Model Setup Help?

ersky9xr is the port of the er9x firmware to the 9XRPRO radio.
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gohsthb
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by gohsthb » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:40 am

I read through most of this thread pretty fast so pardon me if I missed something.

Nmryon it seems that you might not understand what each of the control channels for the helicopter is doing.

Channel 1 is the throttle. This simply controls the motor speed. Specktrum radios use curves that go from 0-100. Er9x (and friends) use curves that go from -100 to 100. So some conversion is required to end up with the same curve. So a zero in the Specktrum manual will actually be -100 in your radio.

Channels 2, 3, and 4 are the basic directional controls. I think these are already figured out.

Channel 5 is panic mode on or off. I'm not sure which direction will be which, the channel may need to be reversed to check.

Channel 6 is the pitch channel. This controls the up/down movement of the swash. This is the control that make the helicopter go up and down. This control is linked to the throttle stick. On a CP heli you don't control the throttle from the throttle stick, what you control is the pitch. The throttle curves go towards full throttle at high or low throttle to compensate for the extra load from the increased pitch.

Code: Select all

Channel 1 will have probably 4 mixer lines
+100% THR Switch(ID0) Curve(C1) **This is the normal/startup mode the curve will start at -100 so the motor is not spinning
+100% THR Switch(ID1) Curve(C2) **First idle up mode; this is for doing stunts and possibly inverted flying 
+100% THR Switch(ID2) Curve(C3) **Second idle up mode; this one has a higher throttle and more head RPMs which will increase the response of the heli
R -100% FULL Switch(THR) **Note Replace mixer type; this is the throttle cut/hold, simply makes sure the throttle stay off

Channel 6 only needs 2 mixer lines
+100% THR Switch(ID0) **Normal mode pitch curve; the pitch range for this mode is typically a few degrees negative to full positive.  As a beginner you will want to start learning in this mode.  The reason is if you pull the throttle stick all the way down to kill the motor, the heli gets jammed into the ground less, as Kaos eluded to earlier.
+100% THR Switch(!ID0) **Idle up pitch curve, note how there is no curve used here.  The pitch uses the full range from -100 to 100.  This allows for full aerobatic flight including inverted.
-Gohst


nmyron
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by nmyron » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:59 pm

gohsthb wrote:I read through most of this thread pretty fast so pardon me if I missed something.

Nmryon it seems that you might not understand what each of the control channels for the helicopter is doing.

Channel 1 is the throttle. This simply controls the motor speed. Specktrum radios use curves that go from 0-100. Er9x (and friends) use curves that go from -100 to 100. So some conversion is required to end up with the same curve. So a zero in the Specktrum manual will actually be -100 in your radio.

Channels 2, 3, and 4 are the basic directional controls. I think these are already figured out.

Channel 5 is panic mode on or off. I'm not sure which direction will be which, the channel may need to be reversed to check.

Channel 6 is the pitch channel. This controls the up/down movement of the swash. This is the control that make the helicopter go up and down. This control is linked to the throttle stick. On a CP heli you don't control the throttle from the throttle stick, what you control is the pitch. The throttle curves go towards full throttle at high or low throttle to compensate for the extra load from the increased pitch.

Code: Select all

Channel 1 will have probably 4 mixer lines
+100% THR Switch(ID0) Curve(C1) **This is the normal/startup mode the curve will start at -100 so the motor is not spinning
+100% THR Switch(ID1) Curve(C2) **First idle up mode; this is for doing stunts and possibly inverted flying 
+100% THR Switch(ID2) Curve(C3) **Second idle up mode; this one has a higher throttle and more head RPMs which will increase the response of the heli
R -100% FULL Switch(THR) **Note Replace mixer type; this is the throttle cut/hold, simply makes sure the throttle stay off

Channel 6 only needs 2 mixer lines
+100% THR Switch(ID0) **Normal mode pitch curve; the pitch range for this mode is typically a few degrees negative to full positive.  As a beginner you will want to start learning in this mode.  The reason is if you pull the throttle stick all the way down to kill the motor, the heli gets jammed into the ground less, as Kaos eluded to earlier.
+100% THR Switch(!ID0) **Idle up pitch curve, note how there is no curve used here.  The pitch uses the full range from -100 to 100.  This allows for full aerobatic flight including inverted.
-Gohst

I didn't, not at first. But after several posts and viewing some other configuration files supplied by kaos and input from others, I worked out what was going on, and how to properly bind the throttle curves to the throttle channel while binding the pitch curves to the pitch channel. And according to the manual on the CPS it does supply three pitch modes, however I see how using ID0 and !ID0 would simplify this (since the final two curves are identical really). I think if you look at the last model config file I posted for eePeSkye, it'll make a lot more sense. And right now my concern really is even getting CH1 to spin the head of the heli at all, which with my OrangeRX module, it does not. Collective pitch movements are correct, but the blade head doesn't turn at all. It appears I have a less-than-functional OrangeRX module.

