Is The 9X Finished?

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Flaps 30
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Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Flaps 30 »

Looking at the cost of the new Frsky transmitter makes me think that future hardware developments and sales of Megasound and other items for the 9X have effectively been killed off. From a financial point of view, you are better off by a large margin just dumping your 9X and going for the real thing.

For me as tempting as it may be to spend money I haven't got on the new Frsky TX, it doesn't make sense. I have three 9x's.. One that is for spares only. The other is partly modified (lacking voice module) and the main one has all the whistles and bells on it.. Yes it would be nice to spend the £30 odd to change out the Emartee unit or fit Megasound (that I haven't bought yet) to the other TX. But I do have a spare Emartee module. So you could say that I'm locked into the 9X..

If I was starting out again.. No contest. It would be straight to the Frsky TX and no messing around swapping chips out, cutting PC tracks, making a slot in the case for the SD card. Obviously I'm sure that some will take it all apart to give the case some crazy colour scheme or whatever..

So the countdown clock is ticking.. Soon it will be goodbye to all the hardware work that has passed and hello to a finished product where we become stick pushers again.. Bit sad really. :(

Now others may not agree or see this as a start to something new to tear apart and add stuff onto.. If that is so... Let's hear about it and your thoughts.. :)

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

I do completely agree with you..

There's already one thing to mod on the taranis.. Haptic mod :D

But I hope the 9x will still be around for a while..
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Rob Thomson »

I think the 9x will be around for some time.

Most people don't do all the mods.

Remember.... Just a usbasp and you can run a base open9x and er9x firmware.

But if you want more.. Well go for the Taranis!

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

I will enjoy my 9x's for a little while.. I can see a couple more mods coming.. ;)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by kaos »

I think there will be a long time before T9X goes away. Too many are out there. And there are people like to do mods, hand works.
Surely, if some one does not like to fool around with hardware mod will go for Frysky for sure. But T9x will linger around for a long time I think.
I also have 3 T9X. one completey stock - including FW, one has M64 with all the mods minus voice, and one SKY9X fully loaded. ;) that Sky9x will last me for a long time, before I 'have to' get a new Tx. without the wheel encoder, I doubt I will get a Tarnais. But Horus, yes. Provided it does not break the bank. ;)

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by rperkins »

a lot depends on the reception of the frsky. I wouldnt write off HK though. But if they can get as a good a margin on selling the frsky as selling their own branded stuff, they may let the 9x line wither. I'm hoping for another price war :)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

The 9x could get even cheaper lol
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by wallaguest1 »

the taranis radio still lacks some features like bluetooth,
a ver nice feature that would allow you to receive telemetry data from the FrSky telemetry and pass it to an android phone, painting the plane in the map position and so on,
Or maybe taking advantaje of the telemetry feature you could just select the waypoints you want the model to go in the phone, and send it over bluetooth to the FrSky radio, so an ardupilot mega takes the signal without any need of extra radio modems to achieve this feature

bluetooth would also allow a wire-free connection between two radios for training,

any one know how difficult would be ADD bt in the Taranis ?
haptic mode is also a nice feature to add.

The worst thing in my opinion is the shell, as the lack of wheel encoder, i would pay an extra 50$ for this radio if they had modified the shell to allow a quick wheel encoder,
buttons are nice bet they need to be in a cross pad so the navigation becomes really intuitive, however, the buttons in that vertical design is just very unconfortable to navigate with, like with JR3810
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by MikeB »

There is a serial interface available in the battery compartment. It was there just for debugging, but I got FrSky to keep it in the production version. It should be possible to add a bluetooth module to that (RS232 levels).

I've suggested adding "Stick scrolling". This allows the use of one of the sticks to do the navigation through the menus. I'm not sure where this might have got to. I have it working on er9x/ersky9x, but the buttons interface of the Taranis makes it less easy to add.

