Heli 450 Setup problem using er9x

[skyraider6]

Hello,
I am having a problem with spoolup on my HK450 GT Pro build, I was able to spoolup when I finished it and after getting into the radio's settings, I no longer can get it to spoolup. I deleted my original setup and used one from Groot that I found here, but I still have the same problem. Attached is the setup from my radio, maybe somebody can spot what I've done wrong.
In closing I am a noob to this hobby, first radio, first build, etc.


Edit by MOD the title

[kaos]

I am withdrawing what wrote. what is your Rx hook up? Looks like you may have duplicated some mix by accident to different ch.

[GrootWitbaas]

Ok I have posted this also on RCG before, but will answer here to see that we get this sorted ....

Ok just to make sure, you have the ESC connected to ch 3 right ? Remove the blades from the heli, and put your trottle on max, then power up the heli. What does the ESC do now. If it sounds normal, you have to reverse you trottle channel. I can do the change for you, but you need to 1st check if this is the case. Please also if possible, tell me exactly how every thing is connected example :
CH1 - Left front cyclic
CH2 - Right front Cyclic
CH3 - Main motor ESC
CH4 - Gyro (Servo)
CH5 - Gyro Gain (single wire most times)
CH6 - Rear Cyclic Servo

Lets work from there and see. Apologies for the delay in replying

Also one thing, but here I need to ask REAL RC Heli pilots, I think it is better to have a fast curve on the motor, soft start then fast up to 70% but I am not sure about this. In my head it makes sense, but I only flew 2 of my 5 450's for 10~20min each ....then got bitten by multirotor.

Groot

[kaos]

Groot, the soft start in heli usually is controlled by the ESC, Tx can hardly control a 'soft' start enough for heli. I usually have a throttle curve for heli at norm:
-100 30 60 80 100. in that eepe file(if it is from you) I see you did not use the heli set up menu at all, and put mixes in each ch. I am new to er9x. but will that do the job?
if your C3 is ID2 throttle curve, that motor won't start at all. and for c1, c2 the motor won't start until after mid stick. Am I missing something here? I am new to er9x, I know there is more than one way to do the same thing. but it is difficult to read/interpret that eepe file.
My mixes is sort of like this:

ch1: 100% cyc2
ch2: 100% cyc1
ch3: 100% THR ID0 c1
100% THR ID1 c2
100% THR ID2 c3
ch4: 100% RUD
ch5: 50% p3
+ 83% MAX !GEAR
+ -40% MAX GEA
ch6: 100% cyc3

Ch11: 75% THR ID0 c4
+75% THR ID1 c5
+75% THR ID2 c6

c1-3 are throttle curve c4-6 are pitch curves

c1 : -100 30 60 80 100, c2: 100 85 70 85 100 c3, 100 90 80 90 100
pitch curve c4-6 , I get it by pitch gauge to what pitch I want. somethigng like this:
c4: -3 5 13 56 100
c5: -100 -50 0 50 100
c6: -100 -50 0 50 100

heli swash is set at 120 , collective ch11 , swash ring 77 for mine.
I use ch1 for right ail servo , ch2 for elevator, ch3 for pirtch/left front servo. this is not critical.

[skyraider6]

Following your instructions the motor emits tones followed by intermittent beeps and then repeats, the cylic servos raise the swash plate.
Channel assignments viewed from the tail are as follows;
ch1= right front cyclic
ch2= left front cyclic
ch3= ESC
ch4= gyro
ch5= gyro gain
ch6= rear cyclic

[GrootWitbaas]

Edit: while I were typing this message you posted, so use the one below, use the channels like I have set them out. To test 1st, remove every thing but the ESC channel and test to see if it works like it should. Remember I have a TK switch programed. Be careful and remove the blades while testing.