I just received a Spektrum DSM module today, however it seems the back of the case makes it a little too deep to make full contact with the pinout in the module bay. Without the back on the module and the antenna still connected, it comes on when I power the transmitter on. I'm trying to work out a way to shave down the module back to make this fit. We'll see how it goes after that.

nmyron
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by nmyron » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:42 pm

Ha! With a little creative sanding to shallow out the box on the back, it connected right up and CH1 works. Now I just have to fix some other things. Rudder doesn't respond correctly and the Stability/Agility/3D mode switch light is backwards (red in stability mode, blue in both other modes). But I'll futx with that in a bit. At least now I know the heli works!!! Woot!!!! :D :D :D :D

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by nmyron » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:58 pm

gohsthb wrote:I read through most of this thread pretty fast so pardon me if I missed something.

Nmryon it seems that you might not understand what each of the control channels for the helicopter is doing.

Channel 1 is the throttle. This simply controls the motor speed. Specktrum radios use curves that go from 0-100. Er9x (and friends) use curves that go from -100 to 100. So some conversion is required to end up with the same curve. So a zero in the Specktrum manual will actually be -100 in your radio.

Channels 2, 3, and 4 are the basic directional controls. I think these are already figured out.

Channel 5 is panic mode on or off. I'm not sure which direction will be which, the channel may need to be reversed to check.

Channel 6 is the pitch channel. This controls the up/down movement of the swash. This is the control that make the helicopter go up and down. This control is linked to the throttle stick. On a CP heli you don't control the throttle from the throttle stick, what you control is the pitch. The throttle curves go towards full throttle at high or low throttle to compensate for the extra load from the increased pitch.

Code: Select all

Channel 1 will have probably 4 mixer lines
+100% THR Switch(ID0) Curve(C1) **This is the normal/startup mode the curve will start at -100 so the motor is not spinning
+100% THR Switch(ID1) Curve(C2) **First idle up mode; this is for doing stunts and possibly inverted flying 
+100% THR Switch(ID2) Curve(C3) **Second idle up mode; this one has a higher throttle and more head RPMs which will increase the response of the heli
R -100% FULL Switch(THR) **Note Replace mixer type; this is the throttle cut/hold, simply makes sure the throttle stay off

Channel 6 only needs 2 mixer lines
+100% THR Switch(ID0) **Normal mode pitch curve; the pitch range for this mode is typically a few degrees negative to full positive.  As a beginner you will want to start learning in this mode.  The reason is if you pull the throttle stick all the way down to kill the motor, the heli gets jammed into the ground less, as Kaos eluded to earlier.
+100% THR Switch(!ID0) **Idle up pitch curve, note how there is no curve used here.  The pitch uses the full range from -100 to 100.  This allows for full aerobatic flight including inverted.
-Gohst
I was just re-reading through this, and reading from the Blade Nano CPS thread over on RCGroups, and I think you've mis-stated a couple things. CH5 is not just for Panic mode. CH5 feeds the switching from Stability, Agility, and 3d flight mode, as well as panic mode. Maybe that was the way of things on the CPx? But on the CPS I think your statement is wrong.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... tcount=130

&

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... tcount=131

Image

Now, I have yet to fully test this. Since I've gotten it running I've encountered some issues with it while in Stability mode. For some reason in the gyro-enabled Stability mode it wants to fly off forward/left. There is no amount of trim I can feed the ail/ele channels that correct it out, and trimming doesn't seem to be the solution when the swash will self-level in 3D mode (I'm just not experienced enough yet to fly in 3D safely). And when in 3d mode, it hovers level around 4ft off the ground on it's own in one spot so I'm fairly sure it's the factory gyro calibration that's the issue. In Stability mode to get it to stay anywhere near my takeoff point I have to feed in about 50-60% rear/30-40% right cyclic to hold it in position. And occasionally while doing this the red light will blink on/off once very quickly, it shudders and flips out for a second. Maybe that's my IDx mix that's causing that. I set it as you see in the image above, and setup a mix for TRN to Add 40.

I've emailed HH as I think there's something up with the onboard gyro. There's supposed to be a gyro calibration mode, but for the life of me I can't get it into that mode using the provided directions. Maybe my throttle limits at 80 are the cause. I tried adjusting the mixes and limits to see if I could get it, but I can't.

Image

Daedalus66
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by Daedalus66 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:14 pm

It seems to me you are making things a good deal harder than you need to. If you don't, at this stage, need 3D capability, I would simply set up your transmitter to emulate an MLP6DSM and then bind in that mode (as explained in the manual, with trainer held and rudder full left).

