9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

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jhsa
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Yes it is if you are into RC..Sooner or later you will have to solder something..

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by Daedalus66 »

I just taught my 10-year old grandson to solder. He put together a Christmas tree with about 20 flashing LEDs and it worked first time. The whole process from total beginner to finished project took about two hours.

He thought it was great fun and asked for a soldering iron for Christmas. I thoroughly recommend learning to solder for anyone!


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OctavioS
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by OctavioS »

No better way to start. Grampa passing knowledge to grandson. Unfortunately I'm the first in my family to join the rc world. What i have learned so far is thanks to community forums and youtube, and believe me, I'm reading a lot to try to keep up, but will never know the "old school" knowledge a lot of you have. My 10 year old daughter has some interest, let's see what the future reserves. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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jhsa
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

OctavioS wrote: but will never know the "old school" knowledge a lot of you have.
Of course you will ;) Just stick with the old guys. We are very happy to pass the old style knowledge that we have learnt on our clubs from some other older guys. Unfortunately, this is something that got lost as soon as all this RC equipment became easily available to everybody. People don't search the clubs anymore and rely on information that they search/find online. The problem with this is that there is very important information, specially about safety, that never gets to the people. This is something that must be taught from person to person. The people that just started have no idea that the models can be dangerous if mishandled.
The safety rules must be learnt at the field. There are many basic rules that are very important and you just don't learn them online. For example, never point a spinning or even armed propeller to anyone. Always ajust your IC engine's needle from behind, never from the front. I have seen quite a few guys with really bad cut fingers and arms.. Electric models are even more dangerous because you don't even see it coming when something goes wrong..
Flying a model is not just buying it and fly. There is a lot of knowledge to be learnt, even before you turn the radio ON for the first time. And most of this knowledge you don't find on the internet..

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by mcometa »

I knew this was possible! I have the 9XT + TH9x and was able to fly with Freerider and Liftoff. But I have a problem with stick's sensitivity. How do i minimize it specially with the throttle. I have tried adjusting the Expo/DR but it seems that it's not what I want.

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by Paulusdw »

MikeB wrote:Paulusdw: I'm confused here. That test version is for the AR9X board (SKY type). This thread is for using the 9Xtreme. SKY type boards don't support the USB as a direct joystick connection, which is what this thread is about.

Mike.
I have no idea what I am doing - I don't know what a Sky type is - I saw a thread about trying to get my 9Xtreme to work with Freerider.

I am sorry for getting you involved - you have lots to do without dealing with an idiot like me.

I will keep quiet and not use Freerider - I quite like Liftoff anyway.

Paul
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Aren't there any sensitivity settings on the program itself?

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by MikeB »

Paulusdw wrote:I have no idea what I am doing - I don't know what a Sky type is - I saw a thread about trying to get my 9Xtreme to work with Freerider.

I am sorry for getting you involved - you have lots to do without dealing with an idiot like me.

I will keep quiet and not use Freerider - I quite like Liftoff anyway.
You referred to using, I think, this: ersky9x_rom_A8_10.zip. This is not a version of ersky9x for the 9Xtreme board, but for a different board for the 9X called an AR9X.

You also mention a USB adapter.
If you have a 9Xtreme, and have a recent test version of the firmware, then it supports direct USB connection. Start the radio normally, then connect the USB cable. The radio should appear as a USB joystick on the PC.
I downloaded the demo version of Freerider and it works with that. I've never tested it with Liftoff.

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by mcometa »

jhsa wrote:Aren't there any sensitivity settings on the program itself?

João
in liftoff there's no way to adjust the sensitivity, never looked in freerider, i thought the sensitivity can be adjusted in my Tx. Here, look at my throttle up by just ~1mm and it's already at 71%. How can my THR be more 1:1?

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Try this, go to Radio Setup/Calibrate. Follow the instructions to calibrate sticks and pots..

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by mcometa »

jhsa wrote:Try this, go to Radio Setup/Calibrate. Follow the instructions to calibrate sticks and pots..

João
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! OMG. Definitely 1:1 feel! This should be added in the documentation or I just didn't pay attention or just too noob that once you have your tx, you should calibrate it before anything else.

Thanks again~
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jhsa
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Yes, that is the first thing to do even before you program any model.. ;)

Good that is working now.. Well done..

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by MikeB »

I could add something to the firmware to indicate calibration hasn't been done, but this won't help existing boards with the existing firmware. If I add it, then anyone who upgrades will get a calibration warning at start up and need to repeat their calibration.
One thing it would catch is someone flashing the EEPROM from eepskye with 'blank' radio settings. On next starting the radio, they will get a calibration warning.

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by Daedalus66 »

One really useful diagnostic technique is this:
Whenever something doesn't operate as expected, go to the graphic output main screen (the one with the bars) and see what happens when you move the controls. This tells you what signals the transmitter is generating (as opposed to what's happening to them at the receiving end).

In this case, looking at the screen would have immediately shown that the problem was in the transmitter, as throttle movement would be screwy.

This trick applies to just about any programmable transmitter, as almost all have a "monitor" screen.


