why so complicated ?.

[micka]

can i ask someone on here, why do you have to make opentx so complicated ?
with so many steps to do simple things like mixing , or choosing channels etc
all othe radios, futaba jr even spectrum have simple 2 or 3 step, is there any reason opentx cannot be like that, it just seems very very over complicated and designed by computer experts rather than model flyers ? , i hope i never have to alter anything at the field as that will be end of days flying
anyone help on this ?

[jhsa]

can i ask someone on here, why do you have to make opentx so complicated ?

Everything is complicated when we don't know how to work with.. Have you at least read the OpenTX manual?

with so many steps to do simple things like mixing , or choosing channels etc
all othe radios, futaba jr even spectrum have simple 2 or 3 step, is there any reason opentx cannot be like that, it just seems very very over complicated and designed by computer experts rather than model flyers ?

Simple things like mixing? all the other radios have pre programmed mixes and you just select the one that is more convenient to you. But that comes at a price, flexibility. For example, those radios only have their own channel order. In OpenTX you can chose the channel order you want. with the right RF module, you can fly models that were design to be used with any other system. With the other radios you can't do half of the stuff you do with OpenTX. I use ErskyTX on my radios, which is similar to OpenTX. I do mixing for my models that you can only dream of being able to do on other "expensive" radios. One of them is the automatic throttle on my gliders. The model reaches 100 meters of altitude, and the motor cuts slowly, then the model glides down, when it reaches about 20 meters, the motor starts again by itself. This is the kind of stuff that you can do with such a system. as far as I know, you can't do this with any other system..

i hope i never have to alter anything at the field as that will be end of days flying
anyone help on this ?

well, as I said, learn how to use the radio. read the manual, there are also plenty videos on YouTube..

João

[micka]

hi
thanks for the reply
but not quiet true, futaba, you can choose any chanel and mis , also can move any chanel on the receiver to suit your own system , it has at least 12 open mixes !!
as far as cost , horus x10s £411 plus battery and charger and sd card = £502 , futaba 16 chanel £535
i do feel like opentx is just for computer buffs and quads , not fixed wing
i have read opentx manual , and every screen looks like excell, if you do this it will crash don’t do that it will crash etc etc , why is there a system that seems so fragile
i’m going to try as i think as you said it might be worth it , although at moment it seems like a lot of people have made it up as they go along with no continuity at all
and what if you haven’t got a computer just ipads your screwed ,

[micka]

p.s
i have horus 10s express, and not seen manual for this

[jhsa]

hi
thanks for the reply
but not quiet true, futaba, you can choose any chanel and mis , also can move any chanel on the receiver to suit your own system , it has at least 12 open mixes !!

Hmm, I don't really think you can change channel order in Futaba radios.. It is AETR and that is it Also, 12 open mixes?
in OpenTX every mix is an open mix. You just tell the radio what to do, Futaba and others tell you what can be done. I don't think you even have logical switches. Only them bring programming a model to another level..

i do feel like opentx is just for computer buffs and quads , not fixed wing

Not true at all, quads and multirotors in general require very simple mixing. all the hard job is done by their flight controllers. I am not a computer buff like you call it, but I did learn to use my radios, in my case ErskyTX firmware. and by the way, I fly fixed wing. Acro, gliders, and also do glider towing with a 62CC engine powered Tony Clark Piper Cub. So, only for quads?? I don't think so Do you want more fixed wing than this??
Some of my club friends use High end Futaba radios, still the telemetry is kind of a joke compared to my cheap radios with open source firmware. My radios are DIY by the way.. well, the cheap Chinese 9x radios with upgrade boards and gimbals, bluetooth, SBUS receiver built in for wireless trainer, and a few other goodies that many expensive systems can only dream of
I do own a Futaba T8FG, and it is a joke compared to my other radios It is used as paper weight at the moment

i have read opentx manual , and every screen looks like excell, if you do this it will crash don’t do that it will crash etc etc , why is there a system that seems so fragile

Every system is fragile when the user doesn't know how to work with it

and what if you haven’t got a computer just ipads your screwed ,

No you're not. You can perfectly program your radio directly. No need for a computer unless you want to update the firmware..
I agree that this kind of system might not be for everyone.. It is a different concept. You can do what the heck you want with it, while (as I mentioned above) the other systems tell you what you can do.. They are very limited compared to the open source firmware.
If you are going to use your radio, you will have to be open minded and be prepared to see model programming in a different way. You have inputs, and outputs, and you direct any input you want to any output you want. This is the basic concept. And there are all kinds of inputs. sticks, physical switches, pots and sliders, telemetry, logical switches, etc. search for examples. start with basic mixes, the very simple ones, like the ones used for quads..

João

[jhsa]

p.s
i have horus 10s express, and not seen manual for this

Are you sure your radio has OpenTX by the way? I think they ship with FrskyOS, not OpenTX.