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Flaps 30 »

I so love thread drift.. :lol:

Talk of the Taranis, android phones, bluetooth and the ardupilot mega.. Sounds like a brilliant combination for the armchair pilot/couch potato flyer to get some fresh air whilst the model flies itself around the countryside. If that is your dream. Then who am I to complain. :)

I do have the haptic mod on the 9x. That was a valuable asset before voice was added. Since then I haven't used it at all. So maybe the same thoughts were going through the minds of the Frsky team during the design/planning stage.

But this thread is to me more about the 9X and how much life it has in it for the future.. I don't really see any future at all when it comes to new hardware specifically designed for the 9X. This has already shown up by the fact that the Gruvin board and the Sky board are no more. Sadly I see a very limited and probably an unprofitable market for Steven's products, as most people will not bother adding his boards with the risks involved of things not working and the nightmares that may come from setting things up. They will just go out and buy the Taranis and be done with the potential headaches and hassle.

Sure.. People like myself is locked into the 9X to some extent, but it will always be in the back of my mind while making changes or thinking of doing something to it, if it would be best to stop right here and go and buy a new radio.

I can just remember back far enough when I contemplated the 9x,.. It was a risk going that route. The advantages (which I cannot remember) outweighed the disadvantages (one broken cheap(ish 9x with nothing to show for it) of a cheap looking radio that I could put software onto it that was (and still is) complex to understand and difficult to use on the field. The Aurora 9 nearly got my vote (and money) as it was the only one around that offered a fairly comprehensive telemetry system with enough channels for my glider(s).

Now in the situation we are now from that of three years back... The competition has woken up. You can buy a real (tray of course) radio meant for serious flyers (Jeti DC16) that looks like it will do all that Opentx will do and give us the voice that is so usefull, or the compromise is the Taranis (non tray) that suits toy flyers which cobvers the majority of the flyers around the world. Yes there is the 9XR which fills the hole to some extent that the 9X will leave when production of it stops, or the price increases (as it will) due to dropping sales.

Right.. I had better get out of the house and onto another hobby that doesn't depend upon having no rain, wind or reasonable tempertatures... See ya all laters. :)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by MikeB »

I'm not dropping my main 9x upgrade idea - a single board that adds what isn't there by default, and uses the existing M64 as an input/output processor for sticks, switches, buttons and LCD. Possibly use the Arduino DUE as a basis.

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by ShowMaster »

No haptic? Who beta tested this tx? I guess they never stood on a busy flight line with gas, nitro, and turbines all flying in front of you as you're flying your plane? That and having them all with their TXs beeps counting down or beeping for other reasons, all at the same time. It can be hard to tell of its your tx beeping or theirs. Add our tx loud voice announcements and cellphone conversations going on next to us, whew! The voice option is of course a great feature but, the haptic is one of the greatest additions made to the 9x and even Sprktrum added it to the dx8.
Ok, now the "mod squad" has something to start working on. Yes, adding Bluetooth to it to maybe trigger an alarm on an android device would work but a FET or transistor switch and a small vibration cell phone motor or one from a toothbrush is so simple and inexpensive to add. Any chance there is an extra processor pin the FW could use for this Frsky engineers and FW writers?
If only I could find a set of Aurora Hitec sticks for my skyboard ver c 9x tx I'd be set.
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

you probably could do a whole new radio only using the due ;) Or doesn't it have enough pins?

Hmmm, Maybe not becaUSE of the LCD
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by MikeB »

FrSky have said their sticks for the Taranis will be available as spares.

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

And if we're lucky they maybe fit the 9x. ;)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by MikeB »

Due to a dodgy pot, I've fitted a stick assembly from a 9x into the Taranis prototype, mechanically they are interchangeable, that's why I mentioned them.

