Big Problem with my 9xtreme radio.

[OctavioS]

There was this fix for the trim reboot problem, but still no forum official solution for the problem reported by João.

[MikeB]

Note that this same design (0.1uF cap directly across buttons/switches) is used on the Taranis, SKY board, 9XR and 9XR-PRO.
The main difference for the Taranis, SKY board and 9XR-PRO is they run on 3.3V, so there is less charge/voltage on the caps to start with.

From a measurement João made on the capacitor across his EXIT button, it was rather high, more like 0.125uF, so I think he was unlucky.
I had my 9Xtreme running with a M64 main board, with no problems showing up. I have, very recently, swapped this for a M128 board. I did manage to get a failure of the M128 board after a lot of frantic EXIT button pressing, but it was recovered almost instantly due to some code I now have running on the 9Xtreme that resets the M64/M128 board as soon as it detects a problem.

Mike.

[OctavioS]

We all knew you would come up with a solution.

[jhsa]

Well, at the moment no one else reported the same problem. On mine I really had to hit the exit key very fast. Sometimes it just happened while exiting a menu or loading another model.. As kilrah also said above, it might be just the processor on my 9x board that got crazy.
That is why I asked you guys to test. Just to make sure that yours are safe. If the capacitors can cause damage to the processor in the long run, I'm not 100% sure, the fact is that my board was doing that problem, and now after I've removed the capacitors it seems to be working fine, but still early to tell. No crashes because of the exit key so far. This board is over 6 years old and the processor might be there already for about 4 years.
My 9xtreme radio is a special case since day one. If there is something weird, my radio will do it. Maybe that is good for all of you as a solution may be found to solve the problems. Not very good for me as I can't use my radio for flying anything but paper planes
But I have other radios, no problem.

João

[120pilot]

Thanks Octavios for the link. That gives me a good place to start. Also I see there are processor upgrade options but I'm not sure they're relevant with the 9Xtreme addon board installed. I have reading to do. I'm not giving up on this radio just yet. So far it has worked flawlessly for me. I just added a 3 pos switch which thanks to this forum was almost too easy to do. It appears to work great so now I will head home and program my GPS position hold functions into INAV. I hope this radio keeps going for a long time. Modding it is just too much fun.

[jhsa]

Modding it is just too much fun.

Yep, tell me about it

João

[MikeB]

About the USB problem. It happened again. Radio crashed completely. Nothing worked, no control from the sticks, switches, keys, nothing at all.

If this happens again, please check what the PC says about USB devices.
Normally, if the firmware gets "stuck", then the watchdog will reboot the radio, all the normal throttle and switch warning tests will be skipped, and aircraft control will be re-established as quickly as possible.
HOWEVER, if you are using the USB to control the SIM, there is a problem. On reset, the hardware detects the USB is connected and causes the processor to start in STM bootloader mode, while the M64/M128 won't change, leaving the display stuck where it was.
So, have a look on the PC to see if you now have a STM bootloader device instead of the joystick device.
If this is what has happened, then I may need to see if the USB joystick code is holding off the watchdog (STM supplied firmware), although this would not be a problem that would happen when using the radio to fly an aircraft.

Mike.

[jhsa]

Thanks Mike, those are good news. Will do after lunch. Thanks again for looking into it.

To all, if you ever have the same reset problem I had, and decide to remove the caps (which I think you should anyway), there is no need to remove the analog pins's caps. Leave them there.. they actually help smoothing the gimbas's signals. Just remove the same ones I did on my board. Picture above. Will add it to my 9xtreme installation thread.

João

[jhsa]

So, have a look on the PC to see if you now have a STM bootloader device instead of the joystick device.
If this is what has happened, then I may need to see if the USB joystick code is holding off the watchdog (STM supplied firmware), although this would not be a problem that would happen when using the radio to fly an aircraft.

Mike.

