elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ? SORTED

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DonaldNZ
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elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ? SORTED

Post by DonaldNZ » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:10 pm

Hi folks

Flying wing 2 servos (elevons)
I am running a stock tx purchased from HK ~1 year ago

I have elevons working ok.

I would like 2 options set up on separate model memories
1) a knob P3 to provide the ability to reduce the servo travel of both AIL and ELE
2) 2 knobs P1 to adjust ELE travel and P2 to adjust AIL travel

I would like the weight to never go below say 30 % to avoid having no control

Turnigy TGY 9x

SUN : er9x-r762
VERS: V1. 5655-erez
DATE: 14.05.2012
TIME: 20:50:26


I have watched youtube attempting to understand
Ersky9x_Understanding the Mixer
pilot140467

current setup with one knob P3
Unfortunately it reduces servo travel to close to zero at full anticlockwise knob.

MIXER

CH1 25% ELE
+30%AIL
*30%P3
CH2 -25% ELE
+ 30% AIL
* 30% P3

CH1
source ELE
weight 25
offset 0
F1Modetrim OFF
Trim ON
Mulitpx Add

source AIL
weight 30
offset 0
F1Modetrim OFF
Trim ON
Mulitpx Add

source P3
weight 30
offset 70
F1Modetrim OFF
Trim OFF
Multpx Multiply


CH2
source ELE
weight -25
Offset 0
F1Modetrim OFF
Trim ON
Multpx Add

Source AIL
Weight 30
offset 0
F1Modetrim OFF
Trim ON
Multpx Add

Source P3
Weight 30
Offset 70
F1Modetrim OFF
Trim OFF
Multpx Mulitply


Any advice appreciated

Regards Donald

post edited due to my error
Last edited by DonaldNZ on Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.

DonaldNZ
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:16 pm

Tried altering P3 mix to the following 3 options

weight 25
offset 75

and
weight 10
offset 90

and
weight 40
offset 60

I think this is most likely as I do not understand the mix math.

All above still reduce servo travel to near zero at full anticlockwise of knob P3
I tried an additional mix to add with knob travel but wasn't so successful either

I'll try more tomorrow
regards Donald

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jhsa
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by jhsa » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:55 pm

DonaldNZ wrote:
Turnigy TGY 9x

SUN : er9x-r762
VERS: V1. 5655-erez
DATE: 14.05.2012
TIME: 20:50:26
Hi, welcome to the forum.
Can you update the firmware on your radio? The one you have installed is nearly 4 years old. I don't even remember what options it had :(

If you are able to update it please go to http://www.er9x.com and download the latest eepe, as well as the latest firmware file for your radio. You can also download the latest er9x manual from there.
Then install eepe and use it to install er9x to your radio. Do you have a programmer?
I would highly recommend updating. New features, bug fixes, etc.
I have watched youtube attempting to understand
Ersky9x_Understanding the Mixer
pilot140467
That would be me ;) :D
I hope you found them useful.
I would like 2 options set up on separate model memories
1) a knob P3 to provide the ability to reduce the servo travel of both AIL and ELE
2) 2 knobs P1 to adjust ELE travel and P2 to adjust AIL travel

I would like the weight to never go below say 30 % to avoid having no control

So, I will assume you updated the firmware. Offset works differently in recent versions and it is much easier to work with. Before, all I can remember is that I never understood it, and it was a pain to program some offset in a mix. :(
I have no idea how to do it the old way :) Sorry :(

So, 2 examples here.

1)

CH1 25% ELE
+30%AIL
*25% P3 offset (75%) (This will reduce the channel travel by 50% when P3 is at minimum)
CH2 -25% ELE
+ 30% AIL
*25% P3 offset (75%)
(This will reduce the channel travel by 50% when P3 is at minimum)


2)

For the number 2) example You need a version of er9x with GVARs (Global Variables). I don't know if it was already implemented on the version you have installed.. :(

MIXER
CH1 GV1 Ele
GV3 Ail
CH2 GV2 Ele
GV3 Ail

CH14 5% P1 offset (20%)
CH15 -5% P1 offset (-20%)
CH16 5% P2 offset (25%)

GVARs menu

GV1 input c14
GV2 input c15
GV3 input c16

I will try to explain this later as I must go out now ;)
Play with it in eepe :)

João
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by jhsa » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:00 pm

Mike, what about when using GVARs as weight (and offset) in the mix, to be able to select + or - GVx?
That would have saved a mix and a GVAR on the example above??