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by kaos »

wallaguest1 wrote:the taranis radio still lacks some features like bluetooth,
a ver nice feature that would allow you to receive telemetry data from the FrSky telemetry and pass it to an android phone, painting the plane in the map position and so on,
Or maybe taking advantaje of the telemetry feature you could just select the waypoints you want the model to go in the phone, and send it over bluetooth to the FrSky radio, so an ardupilot mega takes the signal without any need of extra radio modems to achieve this feature

bluetooth would also allow a wire-free connection between two radios for training,

any one know how difficult would be ADD bt in the Taranis ?
haptic mode is also a nice feature to add.

The worst thing in my opinion is the shell, as the lack of wheel encoder, i would pay an extra 50$ for this radio if they had modified the shell to allow a quick wheel encoder,
buttons are nice bet they need to be in a cross pad so the navigation becomes really intuitive, however, the buttons in that vertical design is just very unconfortable to navigate with, like with JR3810
I would say those mentioned are really what an 'end user' would want. The OpenTx has more function and program ability than 99.99% of the end users would use. but those mentioned are most users would like to have in a Tx. But from a business point of view, There is no chance for frysky to come out with a tx like that and profitable in the beginning. Because people don't know what Frysky is, the only way for Frysky to be successful is to get into the major market a foot hold and with openTx becomes a 'popular' FW, then they would put the investment in for a brand new Tx box (which cost a lot for a new molding). In another 2-3 yrs, all these will be a thing of the past, electronics develop at light spd. Look at Walkera Tx is gaining the market share now. because those gadgets on it (FPV screen), and telemetry, voice. these are the things end users are looking for. Most users are not looking for a way to make simple tx a super tx, they are looking for something they can pick up and use while not breaking the bank. For all the RC hobbyist, 9 out of 10 won't want to fool around with their Tx and modding their tx. If FRysky wants to be successful as tx maker instead of module maker, they need to put their emphasis on what most end user want, not what the modder want. Modder is a very small niche market.
Honestly, when I start looking at a Tx cost 2-300.00 or more, I want everything on there and no need for mod at all and have everything i wanted. If a iphone5's total cost including R/D, manufacturing, marketing... is only 150 + dollars (yes, that is a a true cost, that is why Apple has the largest cash reserve of any company) and can sell it for 300-400+ dollars, I don't see how a completely loaded Tx (as mentioned above) would cost any where more than an iphone5.
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Kilrah »

kaos wrote:I would say those mentioned are really what an 'end user' would want.
I guess you mean are NOT, right?

Interesting you mention Walkera radios gaining market share - personally the only place I see a lot of them is in the Deviation alternative firmware community ;)
Other than that, apart for the BnF Walkera stuff, I've never really seen them on the "mainstream" side.

The modding community may be a "niche"... but don't forget it also has kept the 9x afloat for several years past its due date!

BTW, the Taranis has a lot of potential for modding as well, and it's "easy" modding, not 9x-telemetry-mod kind of stuff. It goes from just inserting a plug in an existing connector to at worst soldering on nice big pads.
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by kaos »

rhh, what is NOT wanted? what is wanted? :) :) now I am confused. :mrgreen:

any way, like bluetooth, GPS, wheel encoder .... mentioned in the quote is WANTED. ;)

Yes, the niche market is what kept er9x and the whole thing going. But, once you get into higher price like 2-300 dollar range. I wonder how many people would or willing to pick up a hot iron and mod it. NOT ME. ;) for a 60.00 T9X , sure, why not , the gain is way outweighed the possible 'melt down', if it melts , so be it, it is 60.00. When I looked at the Taranis's full spec the 1st time, I say 'that is what I want', but then I see the lack of wheel encoder, BT.... I say: hmm, may be I should wait a little. After all my SKY9X can do everything Taranis can with BT and wheel encoder. If I have to use SBus, I can get a XJT(?) module. but the chances is low. I still can use 16ch with my SKY9X and better with different rx mixed (DSM + frysky or frysky + flysky....) so I put cheap rx for insignificant function and more expensive rx for critical function. ;)
NO doubt, if I am a new user looking for a new Tx from scratch TODAY, without existing Tx , Taranis will beat every one on the market that I can see for price/value. but for any one already has TXs to use and looking for 'better' ones, then the cost and the exising hardware he/she has already becomes a tipping point. With all the money he/she already invested in existing equipment, it is hard to dump all that and go for the Taranis while it is not really has everything yet. ;)
Any how, everything comes down to 'money', what is worth or not worth it all up to individual to decide. ;)