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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Yeah, that's the point of having the main screen showing the sticks. If the sticks are i tbe middle but the dot isn't, then calibration needs to be done.

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Mike I think it is a good idea.. Every little help is very welcome..
This is in the er9x manual and it will be in the new ersky9x manual as well. The problem is that not everybody reads it, unfortunately..

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by mcometa »

I did check the graphical ones and it's really hyper sensitive. I did ask around in the Facebook groups that I joined and none of them seem to figure out. Where else to look for answers than here right? Hehehe I'm going to stick with ersky9x and be my first tx firmware of choice. Will not move away from it now. Some terms can be a little bit foreign to me as I've just started a new hobby but I can always google for answers.

Thank you guys! You are awesome.
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

As it seems you are using the 9Xtreme board, I don't think there is another firmware for it yet ;) So you will have to stick with ersky9x anyway :P :mrgreen:

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by OctavioS »

jhsa wrote:Aren't there any sensitivity settings on the program itself?

João
In freerider you have to adjust all channels weight and offset to 50. Any fine tuning has to be set in the tx.
Last edited by OctavioS on Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

In freerider all channels must range between 0% and 100%, so

CH1 50% Rud 50% Offset.

Do the same for all channels, including throttle, before you calibrate the game..
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by duststorm »

I was successful in using the 9Xtreme USB joystick feature with FPV Freerider on Linux. It simply worked, just follow the calibration steps, and done.
I did this with a very simple mixer setting, basically adding the 4 stick channels, all other settings pretty much default.

Now I tried using it on Windows as well, to give Liftoff a try (unfortunately they do not have a linux version yet, I can't wait...).
I'm having some issues, though. While the Windows joystick properties seem to show the axis movement as I would expect it, when I try to calibrate and assign axis in Liftoff everything jitters around and really only one axis, the pitch, seems to do anything.
I hope I get this sorted out.


It looks like I got a little closer to figuring this out: It seems to behave pretty well if all sticks stay above their center points, in the positive direction of the axis. If I go under any of the axes, things start to misbehave and the inputs jitter around erratically. They jitter around in such a way that it is impossible to use the automated axis selection, where you move the right stick and press a button, because the jitter throws it off and makes it select another axis. To fix the problem, I effectively need to push all my sticks a bit past the center mark, in the positive direction, as leaving them at center position can cause them to vary between 0, slightly larger than zero, but also slightly lower than zero, causing the jitter problem again.
It's as if it sees the axis movement below the center mark as an entirely different input, but one that throws everything else off. This could be related to Liftoff (or more generally the Unity engine's joystick handling on Windows) as Windows' joystick properties seem to show correct movement.

Does anybody else have experience with Liftoff on Windows?
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Try configuring all four control mixes that they output from 0 to 100 and not -100 to 100.
Like this:
CH1 50% Rud Offset 50%

Do the same to the other channels.. I think you will be able to calibrate now ;)

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by drkavnger99 »

Frustrated at this point. I cannot get yaw to work in freerider or liftoff. When I calibrate yaw doesn't move unless I goto the extreme's and then it just jumps all the way to the end. I've tried calibrating the tx, set the 50/50 settings on the channels and calibrated in windows. I am running windows 7 and windows 10 both show same issue. It does work though the trainer jack and the smartpropoplus just fine just can't get it to work over USB. Running the last firmware released in December. Want to get away from the trainer jack as it's not very accurate and noisy. Posted earlier but got no responses I included a video to demonstrate it as well.
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by OctavioS »

Have you tried any other rc sim through the trainer jack. If so, everything went OK?

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by duststorm »

jhsa wrote:Try configuring all four control mixes that they output from 0 to 100 and not -100 to 100.
Like this:
CH1 50% Rud Offset 50%
That worked all right! :)

I changed the output settings for the channels on the remote (made a separate model preset for it) to crop between 0 and 100
I then recalibrated the controller in Windows game controller settings first.

Then I calibrated in Liftoff.
I still had to fiddle around to get through the axis assignment though. It appears that it was always picking my roll axis, no matter what stick I moved. It must have always been >0 and the preferred axis, or its outputs somehow scaled a lot higher as the others.
To get around this, I kept my roll stick about 25% to the left, and then moved the stick I really wanted assigned.
That way I managed to assign all axes to the proper channel in Liftoff.

Also I noticed that my pitch, if pulled back completely clipped around and made pitch 100%
I have no idea why, this might be caused because of a wrong calibration somewhere or yet another quirk in Liftoff.
To get around this quickly, I scaled the pitch output down from 50 to 48 on the remote (without doing any recalibration), which keeps the pitch just under its minimum value, masking this issue.

A bit tedious, and perhaps a bit of a hack, but it worked. Now I can use Liftoff with the USB controller feature. ;)
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

Great. I also had the same problems as you. I was lucky to find some internet page that explained how to setup the taranis radio for it.. Converting to my ersky9x radios was easy.. :)
it's really weird that liftoff uses only a 1,5 to 2 millisecond range.. :o I'm sure there might be a very good reason for that.

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by Kilrah »

Must be a bug in the Unity game engine it's built with, given all other games I know of that use it have the same problem.
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by duststorm »

FPV Freerider is also built with Unity, but in fact I find its calibration routine very robust.