João

[micka]

hi
yes it came with fros on, but i have given to someone to install opentx, as they and a few more convinced me it was better, should get the radio back on friday, the futaba i had was the 16z and that you can change channels to any output and has lots of open mixes.
as i said i might be jumping the gun , but just scared of doing something wrong and it all going to pot in the air , i know people say you can see on computer , but it’s not the same as when your actually flying, i have a few large models and big scale gliders 5/6 mtr and don’t want to see them go in
just first time nerves i suppose

[Kilrah]

If it's not for you just stay with FrOS, that's precisely made to look more like a "main brand" system, pretty similar to Futaba actually.

Hmm, I don't really think you can change channel order in Futaba radios.. It is AETR and that is it

Took them (lots of) time but now they have output assignment on most radios. Used to be only on top end models but it finally trickled down.

For us the open firmwares are much simpler and more straightforward than trying to use what manufacturers think we want, and that's why we use them. You don't have to and we have no reason to try and convince you to.
You say complicated, we say simple. What you find simple we find complicated.

[jhsa]

Took them (lots of) time but now they have output assignment on most radios. Used to be only on top end models but it finally trickled down.

Woow, it looks like they have been watching us this past 9 or 10 uears

My advice is, go slowly, only fly with the radio when you are comfortable with it.
Fly smaller models first, they can be fun too. Make a slow transition from one system to the other.. Learn how the mixer works. Once you do that, the rest is pretty simple.

When you load a default model and open the mixer you see four mixes on the first four channels. Each mixer has an input assigned that corresponds to each of the sticks. Like this, if you move one of the sticks to full travel, the servo connected to that channel will move by the amount of the weight set on the mix, positive values to the right and down, and negative values if you move the stick to the left or up. If set to 100% it will move the full travel for each side of the stick movement. If you set it to 50%, it will move only half of what it moved before. If you set the weight to 0 (zero), it won't move at all. If you apply negative values, it will start reversing in the same amount as I explained above. This is the basic operation of the mixer.

Next, use for example channel 5, and instead of setting the mix input to a stick, try setting it to a switch. Now the mix is controlled by that switch. Change the weight. Offset is a little more complicated, but forget it for now. Once you understand it, it is also not so hard.

Now you can move to more complicated mixes, for example, we want the airplane's rudder to move just a little when you move the ailerons. Normally, the other systems say that you add rudder to the aileron. THIS IS WRONG. What they really do in the background is the complete opposite. and that is one of the reasons people get confused.
So, if you want the rudder servo to move when you move the aileron stick, you will have to ADD a bit of Aileron control to the rudder channel. You want the aileron stick to control the rudder a bit, right? Make sense?

Ok then you take the basic mix on the channel you have the rudder servo connected to, let's say Ch1 (channel 1).

Ch1 iRud 100% (this is the basic rudder control mix, right?)

Ch1 iRud 100%
+= iAil 20% Switch (whatever switch you like)

Now when you move the aileron stick, the rudder servo will move 20% of the aileron stick movement. This is the simplest mix you can do. Play with it.
See the symbol "+="? It means the mix is an ADD mix. It will add its value to the mix or mixes above it. Again, play with this on your radio or in companion, look at the channel output values until you understand what it does. It will eventually make sense.

There are 3 different types of mix.
Add, replace, and multiply.

ADD, Which is the type we used on the first example above. It adds some value to the mix or mixes above it.

REPLACE, as the name says, it completely replaces the mixes above it. For example, a simple throttle cut.

Ch3 iThr 100% (normal throttle mix)
R (switch) -100%

The second mix, when the switch is active, will replace the mix above it, that means, the stick will not control the channel anymore. The channel will be locked to -100%, which is full deflection of the throttle servo to one of the sides of its travel. Turn the switch OFF, and the channel will be again controlled by the Thr stick.

MULTIPLY, this type of mix is a bit more complicated and I suggest you leave it for now, untill you understand what the other 2 types do, they are the most commonly used. But a multiply mix does exactly that, multiply the values. It is used for example to make the channel move just a percentage of the value of the mix or mixes above it.. But leave it for now.

Please try this. Don't fly with your radio until you understand this. This applies to every computerized system, not only OpenTX or ErskyTX..

Have fun

João

[Wingspinner]

No sure whether this was simply flame baiting but asuming its not....

I own 7+ different transmitters from several manufacturers from low end to high end. In general, the low end Futabas, Spektrum, etc. do not offer much flexibility with things like fixed channel assignments, mixing, etc. plus they tend to have cheesy and difficult to use human interfaces with cheap lcd displays. On the other hand, The high end Futabas such as the 18mz and other later models are truly great radios with great flexibility to move channel assignments around, fully custom mixes etc., etc. in addition they have polished and very easy to use GUIs and buttons plus touch screens. The list of features and capability goes on and on.They don’t have scripting though, the telemetry laves me wanting, and they have little/no capability to communicate with anything but a limitation number of Futaba receivers. The 14mz was the exception to the latter item however - but Futaba went completely proprietary with the 18mz. Worse yet, the 18mz cost more than 10x that of a jumper t16.