By the way, Kilrah, I think Walkera's FPV screen is one step closer toward the altitude gyro I wanted.

As for Flap30's comment about couch potato flyers, I would say a lot of template or programing we are making is already heading toward that direction. What happened to good old fashion flying skill? The pilot fly the plane based on the plane's fly character instead of using a bunch of computer program to control the plane.
Here is the scenario I was just joking with a friend 2 days ago.
A big guy sitting in a lawn chair with his right hand a beer, left hand a big cigar with a big umbrella shade over the head. He tells his friend he is going to show his hobby plane how good his tx/plane is. so he switch a button on the Tx, the plane starts, rolls to the run way and takes off. it flies according to his programed GPS route, in between, he flip a switch the plane will do a roll, another switch it does a knife edge, another switch it flies inverted, another switch the plane flies back, landed and roll right to his chair side all this time he is sipping beer, puff smoke. At the end he said: It is a nice flying day.
:mrgreen: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Rob Thomson »

I think that your view point on end costing is tainted slightly.

I have a similar issue. I already have a sky9x radio.

For those who have a sky9x system, the ly have already spent round 150 on their radio. It is hard to justify changing or upgrading to Taranis. (I will personally bite the bullet and upgrade)

However... For all the th9x users who have sat drooling at the sky9x board, and not being able to get one, or being too scared to do any mods.. Well... For similar spend. You can have it all, without the fear of screwing up the mod!

I have been chatting to loads of UK glider fanatics. The Taranis is kicking ip a bit of interest. Now.. These guys all are happy to spend 200 plus on a radio. They would never buy the 9x, because they view it as c**p. Fair enough. Their typical aircraft cost 400 and higher.

The Taranis fits their budget easily, and promises them allot. These I imagine will be some of the first buyers of the Taranis. :-)

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Kilrah »

kaos wrote:any way, like bluetooth, GPS, wheel encoder .... mentioned in the quote is WANTED. ;)
Ah OK, you see it that way. Then I'll say no - well yes, it is wanted by a small number of users like we see around here. But the Taranis is meant to go compete with "common" radios, for fliers who just fly "normal" models at their field and have probably never heard of FPV, arduino, multicopters,...
As said those fliers never were interested by the 9x because firstly it wasn't good quality enough, secondly they wouldn't have been able to do the mods needed to get something decent out of it, and thirdly didn't need, or didn't think they'd need the extended possiblities.
To those people a radio costs $500+.
At $175, with good quality, they will be interested and probably get it - with the "side effect" that they'll now have telemetry, audio etc that they probably don't care about so much, meaning they wouldn't have bought a more expensive radio just for that - but as they'll have them they'll probably try it and see how convenient it is.

That radio should then be suitable for the (much, much larger) mainstream market. BUT, it will at the same time also be great for tinkerers as it offers most of the things that are useful to them. Maybe not everything, but a lot. And if you need more, as said it will certainly receive interesting mods quickly after launch as several cool things are easy to do. Bluetooth would be nearly plug and play, you jsut need to make the right cable, no need to even open the radio.

