Setting up dual rates for ailerons

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farlinoff
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Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by farlinoff » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:21 am

Hi, I am trying to set up dual rates for ailerons but have had no success. I am using er9x, SVN: er9x-r813, VERS: V1.275-Mike and am attempting to use the setup EXPO/DR screen. The screen dumps in the doco. located at

http://openrcforums.com/wiki/index.php/Er9x_user_guide

are quite different to my screen and I don't really have much of an idea of how this screen works. Would someone please explain with an example either via the screen or via the eePe PC interface how I set these dual rates up.

Regards, Trevor


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MikeB
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by MikeB » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:25 am

Use the DOWN and UP buttons to get the control name highlighted (Rud, Ele, Thr or Ail), then use the LEFT and RIGHT buttons to select "Ail". You will now be editing the expo/dual rates for the Aileron stick.
Set DrSw1 to AIL to use the AIL switch to control the dual rates. Now move the highlighting back to the Weight. If you change the AIL switch, the display should change between Dr Hi and DR Mid. For each of these, use the LEFT and RIGHT buttons to change the weight to you required settings.
Note: If you hold the Ail stick to one side or the other, only one of the Weight values remains highlighted and you will only change the Dr setting for the one side.

Mike.
ersky9x/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!

farlinoff
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by farlinoff » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:49 am

Hi Mike, Thanks for your very prompt reply. I have attempted to follow your instructions but have not had any success as yet. I have attached a dump of the relevant screen from eePe as a .jpg file so you can see clearly what settings I have made. Would you please have a look at these to see what I am incorrectly setting. Also, I understand that there is a new version of the er9x firmware, should I be using this? Regards, Trevor
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EXP-DR Screen.jpg

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jhsa
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by jhsa » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:58 am

We are working on a new version of the manual for er9x.. I believe one for eepe could also follow. I do think that at this point would be easier to set the DR and expo in the radio itself..

Try this pre release of the er9x manual. It's not even close to what the final release will be but it might help you.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=312&start=90#p89669

João
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Daedalus66
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Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by Daedalus66 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:57 pm

On the transmitter, go to the Expo/DR screen. Set to AIL.
Set DrSw1 to AIL. Leave DrSw2 blank.
Weight should read 100, 100.
Flip AIL switch.
Set Weight to, say, 70, 70. (If you leave the stick alone, both will change together)
Test by flipping switch. You should see the graph change.
Exit

You now have aileron dual rate controlled by the AIL switch.
Last edited by Daedalus66 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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MikeB
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by MikeB » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:06 pm

Your settings in eepe look correct. You can test then in eepe by clicking on the SIMULATE button at the bottom.
In the simulator, move the aileron left and right, you should see the channel move to full left and right. Now click on the AIL switch on the left (so it is highlighted). Now moving the aileron left and right should only move the channel by 20%.

Firmware upgrading is optional. If your current version does everything you need, then you don't need to upgrade.
Changes from r813 to r814 are:
Process A3 and A4 telemetry values
Flash saving
Fix GVAR as volume bug
Rotary Encoder improvements
Initialise PPM polarity at start
Handle SPort GPS data
128/2561 add voice alarms
128/2561 add timer1 reset switch
mixer delay and slow improvements
128/2561 add model index menu
Add custom stick names option
Add custom switch ~= option
1. The hard coded VOLT_THRESHOLD, ALT ALARM and MAH ALARM have been removed, along with "FmodeTrim" in a mix.
The alarms can be done with custom and audio/voice switches.
FmodeTrim is now redundant as we have "real" flight modes.
2. Add Throttle idle option at the centre as well as at -100%.
3. New option in a mix to ignore any expo and dual rates on stick inputs.
Add "expo" as a curve option.
Modify A1/A2 scaling code (saves flash)
Use scaled value of A1/A2 when used as source to scalers
Scaler offset to -32000 to +32000, (MENU to edit in steps of 100)
Move the stick mode setting to "Controls" from "General"

Mike.
ersky9x/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!

farlinoff
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by farlinoff » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:44 am

Hi Mike, Thanks for that, I now understand how to use the simulator but alas the dual rates I have set up do not work in the simulator so the plot thickens

I have another question though...I am using an Rx which comes with the Turnigy Tx and by default, this Rx expects Ailerons on its Channel 1, Elevator on its Channel 2, Throttle on its Channel 3 and Rudder on its Channel 4. The er9x/eePe setup refers to channels in a number of my setup screens as shown in the attachments. What is the relationship between these channels and the channels on the Rx? I should add that I have basically got the Tx and Rx working but don't really understand why. Also is the Mode in Stick Mode (screen 1) referring to the mode of the Tx and is this important (my Tx is Mode 1 yet I have had to set this setting to Mode 3 to get it to work).