Thanks

João
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MikeB
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:16 pm

Not really possible. We only have a byte to store the weight value. This goes from -125 to +125 normally. This leaves five unused values -126, -127, -128, +127 and +126. These five values are used to select the GVAR, so there is nowhere left to store the sign for the GVAR.

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jhsa
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by jhsa » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:22 pm

I guess it would need an eeprom change then?
It would really make it easier. It wasn't the first time I came across this problem, which is not really a problem. :)
But it is logical to be able to change it ;)

Thank you

João
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:00 pm

Would it help if GVARS could use the negative of the source?

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DonaldNZ
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:55 am

Amazing response ! Thank you.


Unfortunately at present I have no way of updating the software. I have considered installing the smartipants, this must wait a couple of months, due to finances and time. Therefore I was trying to set up the elevons with the current original software.

It seems I am unable to reduce servo travel from 100% to 50 ~100% via P3
all attempts so fart result in servo travel from approx 10~100%

Do you think I can have an additional ADD mix using P3 as the Source ? this to make the servo travel 50~100%
Therefore as a suggestion the currently programmed MULTIPLY mix reduced to 70%
and a second ADD mix via P3 of say 30%

What would you suggest?

Regards Donald

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by jhsa » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:14 am

I believe you will need to use the offset, just as I did.
The problem is that you will have to find the right values. I tried yesterday and I couldn't :(
The way the firmware handled the offset has changed since a while. Now it is much easier to understand and program.
The problem is that you need an offset that limits your stick travel and at the same time doesn't let the weight value go to zero, leaving you without control.

João
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Re: RE: Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by jhsa » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:22 am

MikeB wrote:Would it help if GVARS could use the negative of the source?

Mike.
Sorry Mike, I'm a bit confused (need coffee :) ), let's see if I understand what you mean..
So you said it is not possible to do it as I suggested due to lack of space on the eeprom.
Do you mean using the signal (+/-) from the mix source itself? But isn't that also replaced by the GVAR? Or is the signal separate from the number? If that is what you mean I think it would be fine.

João
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:56 am

I've been playing with eppee and trying it on my tx

it seems I can not have say 50~100% servo via a knob, yet :)

how would you suggest maybe adding a mix that will not let the servo travel go below 50
%

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:38 am

The revision of eepe handles the weight and offset by adding the offset first, then applying the weight, which limits some possibilities.

What you are looking for is something that goes from 30% to 100%, a range of 70%. Remember that mixes go from -100% to +100%, a total of 200%.
On channel 9 (say) set up 2 mixes:
+35% P3 Offset(100%)
+30% Max

The first mix would give -35% to +35% without the offset (the required 70%), the offset actually adding on 35% (because this is also scaled by the weight), so giving an output of 0-70%.
The second mix adds on 30%, so moving the output to 30% to 100%.

Now use CH9 where you would have used a P3 mix.

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by ReSt » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:42 am

Try the following
+50% AIL
* +50% P1 offset 100 (multiply mix)
+50% AIL

Now, if the pot P1 is fully one way you get the normal movement, and if the pot is fully the other way you the same as having the +100% AIL in twice. But you can now choose, while flying, the amount of increased movement by turning P1.

Reinhard

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by jhsa » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:13 am

Reinhard, the problem is he has an "Elevon" configuration which mixes both Ail and Ele in the same channel..

Wow, Gentlemen, this only proves once again how wonderful the fix offset implementation is :)

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:41 am

"MikeB
On channel 9 (say) set up 2 mixes:
+35% P3 Offset(100%)
+30% Max"

Why can I not have just the second ADD mix on my existing setup?

I wondered if I reduce the initial weight and have an ADD mix this 'holding up' the servo travel to a minimum of the 30%

The question I have is how to progressively ADD the 30 % dependent on pot position.

I tried it on epee and it works but not so on my tx with the lowest pot position still reducing the servo travel to around 5%

maybe a cuppa and lie down will help.