BTW it's $175, not 200-300 ;)

Of course if you have a 9x with sky9x it won't be worthy of an upgrade (unless you want the higher quality hardware), as it basically IS the equivalent of it. But who said it should be? It's just the same level of offering but ready to use, neatly integrated, higher quality for cheaper.
kaos wrote:By the way, Kilrah, I think Walkera's FPV screen is one step closer toward the altitude gyro I wanted.
Actually I have a Ladybird V2 with HD cam and TX + Devo F7 on order, just out of curiosity :D Will see what it's like.
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by MikeB »

From a developer point of view, it is nice to have a standard hardware configuration. One of the problems with the 9X is different people do different mods. Trying to maintain the firmware to allow for all these is tricky. OpenTx runs into the problem that a "full" version will not fit on the M64, so you need to choose what you want.

Quite a bit of work is going into the Taranis at present, to get it "finished". Clearly, it needs to be right, many users will just want to buy it and use it, not "endlessly" upgrade the firmware. The 9X users have mostly re-flashed their Tx, so will be happy to continue to upgrade as new features are added.

I should think that Steven has sold over 3000 SP boards by now, then there are those who didn't use one. That's a reasonable number of people in the world who may well like more features added. The main "weakness", IMO, of the 9X is the pots/sticks. If these can be upgraded easily using FrSky sticks/pots, I can't see any reason why existing 9X users can't continue using them.

I took my prototype Taranis to my club meeting last night. Quite a lot of interest, including one who was considering a Hitec Aurora, but had seen some info on OpenTx. Seing it on the Taranis has definitely made him think, but he would not be someone who would consider a 9X and doing all the mods.

If you already have a 9X, particularly with telemetry and voice, then why bother with the Taranis?

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Flaps 30 »

MikeB wrote:I'm not dropping my main 9x upgrade idea - a single board that adds what isn't there by default, and uses the existing M64 as an input/output processor for sticks, switches, buttons and LCD. Possibly use the Arduino DUE as a basis.
Sounds good.. At the right price I would consider it.... Many questions arise. Top of list would be to be able to write (and erase) SD card via link, as many of us have buried SD cards into the TX, rather than having to cut out slots in the case. Maybe something for the future to chat about if it becomes a reality... Now I still have memories of the voice module... Some good and some bad.. The voice module started out as being something that most of us could knock up on stripboard using components that some of us have in our normal stocks of bits. So it was a project that was fun to build. Sadly (from my point of view) the latest version is one I cannot make up, as it involved a custom made PCB (very expensive as a one off) and a pile of SMD components that I do not stock, and in most cases I find difficult to fit due to eyesight not being as good as it was when I was twenty odd. So that leaves a lot of people wanting. We are lucky in a way that one of our members took the plunge and has produced them for sale.. Of course people still have the option of doing the module using the Emartee unit (which does work) and just accept that there is a long(er) gap with it compared to the Megasound.
MikeB wrote:From a developer point of view, it is nice to have a standard hardware configuration. One of the problems with the 9X is different people do different mods. Trying to maintain the firmware to allow for all these is tricky. OpenTx runs into the problem that a "full" version will not fit on the M64, so you need to choose what you want.
Yes I can see that is a problem.. The reason I 'upgraded' to the M128 was due to the fact that I couldn't fit all that I wanted to use when running OpenTX.. Not an upgrade for the faint hearted to be honest. So for the M64 users hit a brick wall... Which is where your idea hopefully would resolve that issue.
MikeB wrote:I should think that Steven has sold over 3000 SP boards by now, then there are those who didn't use one. That's a reasonable number of people in the world who may well like more features added.
Hmm.. I didn't realise that sales got to that level.. That puts a slightly different light on the subject of aftermarket additions.
MikeB wrote:The main "weakness", IMO, of the 9X is the pots/sticks. If these can be upgraded easily using FrSky sticks/pots, I can't see any reason why existing 9X users can't continue using them..
Okay. From my point of view I don't see the sticks as being an issue. You can shove your ball races as far as I'm concerned. No real need for them, and they can be a real pain in the neck as they age and get rubbish into them. This ball races=better IMO is a myth generated by the old stick in the mud (no pun intended) guys who see plain bearings as being cheap and not worth looking at. I will stir what I have and smile while doing it. :)