I provided full details earlier in this thread on how to set up an emulation of a DX4e or DX5e. The MLP6DSM is essentially the same so all that applies. Note that channel 5 is controlled by the mode switch with three positions (-100, 0, 100), while channel 6 is panic and has two positions (-100, 100) and is controlled by the trainer button.

It's extremely simple to do this and results are virtually guaranteed. While learning to fly with the basic setup, you can pursue the computer transmitter setup at your leisure.

Just in case it doesn't work, you would have good evidence of a problem with the heli. As things stand now, I very much doubt HH will be able to help as it's not clear there is a problem in the model.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


nmyron
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by nmyron » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:16 pm

It's all really "at my leisure" though... it is a hobby after all, and part of the package is learning how to use the transmitter. You're right, I could rebind it in DSM and emulate a DX-series transmitter. And I've thought about that, but then that means repeated rebinds until I figure out the deal. And this won't be the only model I'm planning to use the transmitter with. I've got a plane in the garage that I should be taking up some time this week, so all these bugs in the way I program the transmitter will need worked out at one time or another. Besides, I'm the type of person that works at something until I'm there, and working around an issue instead of finding a solution will just nag at me. I'll constantly remember the one thing that doesn't work, and nothing will be enjoyable. I'd fly it for a couple minutes and spend the rest of the day working out the rest of my issues. I don't mind waiting to fly until I work out the problem. I mean, I'm 33, I've waited this long just to own the heli... What's a few more days while I work out what I'm doing wrong setting it up? I just figured I'd post the latest news.

The guy from HH that called me back was helpful in working out what's going on. Figured out the reason it wasn't going into calibrate is you have to run the throttle up with the throttle lock off so it causes the throttle not to arm when the heli is powered up. Then it's a matter of waiting until the lights start blinking. I was also advised that binding to a DX series controller might make it behave differently than when bound to a 9x-type transmitter. He mentioned having users send back their helis when using the OrangeRX transmitter units (not the module but the transmitters) for odd behaviors and rebinding them to their test transmitters and having no issues at all with them. Also recommended setting up an "insta-trim" for the calibration flights until I get the calibration worked out and the gyro where I like it. That it may take a few flights to get it where it feels good, and the insta-trim can help to set trims quickly while I have it set at a near-stable point.

Another side note - received a response from tech engineers from HobbyKing in RE to the OrangeRX module issue. Showed them some data here, and some data I found in various other threads restating the CH1 issue. He read over it, said "Interesting... This is the first I've heard of this, but it bears looking into." I offered to send my unit back to them to have them look at the apparent-incompatibility with their Orange module and integrated DSM2/DMSX receivers. Waiting on word back. I also asked why they were built without disconnect-able micro-coax antenna. I had disassembled my Spektrum unit and was able to pop the antenna right off the board so I could clean up the back of the case. Tried to take the Orange module apart and it seems they use clamp-on micro-coax connectors permanently affixed to the mainboard. Seems to be somewhat of a failure point. I mean, if something happens and the antenna is snapped off and takes the full coax connector with it, the whole module is garbage. On the Spektrum, if I snap the antenna off (I did, while trying to bend it slightly back) I spend $9.99 for a case replacement and move my module into the new case.

Daedalus66
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Model Setup Help?

Post by Daedalus66 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:20 pm

You're missing the point, which is to establish a bench mark by setting up an emulation of a "standard Spektrum Transmitter". It only takes a short time and is invaluable as a starting point for programming other models. It also gives you a way to check the functioning of the model with standard inputs without the potential confusion of programming issues.

So it's not an either/or proposition but a valuable investment of a very small amount of time in an alternative way of controlling the model.

The Spektrum comments on the Orange module are, in this case anyway, justified, as the Orange module simply doesn't work properly (though there's no problem getting the previous Orange module to bind and function properly with these models).

The comments by the HK engineer indicate that they don't read feedback on their own forums or here. The problem has been very clear for at least 8 or 9 months.

The change in the Orange antenna mount came with the 2014 version. The design of the antenna mount has always been very poor, sticking vulnerably out the back, so it breaks if the transmitter falls backwards. The early modules had the connector on a pigtail and it was relatively easy to modify to a reasonable configuration. Then HK decided to attach the antenna mount directly to the board, making modification much more difficult. It also has the implications you mention.

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by nmyron » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:04 am

Works!

Took a little fooling around with the thresholds on CH1. I had to raise the upper limit a point or two at a time until when I started the heli at full throttle, the lights came on as described in the calibration mode (I think I hit like 86 or 87 on the upper limit). Had the same forward/left pull, but I corrected it out with rear/right cyclic. Took off, flew for 10 seconds, landed, did that three times. Powered off the heli and the transmitter. Recharged the battery and powered it back up. Took off like a champ with just a slight forward drift that was easily correctable with a little rear cyclic. Did bump into a few things, but just being able to get it up off the ground without it being nuts and trying to slam into walls is much better. Noticed now that it behaves a lot more like I've read it should (IE if you pitch forward it will "move" that way, then continue to drift in the same direction until you oppose that moment with opposite cyclic input). I figure if I throw it back into calibration a couple more times from here, and try to "narrow down" on a good stable point it will improve more.

