Probably a FBKC fault

ersky9xr is the port of the er9x firmware to the 9XRPRO radio.
nollox
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Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:24 pm

For those who haven't come across it, FBKC = Fault Between Keyboard and Chair. It looks to me like a fault on my radio (Turnigy 9xr Pro), but it will probably turn out to be me. It usually does.

firmware : ersky9x-r212

The problem was first encountered when changing RUD settings and using the rudder stick. I went to P2 in case it was something to do with the joystick, so please don't get the impression that this issue is in any way related to P2. P2 just happens to be what I used for this investigation.

Chan 2 settings : Source P2, Weight +50, Offset +50, Fix offset ON, FlModetrim OFF, Trim ON
Chan 4 Settings : Source P2, Weight +50, Offset -50, Fix offset ON, FlModetrim OFF, Trim ON

The two are identical except for a negative offset on Ch 4.
All other channels have been deleted.

When I turn P2, ch 2 behaves as expected, sweeping from 0 to 100. Ch 4 is always +100 or -100.
Looking at the numerical display, the results are

Code: Select all

Ch 2 :   -0.1   20     40     60     80     99.6   99.8   99.9
Ch 4 :  100.1  100.1  100.1  100.1  100.1  100.1  100.1 -100.2
Ch 2 shows the smooth sweep of the pot, but ch4 shows 100% (positive) for all of the sweep, then it goes to -100% (negative) for pot full right.
If Fix Offset is set OFF on ch4, the results are not what I want, but more sensible. Both channels show continuous movement of the pot....

Code: Select all

Ch 2 :   -0.1    20     40     60    80     100
Ch 4 :  -75.0   -55.2  -34.8  -14.9  +5.2    25.0
Joao suggested (on YouTube comments) that I should program a completely new model and try it there. I did, and programmed Ch 2 and Ch 4 the same, both with Fix Offset ON. No other channels were programmed. The results are identical.

I have tried playing with the negative offset, and there again, the results are the same on both models. Setting the Offset to -1, Fix Offset ON, gives

Code: Select all

Ch 2 :   -0.1   20     40     50     50.9    51.0    60      80     100
Ch 4 :  100.1  100.1  100.1  100.1  100.1  -100.2  -100.2  -100.2  -100.2
So in this case, Ch 4 swings from one extreme to the other when the pot is centred. Setting Ch 4 Offset -1, Fix Offset OFF gives ...

Code: Select all

Ch 2 :   -0.1    20     40     60      80     100
Ch 4 :  -50.5   -30.3  -10.4  +9.6    +29.6   +49.5
Can somebody point out the error of my ways? Is there a switch somewhere that is set to !switch, that could affect it?
Beautiful pots, by the way. Very smooth. They have the feel of real quality.


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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by jhsa » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:48 pm

Hi, good to see you here. :) ;) Welcome to OpenRCforums :)

If you don't have anything else programmed on those mixes, it looks like there might be a bug on that version of the firmware, and it was solved in later versions.
I think a couple of us still hold a copy of that version.
Nigel, do you still have a copy of r212? If so, could you install it and check the fix offset? Or send me the binary and I could test?

Thanks

João
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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:12 pm

Thanks Joao, it had occurred to me that it could be a bad load, so reloading the same version could do the trick - not that I'm averse to loading the latest and greatest! I'm still getting to grips with eepskye, but once I figure it out, I'll upgrade.

Is there a historical list of versions somewhere, with information about the changes in each version? I looked for one, but didn't find it - but I wanted to see if a problem like this had been addressed in some version since Feb 2015.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by MikeB » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:51 pm

erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:07 pm

Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for, but I don't see any hint there of my problem having been fixed.
Eepskye is working now, but I can't connect my radio to the PC. When I connect the USB and turn the Tx on, it comes up in boot mode, but says only "Connecting" The PC makes a noise like something was connected, then disconnected. If I try to access the Tx data, I just get a warning "Tx disk not mounted"
I ran the Devices troubleshooter, and it said "USB Mass storage device has a driver problem", but the troubleshooter software was unable to fix it.
I have tried to download the driver, but the download keeps failing. Its URL is half a page long, so I won't paste it here, but it's from
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=8638&p=113306&hili ... er#p113306, a bit less than half way down the page.