As for the pots. Yes that would be a good reason to change. I haven't hit a problem with them, all the same I will be trying out the hall effect device/bar magnet idea soon. Yes I will be wrecking a perfectly serviceable pot to try this out. I like the idea of replacing all of the pots with hall effect devices.. We shall see..
MikeB wrote:I took my prototype Taranis to my club meeting last night. Quite a lot of interest, including one who was considering a Hitec Aurora, but had seen some info on OpenTx. Seing it on the Taranis has definitely made him think, but he would not be someone who would consider a 9X and doing all the mods..
I do see the new TX as being one that targets the Hitec Aurora. Let's hope it hits them and gives them a wake up call. :twisted:
kaos wrote:As for Flap30's comment about couch potato flyers, I would say a lot of template or programing we are making is already heading toward that direction. What happened to good old fashion flying skill? The pilot fly the plane based on the plane's fly character instead of using a bunch of computer program to control the plane.
Yes that is one of my points. Go fly and get to know how to fly in different conditions before you do the fancy stuff. Even then. As yourself why before sticking in a whole lot of mixes, delays and whatever GVAR things.. Obviously this does not apply to people who use this TX for complicated stuff like controlling dumper trucks or whatever road type vehicle.. They need it all and more. :)
kaos wrote:Here is the scenario I was just joking with a friend 2 days ago.
A big guy sitting in a lawn chair with his right hand a beer, left hand a big cigar with a big umbrella shade over the head. He tells his friend he is going to show his hobby plane how good his tx/plane is. so he switch a button on the Tx, the plane starts, rolls to the run way and takes off. it flies according to his programed GPS route, in between, he flip a switch the plane will do a roll, another switch it does a knife edge, another switch it flies inverted, another switch the plane flies back, landed and roll right to his chair side all this time he is sipping beer, puff smoke. At the end he said: It is a nice flying day.
Yup..., When I see stuff about GPS on screen track information and all the other stuff. It does remind me of what you have written. I have to ask why is it needed and what are you going to do with it..
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

Kilrah wrote: Ah OK, you see it that way. Then I'll say no - well yes, it is wanted by a small number of users like we see around here.
Not so small, if I'm allowed to correct you.. Many people are waiting for HORUS for that and other reasons..
People only don't see what they don't want to see ;) :)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

Flaps, if there weren't for the new sound module, there wouldn't be sound module anymore as the emartee guys messed up with their modules.. Yes, it is not easy to build, but till now is the only solution.. also in time (when Mike has some time for it) will provide us with more features like file handling from the computer via serial connection and probably model storage on the SD Card....
Glad that someone is building a commercial version though..

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by kaos »

Kilrah wrote:Actually I have a Ladybird V2 with HD cam and TX + Devo F7 on order, just out of curiosity :D Will see what it's like.
Just can't keep up with you. Let me know your evaluation after you get it. ;)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote:People only don't see what they don't want to see
And some give too much importance to ridiculous details - just see RCG discussions, once the guys find nothing to moan about anymore they start debating for 2 pages over backlight color... :roll:
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by jhsa »

That is true, but a rotary encoder is not a RIDICULOUS DETAIL :twisted: ;)
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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by MikeB »

Flaps30: For the voice, I had hoped someone might do a run of my board design:
http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... 000#p38137
I don't have the time to do this. It uses all through hole components.
It is the pots I was most concerned about, the sticks seem fine really, but there have been a number of pot failures.

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Re: Is The 9X Finished?

Post by Rob Thomson »

jhsa wrote:That is true, but a rotary encoder is not a RIDICULOUS DETAIL :twisted: ;)
Funny... But for years we lived without them?

I know it can be quicker to navigate the firmware with one, but it is not a deal breaker on the radio.

Can you honestly tell me that people's decision on the type of radio to buy all comes down to a rotary encoder? I think not. :-)

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