I also just found out that you can change Liftoff's controller settings manually in a text file, if you're having trouble doing it via the GUI.
Edit the file C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Liftoff\Liftoff_Data\Config\Player.xml with a text editor.
You'll find something like the following in there, which you can modify by hand:

Code: Select all

<InputSettings>
      <inputSettingsName>Input Settings</inputSettingsName>
      <axisThrottle>Joy1Axis3</axisThrottle>
      <axisPitch>Joy1Axis2</axisPitch>
      <axisRoll>Joy1Axis4</axisRoll>
      <axisYaw>Joy1Axis1</axisYaw>
      <invertThrottle>true</invertThrottle>
      <invertPitch>false</invertPitch>
      <invertRoll>true</invertRoll>
      <invertYaw>false</invertYaw>
      <deadBandPitch>0.0178571325</deadBandPitch>
      <deadBandRoll>0.02</deadBandRoll>
      <deadBandYaw>0.02</deadBandYaw>
      <calibrationSettingsThrottle>
        <center>-0.007874016</center>
        <min>-1</min>
        <max>1</max>
      </calibrationSettingsThrottle>
      <calibrationSettingsPitch>
        <center>-0.007874016</center>
        <min>-1</min>
        <max>1</max>
      </calibrationSettingsPitch>
      <calibrationSettingsRoll>
        <center>-0.007874016</center>
        <min>-1</min>
        <max>1</max>
      </calibrationSettingsRoll>
      <calibrationSettingsYaw>
        <center>-0.007874016</center>
        <min>-1</min>
        <max>1</max>
      </calibrationSettingsYaw>
      <axisThrottleExp>1</axisThrottleExp>
      <axisPitchExp>1.3</axisPitchExp>
      <axisRollExp>1.3</axisRollExp>
      <axisYawExp>1</axisYawExp>
      <axisDeadBand>0.15</axisDeadBand>
      <axisHorizontal>None</axisHorizontal>
      <axisVertical>None</axisVertical>
      <axisLookHorizontal>None</axisLookHorizontal>
      <axisLookVertical>None</axisLookVertical>
      <invertHorizontal>false</invertHorizontal>
      <invertVertical>false</invertVertical>
      <invertLookHorizontal>false</invertLookHorizontal>
      <invertLookVertical>false</invertLookVertical>
      <keyUp>UpArrow</keyUp>
      <keyUp2>W</keyUp2>
      <keyDown>DownArrow</keyDown>
      <keyDown2>S</keyDown2>
      <keyLeft>LeftArrow</keyLeft>
      <keyLeft2>A</keyLeft2>
      <keyRight>RightArrow</keyRight>
      <keyRight2>D</keyRight2>
      <keySelect>Return</keySelect>
      <keySelect2>Return</keySelect2>
      <keyCancel>Backspace</keyCancel>
      <keyCancel2>Backspace</keyCancel2>
      <keyEditorPlace>Mouse0</keyEditorPlace>
      <keyEditorPlace2>JoystickButton2</keyEditorPlace2>
      <keyEditorPrevious>E</keyEditorPrevious>
      <keyEditorPrevious2>JoystickButton4</keyEditorPrevious2>
      <keyEditorNext>R</keyEditorNext>
      <keyEditorNext2>JoystickButton5</keyEditorNext2>
      <keyEditorRotateLeft>O</keyEditorRotateLeft>
      <keyEditorRotateLeft2>Comma</keyEditorRotateLeft2>
      <keyEditorRotateRight>P</keyEditorRotateRight>
      <keyEditorRotateRight2>Period</keyEditorRotateRight2>
      <keyEditorRemove>Mouse1</keyEditorRemove>
      <keyEditorRemove2>X</keyEditorRemove2>
      <keyEditorJump>Space</keyEditorJump>
      <keyEditorJump2>JoystickButton2</keyEditorJump2>
      <keyPause>Escape</keyPause>
      <keyPause2>Escape</keyPause2>
      <keyReset>R</keyReset>
      <keyReset2>R</keyReset2>
      <keyAcroToggle>A</keyAcroToggle>
      <keyAcroToggle2>A</keyAcroToggle2>
      <keyFPVNoiseToggle>C</keyFPVNoiseToggle>
      <keyFPVNoiseToggle2>C</keyFPVNoiseToggle2>
    </InputSettings>

By the way, there's also a hidden feature here where you can change your camera to third person view ;)
Modify the line that says

Code: Select all

<firstPerson>true</firstPerson>
to

Code: Select all

<firstPerson>false</firstPerson>
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jhsa
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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by jhsa »

duststorm wrote:FPV Freerider is also built with Unity, but in fact I find its calibration routine very robust.
Allow me to disagree ;)
Only the fact that is uses 1.5ms to 2ms for each channel means a very bad implementation that goes against what most RC systems use.. So the user has to do big programming on their radios to be able to calibrate their tx.. Terrible.
Calibration is not easy as well..
It's a bit like they wanted to make our life difficult on purpose.. :D

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Re: 9XTREME W/Freerider or Liftoff

Post by Kilrah »

Again it's likely something they don't have control over.

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