The major attraction of Opentx on a transmitter like the Jumper T16 (for instance) for me is the amazing flexibility it has to work with a large number of receiver brands, the low price, and the time proven ergonomics of much more expensive transmitters (it’s virtually an 18mz look a like) along with nearly all of the programming flexibility plus other capability the 18mz doesn’t have.

After spending a bit of time actually using Opentx and understanding the menu layout and the navigation flow I don’t find the transmitters that use it difficult to use at all. At least the ones I’ve played with and or own. It’s just different and yes it is much more “text oriented “ than graphic. Of course it would be great if it was more graphically oriented and also well integrated with a nice touch screen but i find it relatively easy to use and it offers expensive radio functionality and flexibility and then some for far less money.

My advice is to consider the price/capability and don’t waste time griping about the human interface and get to using and learning it. You’ll find that you’ll appreciate more and more how easy it really is to use once you become familiar with it.

[mmilan]

Jhsa, that is a great summary for how a beginner should approach any transmitter. It should be an introduction to any variation of OpenTx or Er9x family.

[jhsa]

Yeah, the open source firmware introduced a quite new way of doing things, where you have inputs and outputs, and you can connect them the way you want. Once you understand the concept the rest is easy.
So, understand the mixer, and you will never want to go back to closed systems.. It is powerful and intuitive once you understand it.

João

[tonnie78]

It's so complicated because it's so simple

[micka]

ok , fair point and i’m getting used to it slowly
BUT, if it’s SOOO easy , why so many forums and youtube videos on, fixing things, and nearly every forum has a large “why doesn’t this work “ section , more than any other radio i’ve ever known .
As i said i’m getting there with it , if i’d got a different radio i would have been flying instead of trying to work out how to mix brakes and ailerons (done now)
is there any reason they use different terminology to everyone else or is it just because they can ?.?
i asked for a step by step guide of how to go through and one to put fros back on, but nothing came forward.
It seems that if your not into computers or the language you can’t do it, a bit elitist, anyway back to setting up more plane , just hope don’t get more “emergency mode “ and black screen come up
thanks
mick

[jhsa]

ok , fair point and i’m getting used to it slowly
BUT, if it’s SOOO easy , why so many forums and youtube videos on, fixing things, and nearly every forum has a large “why doesn’t this work “ section , more than any other radio i’ve ever known .

Exactly because this is a different approach than the one used on other (more common) radios..

As i said i’m getting there with it , if i’d got a different radio i would have been flying instead of trying to work out how to mix brakes and ailerons (done now)

It is only difficult when you don't know how to work with it Exactly the same as any other system.

is there any reason they use different terminology to everyone else or is it just because they can ?.?

Different terminology is probably because with the open source firmware, being it openTX or ErskyTX, you can control features and do mixing that on other known systems are hidden and done in the background by the radio. That is why those other systems are so limited. The open Source firmware gives you also other tools to help your model do things that you have had never dreamed off. Tools like logical switches, Global variables, and Scalers (ErskyTX).
For example, on my gliders, and together with a vario, I managed to implement a kind of auto-throttle. When the glider reaches 100 meters, the motor stops automatically, then it glides down, when it reaches 20 meters, the motor starts automatically but slowly increasing power. I do not touch the throttle unless i want to turn the feature off.. Now try to do this with another system.. You simply don't And there are other examples. For example, use another radio's trim switches to control servos.. I bet that you can't I could give you plenty more examples.. But, with all these capabilities, of course you need some other terminology.
Even in the mixer, you can do lots of stuff you can't do with other radios.. For example, you have 3 types of mixes. Add, which is the normal type, Replace (replaces all mixes above it in the same channel), and multiply (does some scaling of the mixes above it).
As I said, all this allows you to take complete control of how your model is programmed, Other radios don't let you..

i asked for a step by step guide of how to go through and one to put fros back on, but nothing came forward.

Probably because no one really does that after they moved to an open source firmware. But I think Kilrah did answer your questions..

It seems that if your not into computers or the language you can’t do it, a bit elitist, anyway back to setting up more plane , just hope don’t get more “emergency mode “ and black screen come up
thanks

You do not need to be into computers, you need to learn. I don't use OpenTX myself, but I think there are a few good manuals out there.. Download them, read them, and learn..

João

[Kilrah]

BUT, if it’s SOOO easy , why so many forums and youtube videos on, fixing things, and nearly every forum has a large “why doesn’t this work “ section , more than any other radio i’ve ever known .

Because there is a very large number of users, and most of them are on their own and discussing things online unlike with most other systems where people would just get help from friends at the field.

[micka]

all good ans gents
although the motor coming on and off at certain levels , what ever happened to the joy of just controlling the plane during flight and honing your control skills ??
otherwise it just becomes a pre programmable plane etc and seems to take the joy out of it
- just my opinion
but as you all said am getting there, and as for just learn it and read it , there is not a lot out there
to explain things