Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

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BiggsDarklighter
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Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:43 am

When I turn the radio on, all it does is flash the backlight on-off-on-off-on etc...

I have a bad feeling I fried something, or erased the chip... I am working on my 9XR-Pro Futaba conversion. I was in the process of casing it, and had turned it on and off a couple times with no issues. Then the third time I powered it up, the backlight was dim and LCD screen didn't come on. I tried a bunch of things, nothing worked. Fresh battery, uncased it again, redid LCD connections, jumped R9 with tweezers...

Now I don't have much plugged into the board at the moment. No switches, no gimbals, no pots, no speaker... The USB and SD card are unplugged too. The only things that were plugged in was the switch/rf board, LCD, and backlight. It is possible the erase pin on that header got bumped to the case, and momentarily grounded.

The 5v regulator wasn't putting out 5v, I reflowed it and now a solid 4.9v. The 3.3v linear regulator output is going up and down. Max voltage is something like 1.5-1.8v.

Is this simply a popped 3.3v regulator? Or do I need to take a look somewhere else?


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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:38 am

What the 4377? This is probably a big clue. When I read the battery voltage, say at the 5v regulator, it is going up and down. Fluctuation of 1-2 volts. I give up for tonight. Tomorrow I think I will try unsoldering the 5v regulator and feeding in 5v from my power supply, or replacing the regulator if I can find one in my stash.

Probably shoulda picked a transmitter that has replacement mainboards available. :oops:

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jhsa
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by jhsa » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:18 am

It sounds like a short on the 3.3V bus..

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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:53 pm

I have nothing plugged in to short lol... Alrighty I will take an extra close look tonight with a magnifying glass and see if a random bit of junk is lodged somewhere. I didn’t see anything last night...

The 5v regulator was buzzing at one point. What does that even power up? It is suspect and would be nothing to remove. But the voltage coming out is stable... So maybe not.

With basically nothing plugged in, are there any components that are especially suspect?

The processor was getting hot. Can’t think that is normal but never checked it before either.

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jhsa
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by jhsa » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:16 pm

Check for shorts on the processor pins. I hope you didn't kill it with some short. :(
And please keep the subject in only one topic, I think I have already answered the same question on another topic. Like this the information will be scattered and it will be difficult to provide some decent help :(

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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:06 pm

Lol naw not me. :lol: You actually answered this already the post above in this same thread. I simply responded with more info, thoughts, and questions relating to your initial assessment. I do have a handful of different threads about other issues, but always make a point to limit each thread to the one "big" question so that others can follow along later on. And I don't link them back to any build threads, until they are resolved.

I took a really good look and didn't find anything out of place. No loose solder balls, bits of metal, etc, So I lifted up the 3.3v regulator (U3), and now have a nice and steady main battery input. Unfortunately, I didn't take any notes yesterday. I think I was seeing battery voltage on one of the U3 pins... Looking through the schematic, it shouldn't be seeing battery voltage at all, but the 5v from the other regulator.

I need to dig up the data sheet for U3 and figure out that pins are supposed to see what. Or reverse in from some of the test points.

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jhsa
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by jhsa » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:06 am

Sorry, my phone tricked me and i thought I saw 2 different threads.. :(
My bad.

Check for shorts on the output path of the 3.3V regulator, now that you lifted it's pins.

João
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mentero
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by mentero » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:10 am

if your 5v line is working, and you have a (well) regulated power supply, try to feed the 3.3v line with it and see what happens.

Miguel
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:39 pm

No problem João! I figured it was something like that. :lol:

Guys, I think I just have to write this board off as a loss. :( João, my eyes aren't what they used to be. And while my soldering skills are likely above average, I don't have the ideal reworking tools for this. As careful and patient as I was, I still lifted the 3 traces on the left side. My diag skills though aren't up to the level needed to solve this. There appears to be a short to ground, as the top pin tones out to the 3.3v line. Unfortunately, I didn't look at the data sheet first, and had fed the 3.3v in there...

Mentero, even with the 3.3v feed attached to the tab where it is likely supposed to be, the processor gets melty hot in under ten seconds. I (mildly) burnt my finger on it. My power supply was showing 2.74 amps. I can limit voltage, or amps. Apparently not both... :oops:

So I suspect the damage is already done. I will diagnose this further, if I have a carefully laid out set of directions. Test this here, you should see this, kinda thing.

But even if repaired, not sure my confidence in this particular mainboard will be. It isn't just a couple hundred dollar drone at risk, but a sailboat with countless build hours and probably over a grand worth of materials. While I can try it out on some of my inexpensive boats, will I ever trust it enough again for that one?

If I just knew HOW I had done the damage, I wild feel a lot easier. But I never found any evidence, and can only make guesses. I had as little plugged in as possible at each step of the way to limit the potential to damage something. No sticks, no switches. No externals. I was going slowly and testing at every step.

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jhsa
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by jhsa » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:10 pm

My guess is.that you might have shorted something :(

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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:59 am

Yeah I must have, but it does not appear to be any of the peripherals plugging into the mainboard. When it happened, the only things plugged in were the LCD on the extension (already well tested), the rf/switch module board, the switch, and the power running through the original (bare, mostly) Futaba mainboard.

I didn't have the gimbals, pots, or any switches plugged in. No RF module. And no usb/sd card stack.

