulated. If 'harm' is the reason to ban anything, we have to compare all the hobby to see which is more 'harmful' before it is being banned. Only the fact can determine which should or should not be banned. Before any valid comparison, there is no reason to ban anything. As for the lawmakers making the law. that is the main source of chaos, once it goes into law making, i think I have said this before, special interest group kicks in. It rarely comes out what it is intended for.
Looking at how many rc model flights compared to real plane flights. What is the fatality rate for each? which you think is more dangerous? LIke I said, I see small private plane flying over my head everyday, where I live is only 5-10 miles from a small airport. once the plane is off in the air, they are already in populated area. there is no way to avoid that. But it is 'legal'. Height control does not work well for falling plane. when the plane is loosing control for any reason, it lands where ever it wants. at 800ft it could dive off 2-3 miles before it hits the ground, you can be flying in the air of noman's land but landing on someone's house when it hits the ground. Any pilot would try to avoid a crash, but when it is malfunctioning, you can't control where it goes.
I am not against private aviation. I just don't see the idea of 'banning' rc model when something else is more dangerous is allowed. I can get a FAA license in 2 months with all the reg/requirement needed. but to me, it is more dangerous for someone have a FAA license and fly 5 hrs every 6 months than any RC model flying. For those reckless people flying over a crowd, no law can prevent that. As Kilrah said, punish the person who is reckless, not the hobby. 'self regulation' does not work for reckless people. For average people, if you understand the danger, they will avoid it. For reckless people, they don't care any way. It is just like DUI. Every country has tons of laws about DUI, when did not prevent anything. You punish those people who do it, you don't ban people from drinking a glass of wine at dinner.

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by ShowMaster » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:56 am

It's simple, a real pilot and plane low over houses, pools, large gatherings makes people nervous as a sign of the big brother's watching paranoia. It's also the same with a little "Droid" as depicted in SiFi and many spy movies. Add to that the fact that law enforcement will be doing it if they can and stalkers of the rich and famous will also, the non toy airplane flyer is not buying into our fun.
So every time some jackass with his flying spying machine is featured on utube or the network news, it's another nail in our freedom coffin. The best thing we can do to prevent this is to stop posting videos and pictures and bragging on the Internet about it as well as stay off the network news. If we do it shouldn't be over populated areas showing good detail.
I have friends at a very large network news dept that at a party were trying to pump me for info on how far these can fly and the quality of the pictures or video sent back. They were fishing I'm sure for the next big story.
I think we all agree that every night a shooting is covered on the news it's not very good PR for the NRA and it's putting more pressure on the "good gun owners" that enjoy their hobby.
My motto is " don't be a RC jackass on the network news".

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by kaos » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:10 am

News is one of the main problem of modern society. there is no news reporter any more. They don't report story, they create story and sensationalize the story or has a personal agenda in reporting. A news reporter is supposed to be impartial. But they now create and twist the story to their own liking or to gain their rating. News is part of the problem in just about every thing.

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by ShowMaster » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:00 am

True but it helped pay for my ex wife's house and my new house. Among other carrier jobs I traveled the world as a network news crew member. The worse the news the more I made. My point is, you're correct, bad and horrific news is another persons bread and butter. Big money in news and they need a lot to fill in the 24/7 news shows. As they say in the news biz, if it bleeds it leads. Just posting a reality from one that's lived it!
I was at the recent Emmys and news crews were everywhere! I'm sure a camera quad would have really made a hit hovering over the stars arriving. Maybe next year.
BTW
I later managed soap opera shoots instead. We also traveled all over but brought petty woman along or hired locals and did fashion show shoots. Less money but lots of eye candy.
To be honest, something I miss flying RC.

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Re: Can't be good for the hobby :(

Post by jhsa » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:42 am

Kaos, yes the number of injuries/fatalities on RC model flying is far less than full size aircraft. thank God for that..
But the number of "uncontrolled" crashes is not ;)
Now, if this bigger number of crashes involving RC models were in populated areas, I think the injury numbers would be much bigger.
Fortunately there are many model flyers that only fly in unpopulated areas or in places designated for the hobby.
I'm in Portugal at the moment and I brought my tricopter with me.. Yesterday a friend wanted me to fly it in a little park in the middle of the city.. I refused to do it.. I was called may names but I'm glad I didn't fly there as there were people walking all over the place and you can't keep an eye on the model and on the people at the same time..
So we agreed to go to a bigger field near the river tomorrow.. no one there.. :)
And by the way, my insurance would no cover me if I damaged something or injured someone in that little park..

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