In the middle of all that, my Internet connection went down and after messing around with the router for a while, I had to call my ISP to reset the line. All in all, I'm having a frustrating time. Where do I go from here?


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jhsa
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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by jhsa » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:41 pm

You don't need to install any driver..
What operating system do you use? Windows? Linux?
Turn your radio ON while holding both horizontal trims inwards. This will start the radio in bootloader mode. the connect the USB cable between the PC and radio.. 2 drives should appear on your computer, one is the SD Card and the other is a drive with a copy of the eeprom and firmware. Please leave this one alone. Do they show up?

João


EDIT: on this playlist there are a couple videos about eepskye that might help you

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qcuIqJXhb9
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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:31 pm

It never gets to say "connected" just "connecting". But it really is connected.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:13 pm

OS = Win7
When I look in Device Manager, I see "Unknown Device" and when I double-click it, it says "No drivers are installed for this device."
Sometimes (but not every time) when I connect the USB cable, it gives an error bubble saying "USB device not recognised"
The Device Troubleshooter gives
TroubleShooter err.jpg
Last edited by nollox on Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:19 pm

jhsa wrote:Hi, good to see you here. :) ;) Welcome to OpenRCforums :)

If you don't have anything else programmed on those mixes, it looks like there might be a bug on that version of the firmware, and it was solved in later versions.
I think a couple of us still hold a copy of that version.
Nigel, do you still have a copy of r212? If so, could you install it and check the fix offset? Or send me the binary and I could test?

Thanks

João
Hi João

I have a 9XR Pro with R204, R212 and R218 on the SD card and have tried the exercise on all three firmware versions. (R204 was the stock version on the Pro till about mid-2015, then they started shipping with their own version called R212. R218 is the current "release" version from Mike.)

I can verify that both R204 and R212 produce the weird behavior described above. R218, however, behaves correctly.

Nigel

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:32 pm

Thanks a lot for that, Nigel - that, at least, gives me a solid explanation for what I'm seeing. All I need now is to sort out how to make the radio talk to my PC, but I'm not having much success with that at the moment.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:35 pm

Nigel, if you have a box with 212 firmware available, could you possibly check to see what it does when you connect it to a PC?
I think I read somewhere that up to a certain FW level, a driver had to be loaded (and manually installed). Maybe 212 was before that level?

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Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:38 pm

Flashed it with all three versions and it connected normally in all cases.

Just to be sure, here's how I do it.

1. Hold horizontal trims together while turning on. That goes to the boot loader and shows the firmware files on the SD card.

2. Plug in USB cable. That brings up "connecting" on screen. (Be sure to plug in firmly, till it clicks.)

3. Computer (win10 now but win7 previously) shows two drives. One is the transmitter, called ersky_9x, and the other is the SD card called whatever you called it (mine is ersky1).

You might want to try taking the SD card out just in case it's a problem.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by jhsa » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:58 pm

Sometimes when the radio is new the USB connector doesn't go fully in. You must push it a bit more and make sure it is fully inserted.. That happens with many 9XR-PRO radios..

João
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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:11 pm

Thanks Joao, I already discovered that, but I assure you, the connector is properly in. Actually, I had a bit of difficulty getting it out afterwards. The PC does its usual "gee-dunk" showing that something has been plugged in (and after a few seconds does the opposite gee-dunk to show it has been unplugged - even though it hasn't), but at no time does a volume appear on Windows Explorer, and there is often a message to say that the USB device has not been recognised - which in itself indicates that the PC knows something is there - it just doesn't know what. The other indication is that if I plug the cable in and power on the transmitter, it comes up in boot mode, so it is also aware that the USB is plugged in.
I believe it needs a driver, but I haven't been able to find one. Perhaps if Nigel has the time to connect his xr212 box to a PC, he will find that it gives the same issue.