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by Daedalus66 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:24 am

Congratulations!

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kaos
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by kaos » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:26 am

I am curious the calibration procedure. I might get one in the future. You said you calibrate it with 'full throttle'? how does that work?
Just like to know what the calibration procedure is.

edit: I reread the calibration manual page, I guess I misunderstood you saying full throttle. It is full throttle at power on then lower to bottom then hover. But that is surely a very complicated calibration procedure. ;) they should be able to make it so just by hovering straight by cyclic and just push a button to have it calibrated. I figure this part is just for trimming like the instant trim in er9x.

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by nmyron » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:16 am

Image

Essentially, if it's like I was seeing and it drifts in Stability mode but in 3D mode the swash is level (indicating no issues with the physical swash adjustments), then you follow the above. If it flies bad in all flight modes, the problem is likely a physical adjustment issue. But, if you need to calibrate, turn your transmitter on, throttle up to full, then plug the battery into the heli. The throttle will fail to arm, and the red and blue lights will light simultaneously and look purple and flash slowly. Throttle back down, and start a slow throttle up to just a couple inches to a foot off the ground, using as little cyclic input as possible to hold it near takeoff position. The manual suggests 30 seconds in the air, then land and pull the battery. However the HH tech that I talked to today said 3-4 10sec flights works as well (the gyro will not work in this mode so it can be hard to control if you let it get away from you). Also advised to trim a lot while in calibration mode so that it holds center as stable as possible. If done well, that will become the "new normal" and no trims should be necessary once the calibration is saved. I've got some trims set on the ali/ele/rud channels now to hold it near-still after takeoff - my plan is to take another calibration flight after the battery charges and save the result, see how stable it is after this.

I also found I had better results "saving" the results of my calibration flights by shutting the transmitter off, then the battery, so the heli has a couple seconds to save the results to EEPROM before power-off. My guess is alongside the accelerometer on board there is a small EEPROM chip that stores it's "centerpoint" data for the gyro to function properly.

I've run the battery down to the LVC 4 times so far and it's fairly controllable now. I was able to reset all the limits back down and have had no issues also. I've re-entered calibration mode a couple times since decreasing the limit as well so it may not have been the limit increase that "did it". I did have to re-bind it (per instruction from HH) - was advised to hold right rudder, but with the throttle full up; the suggestion being that having the -100 limit at the bottom of the range may have caused erratic behavior that was somewhat confusing to the heli. I'm not going to argue though, it flies! And he was really willing to talk me through it, explain what I was seeing and what I should expect.

I'm going to give it another run, copy my test heli profile to overwrite the one I started with and that should be it! I can move on to my plane, and hopefully by the end of the week have it up in the air as well.

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kaos
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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by kaos » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:03 am

If you can fly that heli at will, you won't have any problem flying a plane. ;)

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by Crashanium » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Hello nmyron,

I just got myself a nano CPS and I have read and reread this thread and can't quite get it all to work. it's close, but without the panic mode setup. I have nothing on channel 5 and it works OK, except for the panic switch. I tried putting the flight mode switch on the gear channel (Channel 5) and the nano went crazy. I'm using a home made module with the guts out of a DX4, so it should work. It works with all the other spektrum gear I have. Does anyone have a working template for the nano CPS please before I bin the lot?

Daedalus66
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Model Setup Help?

Post by Daedalus66 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:38 pm

Channel order must be TAER. Channel 5 should have a 3 position switch set to give -100, 0, 100. Channel 6 should be momentary (trainer) switch set to give -100 normally, 100 when pressed. All six channels should have limits set to 80. Channels 2 and 4 should be inverted (reversed) on Limits page. Model must be bound as though using NON-computer transmitter.

There are more sophisticated ways to set it up but this should get you flying.

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by duncandan » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:56 pm

Hi guy's and gal's, I know there hasn't been much activity on this thread, but I just purchased a used QX350 and I am trying to fly it with my Taranis.
Using Daedalus66's set up, Thanks by the way. I can bind to the quad, but the blue, green, red leds are slow flashing in their respective modes.
According to the manual that means it bound without GPS, probably cause I'm in my apartment. But I can't get the rotors to spin up. Any suggestions?
Thanks Dan.

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Re: Model Setup Help?

Post by duncandan » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:26 am

Hi again, problem solved won,t arm without GPS lock. Took it out to the field today and it fly's like a charm. Thanks Dan


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