The file above is not mine, but looks based on one I posted elsewhere. I should probably not have posted that one but rather this one.
The one attached here I use on my A109 Scale. (I do not fly a lot, but like to make sure every thing is setup correctly) There may be some settings in this file not right currently, but it is the way I have it saved. The settings in the TX itself may be slightly different. Note it is for mode 2 Throttle & Rud left

Channels are assigned like below
Ch1-3 Cyclic (If I remember correctly Ch1 Left Ch2 right Ch3 Rear)
Ch4 Rudder (Gyro->Servo)
Ch5 Throttle (ESC)
Ch6 Gyro Sensitivity/Gain
Ch7 Gear (you need gear on a Scale )
Ch8 Aux (used for Light's)

I have a 4Blade head on this one.

Groot

[skyraider6]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. I followed your channel assignments using the new eepe, the motor spooled up and throttle and rudder act correctly, right stick does not.
When I push the stick right, cyclics 1,2,3 no responce. Push stick left, left cyclic has no responce, right cyclic goes down, rear cyclic goes up.
Pull right stick back and left cyclic goes up, right cyclic goes down and rear cyclic goes down.
Push right stick forward cyclics 1,2,3 no responce.

[kaos]

Groot: that eepe file has the same result, the motor won't start until the throttle stick is above mid stick.
ARe you sure this is for a Trex 450?

"Ah, I forgot er9x throttle start from -100 to 100."

[GrootWitbaas]

My apologies, I have posted the wrong file with a curve that will never work. Please Re download the correct file above. I have removed the old file and replaced it with the correct one.
Now please note, you have to calibrate your ESC for your RX, again use care. TX on full throttle, blades removed, power RX/ESC, wait for beep, throttle to min. RX off, then all should work.
The reason I used C9 was to level my setup. you can have a -100 -50 0 0 0 +50 +100 on C9, meaning when at mid stick you will have a level swash, and you should have this also on min and max. When doing the swash leveling make SURE the ESC is disconnected from the motor.
I have now downloaded the file from my TX so yes I did fly with this. I am no expert on Heli, and also not on er9x, but I try my best.

@kaos,
I do not even attempt 3d flying. My motor spools up with throttle at 10% with a linear curve. I based all my setup on the guide here and what I see with my setup.

[kaos]

yep, I forgot the er9x throttle is from -100 to 100 instead of 0-100. that is my bad

but would you elaborate on your id1,id2 using c9 curve for throttle. when fully inverted and throttle stick at bottom, seems you have 0 throttle. you can't invert that heli because the throttle is less with more negative pitch. If my interpretation is right (like I said I am new to er9x too, but I have 6 450s set up with stock firmware)
while at id0 with just starting the throttle you will have full negative pitch (-12 degree?). at mid stick you will have 50% throttle and 0 pitch
May be you can help me understand.

I would say your c2(change 1st number to 100), c3 curve for your ch5 Id1,2 would be better. otherwise when in id1,2 from positive pitch to negative pitch at bottom stick you will have 0 throttle while flying inverted.
I don't know what you use for your c2-6 curve now.

ch11, the id0 curve may want to start at some where at -5 range. with your c9 curve, at id0 you have full negative pitch when 1st spinning up, that is a lot of negative pitch. at bottom stick at id0, normally you want a few negative degree pitch but not full negative of -10 or -12 degree.

[GrootWitbaas]

Ok so just to clear up the curves I have used and why.

I am a Noob, I did this based on what I needed from my setup. I only used ID0-3 for setup, not for flying. I do NOT fly inverted at all. this is a setup for me trying to get to grips with a 450 scale and fly-barless 4 blade head. I did the settings a long time ago (more than a year) and from memory I used ID1 with a 9point curve set at -100 -50 0 0 0 +50 +100 for getting my swash level at mid stick. After this I set it back to -100 to +100 linear. For some one starting out a 3d curve is very dangerous in my opinion.

[kaos]

I suggest you take a look at this:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachme ... id=3744820

[skyraider6]

Thanks Kaos,
I got your pm about that, I can't pm anyone yet and all my posts must be approved so it's kind of a pain and slows down the process, but I guess it is what it is.
I am now able to spool it up whoo hoo! unfortunately I, managed to strip the tail rotor gear a bit and it seems out of stock everywhere, got two housings (only way to get the gear) on backorder and got two TT assemblies on backorder as well, just in case I want to try something different.
Now it's just a waiting game and a chance to learn more about the radios setup in the process. I want to thank everyone for all their help and support.