Mike, this is exactly what is happening.. The radio is going into STM Bootloader.
It looks like if I move the connector a bit it creates some bad connections. That might also explain some other problems I have seen.. i'm afraid this connector is not up to the job Will have to check that before it causes more problems.. I'm really not lucky with this radio, am I? Really wanted to make it my main radio.. That won't happen I'm afraid


The question is, why is the radio rebooting if there is a bad connection on the USB connector??
Just as a side note, It just made my computer crash.. No response from mouse or keyboard, nothing.. had to hard reboot it..

João

[lancaster]

Thanks Octavios for the link. That gives me a good place to start. Also I see there are processor upgrade options but I'm not sure they're relevant with the 9Xtreme addon board installed. I have reading to do. I'm not giving up on this radio just yet. So far it has worked flawlessly for me. I just added a 3 pos switch which thanks to this forum was almost too easy to do. It appears to work great so now I will head home and program my GPS position hold functions into INAV. I hope this radio keeps going for a long time. Modding it is just too much fun.

I totally agree with 120pilot

My two 9Xs have been totally reliable and its been great fun modifying them - thanks to Smartieparts/Steven, Joao, Mike and the guys on the forum.

I see Mike has developed code that can reset the processor if problems with voltage spikes occur - is that something that could be available to all users?

Also if this is a problem that can develop over time, is there a way to detect the onset of the problem before it results in total failure of the radio?

Good luck Joao with your radio fix

regards
Hans

[MikeB]

The resetting code will be included in releases, and there is a count of how many resets have occured. This count is displayed on a "Debug" menu.

Mike.

[OctavioS]

I tried again to replicate the error, but nothing wrong happened.

[OctavioS]

Thanks Octavios for the link. That gives me a good place to start. Also I see there are processor upgrade options but I'm not sure they're relevant with the 9Xtreme addon board installed. I have reading to do. I'm not giving up on this radio just yet. So far it has worked flawlessly for me. I just added a 3 pos switch which thanks to this forum was almost too easy to do. It appears to work great so now I will head home and program my GPS position hold functions into INAV. I hope this radio keeps going for a long time. Modding it is just too much fun.

I totally agree with 120pilot

My two 9Xs have been totally reliable and its been great fun modifying them - thanks to Smartieparts/Steven, Joao, Mike and the guys on the forum.

I see Mike has developed code that can reset the processor if problems with voltage spikes occur - is that something that could be available to all users?

Also if this is a problem that can develop over time, is there a way to detect the onset of the problem before it results in total failure of the radio?

Good luck Joao with your radio fix

regards
Hans

I really hope you are right and this problem only occurs in some radios. As I said I have 3 of them and would like keep them.

[jhsa]

Maybe it was only my board, but it is good that you guys are also testing it, to make sure all is ok.
If something funny has to happen, for sure it will happen to my radio first

João

[s_mack]

We do have to recognize that these problems are occuring on the most modded, reworked, tested, experimented, damaged/repaired 9X in existence

[edit] I stand corrected

[jhsa]

Most modded, probably. Reworked and specially tested/experimented, no doubt about it as it makes it safer for all the others
Damaged? Negative, never burnt any of my boards..... yet Not even the 9XT which I think is the most sensitive of all of them..
One mod that I really recommend on the 9XT is the PPM mod. Solder a 100 ohm resistor on the PPM line.
Another mod that should be done is the Diode on the switch board, described in several places of this forum..
My 9XT radio will receive the same Safe switch circuit I have running on my Ar9x and skyboard radios. It will keep the radio ON even if the power switch fails..
Recently my 9XR PRO developed a bad power switch syndrome. Good it was a home when it happened. With my little circuit that wouldn't be a problem when flying. Will post it on the forum when finished.
I'm also working on a version for the stock 9x, which includes reverse polarity protection

João

[lancaster]

The resetting code will be included in releases, and there is a count of how many resets have occured. This count is displayed on a "Debug" menu.

Mike.

Thanks Mike - thats good to know

Remind me how we get into the 'Debug' menu

regards
Hans

[MikeB]

LONG UP takes you to various status/statistic menus. As you keep pressing RIGHT through them you will get to the debug menu. I've got several menus there to help with diagnostics for when things are not quite right.

Mike.