I do not understand what F1modetrm (in my mixer menu) and fix offset actually does, I tried the 2015 manual but I didn't understand.

I wonder about setting up the initial pot mix into a spare channel

then ADD this into both the Ail and ELE ?

Thanks all for helping.

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:53 am

OK, part of the problem here is knowing what features are present in your revision.
On the radio, do you have a "FixOffset" option in mixes?

Try the following:

CH9 +35% P3 Offset(100%)
+30% Max
CH1 25% ELE
+30%AIL
* 100% CH9
CH2 -25% ELE
+ 30% AIL
* 100% CH9

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:56 am

FlModeTrim may be ignored, it is a way of having different trim values for different flight modes.
If you have "FixOffset" on the radio, turn it ON. This causes the offset value to be added AFTER the weight is applied, in which case the following works:
+35% P3 Offset(65%) FixOffset
and this mix gives an output that varies from 30% to 100% with the full range on pot P3 movement.

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:48 am

Thanks Mike

Tried your set up mod using CH9
unfortunately it is still the same with servo travel at zero know full clockwise and a reduced servo travel with know full anticlockwise ( say 70%)

I do not have a fix offset in the MIXER menu

If I look at the top screen which displays each servo travel as a number
with
P3 full clockwise
0.0 0.0 full deflection of either AIL or ELE stick

P3 full anti clockwise
24.1 24.7 full Deflection of AIL stick
17.5 17.5 full deflection of ELE stick

with CH9 ADD and P3 MULTIPLY mix deleted
24.7 24.7 ELE stick full deflection
34.5 34.5 AIL stick full deflection

with the 100% MULTIPLY CH9 mix it is not giving 100% servo travel

any other sneaky ideas?

When I look in the MIXER menu for an unused channel (I have selected CH3) I have the following options

INSERT MIX CH3
Source
Weight
Offset
F1Modetrim
Trim
Curves
Switch
Warning
Multipx
Delay Down
Delay Up
Slow Down
Slow Up
DELETE MIX [MENU]

Regards Donald

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:20 am

I tried
CH9 + 30 125 offset
helped a little so servo travel now 10 to 70% turning P3 although knob was clockwise for less

tried CH9 + -30 P3 -125 Offset to make P3 knob work in correct sense
servo direction reverses at ~80% of P3 rotation

tried +CH9 125%
didn't make much difference


any ideas on 'lifting the bottom end' ?

I'm getting faster at accessing and modifying the menu from a virgin a few days ago.
Last edited by DonaldNZ on Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by ReSt » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:28 am

I have set up a couple of mixes for a model where elevon and Aileron are mixed like for a delta.
It used normal offsets, not fixed offsets.
It works on the radio but not on eepe.

P1 changes elevon and aileron weight between 50% to 100%
P2 changes elevon between 50% and 100%
P3 changes aileron between 50% and 100%

The action of P1 + P2 or P1 +P3 are multiplied with each other. If both are used together you will get 25% (both minimum) to 50% (one minimum, one maximum) to 100% (both maximum).

Reinhard
Mixes.pdf
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:51 am

OK Please try this:
CH8 +35% P3 Offset(100%)
then look at the output of channel 8. As you turn P3 this should go from 0 to 70%.
Now, add this mix to channel 8:
+30% Max
Channel 8 should now go from 30% to 100%.

Mike.
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DonaldNZ
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:47 am

Brilliant Mike, works perfectly with the knob in the correct sense, Thank you.

Thanks Reinhard, I may try that down the track.

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by MikeB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:57 am

So if you use this, it should adjust the movement of both ELE and AIL:
CH1 25% ELE
+30% AIL
*30% CH8
and never reduce them to no movement.

Mike.
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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:25 am

it does, thank you :)
in case anyone else would like a similar setup for their 2 servo sloper

CH1
+25 ELE
+35 AIL
*100 CH8
CH2
-25 ELE
+35 AIL
*100 CH8
CH8
+35 P3 100 Offset
+30 FULL

Thanks again Mike and to all who contributed.

Regards Donald

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Re: elevons with knob to adjust servo travel ?

Post by DonaldNZ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:45 am

I think the Key was my lack of Mixer understanding specifically what FULL would do, thanks.

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