[kaos]

I, managed to strip the tail rotor gear a bit and it seems out of stock everywhere, got two housings (only way to get the gear) on backorder and got two TT assemblies on backorder as well, just in case I want to try something different.

I suppose you mean tail drive gear in the boom block. yes, unfortunately that is the only way to get that gear by getting the whole block assembly.
Are you new to cp heli? if so, be careful. 450 is not a toy, it can hurt you, or anybody around it, seriously if you are not careful.
Make sure you have that throttle cut programmed correctly. Any time if you don't want to spin up the main blade, unplug your motor wire, so you won't accidentally spin up that rotor. Especially during setup with tx, unplug your motor wire from ESC. 'You really don't want to learn this by experience'
in your normal /ID0 pitch curve set it up at bottom stick to about -1 to -2 degree, about +1 or +2 at mid stick and max pitch of your set up at top stick. In ID1,2 use -100 -50 0 50 100 pitch curve. Use some expo(30) in the beginning to soften the stick sensitivity around the center.
use training gear, can save you a lot of repair time and money in the beginning.

if you have not flown a RC heli, get a 4 ch fp heli to fly 1st to get a feel while learning/building the 450. cp heli is 10 times harder to fly than the fp heli. It can get away from you , or get to you, really fast. At close to 3K rpm, that blade can cut through flesh like a Samuri sword.

By the way, you may want to fly with the belt drive for a while before you change to TT. belt drive can tolerate a lot better if you hit your tail rotor to the ground or grass than the TT. In TT, if that tail rotor hit anything, the drive gear /rotor gear will be damaged easily. save that TT until you don't hit your tail often any more.

Have fun with your build and flying.

[agusta600gt]

hey Groot...i saw that you have a A109 ...

take a look at mine hk600gt

[GrootWitbaas]

ABBC3_OFFTOPIC

Now I found the paint scheme I'll use for mine. I don't have skids, but retracts. Rest should be easy. It is still a work in progress ...
Once I am done I'll post a sort off build log on RCG and will link it somewhere here. (It can take some time thou)

As a Noob on Heli I followed the Guide from here, and so far have not crashed once. I did not truly flown for more than ~20min, but have some (Plenty) hours learning the basics.
I have found many other guides, and some are good, some not so good. What I liked about that page, it covers every thing from setting up all the way to flying. I spend more than 10 days on the 10 day guide (probably around 20 spread over time) and at some point I wanted to "progress" faster, but my advice is stick to the guide, don't rush. It takes time. The basics from this I now use also on the Multi rotor platform, and I am 100% sure it saved me lot's of money on rebuilds.

And finally like kaos said, be CAREFUL, a 450 can really hurt you. I have a few smaller ones like a 250, but to be honest, the 450 was (for me) easier to learn and get the hang of it.

Groot

[skyraider6]

I'm well aware of the dangers of spinning blades which is the reason they have not been mounted yet while I try to get things sorted out, even then I still have to beware of the flybar. As suggested when I don't want spool up the motor gets disconnected. I have a ways to go yet before I'll be ready to fly this one and am practicing on the sim as well. I thought I would like to do the build to get an understanding of it first, never had any ideas that I would just be able to slap it all together and get it airborne and be all that, this is a "got to learn to walk before you can run" kind of thing for me. Lot's of reading and listening for now. Many thanks for all the help and suggestions I have received .

[agusta600gt]

you dont want that on your forehead dont you

[skyraider6]

Augusta, that picture is exactly why I'm taking my time, I have no desire to be the subject of a forum story of what not to do.

[gohsthb]

I can tell by looking at that picture that one of the blade holder bolts came out during the flight. That has more to do with building the heli than flying it or setting up the radio. Always check the locktight!

For anyone else finding this thread:
There are heli setup guides on the google code page for er9x. You can find a good one here - http://er9x.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/do ... mplate.pdf

[erazz]

Hi Ghost, welcome!
Where didja go?

[wheelspinner20]

Thats what I said, very happy to see him back.

Pat