You know, I want to be a part of this community, so I'm prepared to do what I can to resolve the problem - especially as I have had such willing and capable support today, but all the same, I'm a bit miffed that HobbyKing sent me a brand new box with firmware from Feb 2015 when a newer, stable level is available. It would be good if they also wanted to be part of the active community.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:17 pm

Oh, Sorry - I just understood Nigel's update "Flashed it with all three versions and it connected normally in all cases."

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by jhsa » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:20 pm

I expect Nigel's radio to connect without problems.
What happens if you turn the radio ON first and then connect it to the PC?
Also, do you have another USB cable you can try?
You shouldn't need any driver. I have never installed a driver for my radio.
I believe HK just picked up a version from ersky9x, didn't test it properly, and just flashes it to the radios at the factory. I don't think they follow the firmware development. This is open source so it is always being developed with new cool features and hardware support that you will probably find out soon..
But lets get it working first ;) :)

João
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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:46 pm

No driver needed.

Try different USB cables and ports.

The version HK puts on the Pro now is not apparently one Mike provided for the purpose. It's an interim version with a hybrid and confusing menu structure that doesn't match either of the available manuals. If they had waited a month or two and discussed with Mike, the radios would have R214 with the fully mature menu structure.

The version to go for now is R218, available as the latest release version at www.er9x.com. I would strongly advise anyone with ErSky9x to upgrade ASAP and learn the mature and logical menu structure that is already in the Er9x manual and is the foundation for the new ErSky9x Guide (soon!).

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by MikeB » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:08 pm

Three questions.
1. Are you using a USB 3 port on your computer?
2. What is the capacity of the SD card you are using?
3. What is the bootloader version you have?

Mike.
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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:58 am

Thanks for your interest, Mike,
My PC has 3 x USB 3 and 1 x USB 2. I have tried one of the USB3 ports and the USB2.
I hold both horizontal trims towards the centre and power on. The radio comes up in boot mode and says "Boot Loader V1.3Ready
ersky9xr_rom_r212.bin

I plug a known good USB cable (used daily for other purposes) into the radio and the PC - in this case, the USB3 port, though I have tested and both give the same result. A speech bubble pointing into the System Tray, saying "USB device not recognised. One of the USB devices attached to this computer has malfunctioned and Windows does not recognise it. For assistance solving the problem, click this message." When I click the message, a new frame pops up saying (in bold) "Unknown USB device" and "Try reconnecting the device. If Windows still does not recognize it, replace the device"
Double-clicking or right-clicking the "Unknown USB device" has no effect.

When I plug my MP3 player into the same port to load my daily podcasts, it shows two drives, and I can read/write both of them. I have also checked with a thumb drive, which works normally.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:11 pm

I've just seen a frame I hadn't seen before. If I look in my system tray, I see the icon at the extreme bottom left with a red cross on it. If I click it, it brings up the frame above. Does that help at all?

[img]
USB_Err.jpg
[/img]

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by jhsa » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:58 pm

Did you already try connecting without the SD Card inserted?

João

EDIT: Can you also try it on another computer? that comfirm (or not) that the radio is the problem..
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Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:00 pm

You're simply learning that it isn't connecting.

I would try a different USB cable and all possible ports, including a hub. These things are quite temperamental. I have had devices that would work on one cable but not another or one port and not another. This despite the ports and cables working fine for other purposes. Don't think a cable is "good" just because it works with one device.

You didn't answer Mike's question about the size of SD card. Big cards can pose a problem. Have you tried removing the card as I suggested?

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:13 pm

OK. Up to this point, I had not seen the SD card. I had to RTFM to find it.
I took it out and booted up with the trim switches held inwards. The display says "Boot Loader V1.3". As it said more than that before, I figured it must have read the extra from the SD card, so I put it in a USB carrier and had a look at it. It looks OK. It's a 4GB crd, mostly empty. The \logs directory and the \models directory are empty. The \firmware directory contains the ersky9xr_rom_r212.bin file. Could I copy the latest firmware directly onto the card?

When I connected the radio to the PC without the card, it still gave the same "USB device not recognised" message. Even if I can copy the new firmware onto the card, I'd still like to solve this.