The RF module pins could have bumped and shorted to something as I had to move the assembly about to bump buttons on power up. The usb stack pins could have bumped something. But both of those would have both been momentary, and not prolonged. This acted like a prolonged, constant short.

Was having nothing plugged in a BAD idea? Seems to me that would be the smartest way, add in each system one at a time checking along the way...

Whatever the case diagnosing this further is out of my reach, without a lot of help. And trusting it after this is still another big concern. I have another 9XR-Pro, and a 9X radio coming. I will keep using the bad board for mockup until I am ready for the final install steps I guess.

Any further advice to prevent this mishap occurring again?

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Kilrah
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by Kilrah » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:00 am

If I had to hazard a guess I'd say something touched that shouldn't have and sent 5V or more into the 3.3V rail, blew up the MCU, which since acts as the partial short you're seeing.

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mentero
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by mentero » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:26 pm

If you have somebody that repairs mobile phones nearby, he will be able to rework and solder a new CPU for you.
With the right equipment it is not that complicated.

Good luck,
Miguel
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:14 am

I think repairing this is, impractical for me. I would have to find the right processor, find somebody to do it that isn't a corporate store, and after all that stand a good chance of still having other unseen damage. I know I damaged the board and lifted traces by the 3.3v regulator. If this were a $20-30 easy fix, I would happily do it. Maybe even a $50 one. But I managed to find a whole new/unused radio for $75.

So I just need to be TRIPLE cautious not to damage this one. As I go back over everything I did, I suspect it happened trying to utilize the 3.3v feed to switch the transistor/fet setup for the analog power meter. It didn't go out WHILE I was doing that, but I suspect that is when the initial damage was done. I was having weird feedback issues, so I need to isolate what I am doing much better.

This time through, I have some micro relays. And I found two much safer sources to power up off of, the 5v and main battery switched feeding the 5v regulator. I think I will utilize the more removed battery main feed. Good news is the original board works well enough still that I can at least sort out that and not risk the new one.

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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by bob195558 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:39 am

Some more info here about replacing the processor, if needed.
Upgrading to the ATMEGA2561-16AU CPU Chip: https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopi ... 120#p74105
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

BiggsDarklighter
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:43 pm

We shall see... I might actually need to do that. eBay screwed me over on the replacement radio. New(ish) seller so they are holding the funds until he ships it. But when he called, they said I hadn't paid. So it is a mess. I had a very nasty call with them today... So in theory, I bought a replacement radio but who knows if I will ever see it.

And as stated before, I am really leery of repairing this one. I already know for sure that more damage beyond just the processor has occurred. If I can't get the replacement 9XR-Pro, I will more likely use the 9X I got instead of trying to repair this one. But, the 9XR-Pro does have a LOT more features. The question is, are they features I truly need? Or are they simply bonus wants...

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bob195558
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by bob195558 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:42 am

Did you use paypal ?
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

BiggsDarklighter
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:22 am

Yes, and already have been refunded. I wasn't worried about the money aspect of it. It turned into a long crappy story though. There is a small chance, VERY small, that I will still get that radio. Ebay really dropped the ball on this one. Their "new payment options" has now screwed me twice out of purchases I was after. And now I don't have a 9XR-Pro replacement. Head over to my build thread for more discussion on moving forward!

9XR-Pro into Vintage Futaba FP Build, questions and progress pics!

I may have to repair this, but for now pursuing other options seems to be a lot smarter.

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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by bob195558 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:00 am

erSkyTx also works on other radios, I use erSkyTx on my Taranis x9d: http://www.er9x.com/
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:07 pm

Yeah I have a Turnigy 9x here running one of the many variants. Firmware isn't the big issue here. It is the hardware... The 9XR-Pro is the odd combination that I need. It has all the features of the more mordant radios, combined with the older legacy radios. I can plug in an encoder, onboard SD and voice, all sorts of switches, haptic, etc etc. Combined with an older small 128x64 screen.

The 9X probably has the right sized screen already. I am about to go grab the two radios right now in fact and open them up.

The Taranis X9D won't work, nor will most of the other current options, UNLESS I can plug/wire in a different screen. Supposedly, you can run two screens on the 9XR-Pro. The FrSky QX7 might work, but it was missing other features. But all of that is a better discussion really for the build thread lol.

An important consideration to put out there. The time and frustration I would put into trying to repair this 9XR-Pro, I can better afford to just replace it. Spending $100-150 for a replacement (if/when I ever find one) is cheaper than the time and aggravation to me. A straight forward processor replacement, maybe. But once I then have to go in and figure out fuses and settings I know nothing about, firmware modifications, and stuff like that where I have to spend hours researching it, not worth it.

The hardware hacking side of things I am slightly better than fair with, the software side, ugh not so much.

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jhsa
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by jhsa » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:33 pm

You could also have voice on your 9x radio. But you would have to build a board for it yourself.
I have a 9x radio with stock board that has both voice and an encoder. I did upgrade the processor to an Atmega2561 though.

João
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Re: Did I erase my radio/chip? Or just fry a regulator?

Post by BiggsDarklighter » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:39 am

Yeah, but the 9XR-Pro has all that already! :lol: I heave no idea yet what I am going to do with this 9X... I probably could build the board if I had gerber files and a BOM. Do you have a link to more info???


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