[OctavioS]

I purchased two more 9x boards from hobbyking and what a surprise looking at the chip. Now the question is: is it the m64, 128?

These must be the knockoff chips Kilrah talked about.

[bob195558]

Hi OctavioS,
Here is a photo of a t9x which was purchased Sept 11, 2015 with the 128A chip.

Hobby King T9x with 128A chip received Sept 11, 2015

You may want to consider the Horizontal Trims to Digital Ground Fix Mod to ensure your radio will not
reboot when flying: (viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3594&hilit=the+ana ... 120#p69475).
Also there is the 5 voltage regulator mod too: (viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3594&p=69475#p69475).

Here is some old info quotes from: "Re: HobbyKing now offers 9x mainboards and LCDs as spare parts !": (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6997)
about probable cause/s with the problems of rebooting with the Horiz Trims.

For the '128 chip, it is worth knowing whether the chip is actually a 128 or a 128A, and whether reboots happen.
The '128A is a lower current (about half) version of the '128. Mike.

warning people that if they had a 9x with m64 that worked perfectly fine and replace their board with the new one they might suffer reboots!
And fixing the trim boards was one possible solution given the 9x mainboard as it was, but there would be ways to fix it on the mainboard as well that could have been incorportated in a redesign.

The voltage spikes that are caused by the bad design are exactly the kind of things that cause unpredictable behavior based on component tolerances. A cap that has a capacitance at the lower end of the usual +/-20% tolerance can cause a larger spike than one that's on the top end of it, a production batch of microcontrollers might be more sensitive to that kind of misuse than another etc...

Also see here for 2561 Chip Upgrade Mod: (viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3819&p=74105#p74046) and
here (viewtopic.php?f=99&t=5553&p=79106&hilit ... ade#p79106).

Bob B.

[OctavioS]

I have 5 atmega 2560 chips and i am seriously considering replacing the ones from the board.

[s_mack]

I purchased two more 9x boards from hobbyking and what a surprise looking at the chip. Now the question is: is it the m64, 128?
20160825_141018.jpg

Can you scratch that yellow blob off so we can see the full model number? I wonder what that chip is.

[bob195558]

Zoom in on pic and you can read it.

9x knockoff chip

GREEN D0
ED040502-H16D
1102
11 05 17

Whatever it all means ? (http://www.o2xygen.com/parts/ED040502H16D.htm) or (http://www.brokerforum.com/components-p ... -eR-en.jsa).

Bob B.

[s_mack]

Beats me. I searched through all my suppliers and no positive hits. I've sent out a few emails to Chinese distributors.

That part number does get a hit for Lattice Semi, which makes custom FPGA chips but I can't imagine a cheap product like this would go FPGA.

Weird.

[Kilrah]

Someone found this company as being the possible manufacturer:
http://www.lgt-semi.com/?lang=en

But obviously they aren't referencing the clone in their product line.
Could be a custom job from "someone" who asked them to produce them, and as such is a customer-specific reference and part they wouldn't be talking about.

[jhsa]

Well, whatever it is should be Atmel compatible, right? To find out one could just READ the fuses for example. Like this you could also find if it is a 64, a 128, or whatever else
If it is compatible, the chip ID should also match?

João

[jhsa]

And Octávio, do you have the Atmega 2560 or the 2561? Because the latter is the one we use on the 9x mainboard.

João

[Kilrah]

Well, whatever it is should be Atmel compatible, right?
If it is compatible, the chip ID should also match?

Maybe, no guarantees. If they went for a custom part and given that their goal is likely to save money they could also have gone with an OTP or mask rom part that is not reprogrammable. Someone indeed has to "sacrifice" one and try things.

[jhsa]

Yeah, I would do it as I have still a couple chips here in case things went wrong But I don't have a board and I don't think at this stage I would waste my money on one. I still have a couple repaired 9x mainboards in case I need one.

João

[Kilrah]

Catching up and I missed that someone already had a look:
https://github.com/opentx/opentx/issues/3694

It looks like the ID is that of the m128 but that existing m128 firmware does not run reliably.