To answer your questions :
I have tried three USB cables that work with other equipment, and all give the same result.
I have tried two ports on my PC - a USB3 and USB2. Other ports are in use (eg wireless mouse)
I have tried other equipment to verify my USB ports - hard disk in a USM enclosure, thumb drive, MP3 player, Olympus recorder, card from Turnigy radio in a USB carrier. All are OK.
I'm afraid I don't have another computer to try. One is generally enough for me ;-)

It's starting to look a bit like a hardware problem - but I'm not ruling out the FBKC possibility :-(

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Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:09 pm

Sounds like a reasonable card.

To upgrade to R218, the current release version, via the card go to http://www.er9x.com and download the appropriate ersky9x file. It's a .bin file of about 240K. I suggest you rename it to something like "9XT-R218" to help keep track of things.

Using the computer, copy it to the SD card in the folder called "firmware".

Insert the SD card in the transmitter.

Start the transmitter in Maintenance Mode by holding the horizontal trim switches away from each other while turning on.

Select Update Bootloader and proceed to flash from the R218 file.

Turn off and restart in Bootloader mode by holding the trim switches together while turning on. You should see a reference to Bootloader 1.8.

Now select the 9XT-R218 file (or whatever you called it) and press menu long to flash.

When flashing is complete, press exit long to start the firmware.

You should now be up to date.

Now try the USB connection again to see if any of this made a difference. Let us know.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:25 pm

I'm really glad you made that update. The way it is done is not intuitive (well, not to me), so I needed this hand-holding.
Is any of this in a manual anywhere? It doesn't seem to be in the ones I've seen so far.

Just one point about your instructions above, where you say "Select Update Bootloader and proceed to flash from the R218 file", I thought "By doing what?" I had read the entire instruction, so I borrowed from a couple of lines further down and held the Menu key, and it said it was flashing the Eeprom, and showed a progress chart - then I turned it off and followed your instructions, brought it up again in Boot Loader mode and flashed it again. BTW, it doesn't say Boot Loader V1.8. It says 1.7, but it said 1.3 before, so it has clearly upgraded it.

I tried the mix on P2 that was failing before, and it works now.
So everything is good now except for the USB connection, which still does not communicate. Do you have any thoughts about that? Do you think I should return the radio and get another? If I take a screwdriver to it, I guess I'll invalidate any hope of getting it replaced.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by bob195558 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:31 pm

:idea: Maybe check the wires on your USB connections, I have had them break before and had to re-solder them.

Added: OOPS :oops: You have a 9XR-Pro not a 9x radio, my error.

Bob B.
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Probably a FBKC fault

Post by Daedalus66 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:01 pm

Yes I cut corners on the instructions. But you had the satisfaction of solving the riddle. :)

Full details on upgrading via the card are in the manual "Communicating with a Computer" that is part of the full set of 9XR Pro manuals at:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=5581

Did Yogi Berra say "Amazing what you can learn just by reading"? Actually I think he said "Amazing what you can observe just by watching." Or something like that.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by SkyNorth » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:03 pm

If you send HK a video of your USB connection issue , they may send you another radio...and let you keep your old one.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by nollox » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:54 am

Thanks for the hint, SkyNorth, but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking advantage of HK like that. However, I have been in contact with them because I decided that I didn't want to start any hardware intervention that might invalidate any warranty I had, because of the possibility that I wouldn't be able to fix it. If HK sent me another and showed no interest in recuperating this one, then It would be worth having a go - nothing to lose.
I'm going to make a video today, and we'll see what happens.

Other than that, I'd like to send a huge "thank you" to all those who helped me. You guys were brilliant. It's worth so much to work with people who are responsive, and who know their subject in-depth.

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Re: Probably a FBKC fault

Post by jhsa » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:19 am

Told ya. ;) :) :mrgreen:

Be careful, it is contagious :mrgreen:
Be aware that once you open that radio, you will have to mod your radio forever :)
It is an open source virus :D Most of us have been infected. :mrgreen:
You can for example replace a couple 2 position switches with 3 position switches, add bluetooth, etc.
But let's concentrate on getting it working :mrgreen:

João
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