Regards, Trevor
Attachments
GeneralEdit.jpg
GeneralEdit.jpg (8.64 KiB) Viewed 4214 times
Mixes.jpg
Mixes.jpg (23.8 KiB) Viewed 4214 times
Limits.jpg

Daedalus66
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Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by Daedalus66 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:18 am

First stick mode and channel order are entirely separate issues but they are easily confused. They don't have to match in the menu.

Mode determines which stick axis provides each of the four primary inputs. The most common in North America is Mode 2. It has aileron and elevator on the right stick, rudder and throttle on the left.

Mode 1 interchanges elevator and throttle. Modes 3 and 4 are seldom used.

There are two aspects to setting mode. First the transmitter must be physically set up correctly. For Mode 2 this means centering on the vertical axis of the right stick, friction and no centering on the left (for throttle). Then the transmitter programming must be set so it knows which inputs are coming from which stick.

So let's assume you have your transmitter set up physically for your desired mode and you have gone into the Radio Setup menu and set the stick mode to match. By the way, it's fairly easy to change the physical set up of the transmitter, so don't let the fact that yours is on mode 1 force you to use that mode. Choose which mode suits you best and change the transmitter if necessary.

So stick mode is all about inputs. Set it and leave it alone.

Channel order is about the sequence in which the various channels are output by the programming to the module. They are then sent to the receiver. The receiver in turn divides up the signal into individual channels. Channel 1 goes to the first servo slot, channel 2 to the second, etc.

Note that the channel order is determined by the transmitter programming. Again the setting is in Radio Setup, close to but separate from mode in the menu. The channel order setting determines how new models will be set up. It does not affect any models already created. The receiver doesn't change the order regardless of labels.

The two most common channel orders are AETR (Futaba) and TAER (Spektrum). The transmitter doesn't care what order you choose, but Spektrum type receivers and others using DSM2 or DSMX require throttle to be on channel 1 as that one is set up for failsafe.

So keep Mode and channel order clear and separate. Set them once then leave alone.

Note that if you have already programmed a model you can determine its channel order and adjust it if necessary in the Mixer screen. Just note which input is associated with each channel number and edit if required.

Yours is set as RETA. You need to edit the mixers. Or just set the channel order correctly and go to a new model memory and make a new model.

farlinoff
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by farlinoff » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:53 am

Hi, Thanks very much for your comprehensive answer. I have done some experimenting based upon what you have written and think I understand what you are saying. My Tx is a Mode 1 (Right stick Throttle and Aileron, Left stick Elevator and Rudder) and I am happy with this arrangement.

When in the eePe interface, I chose Mode 1(RUD, ELE, THR, AIL) from the Stick Mode drop down in the General Edit screen and observed that the same order was preserved when I added a new model. I then tested these settings and it all appeared to work correctly as per the eePe settings. I also played with dual rates and found that worked correctly also.

Then, I performed the equivalent operations on the Tx. Again, all sticks worked correctly using 4 test servos connected to Channel 1 to 4 on my Rx.

I guess the thing that I find confusing is that the Aileron works on Channel 1 of the Rx but is placed on Channel 4 on the eePe screens?

Regards, Trevor

Daedalus66
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Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by Daedalus66 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:58 pm

It sounds like what's throwing you off is that representation of stick mode in eePe. You have to be really clear that stick mode has NOTHING to do with channel order. It just defines which stick provides which input to the mixing process; the display is just a way of representing in one line which stick does what (it could just as well be shown as ERAT or ERTA). These inputs are generated simultaneously by the positions of the sticks. So set stick mode once and don't think about any further when programming. At this point there aren't even any channels.

The idea of channel sequence only begins with the Mixer. That's the key page when it comes to the logic of the programming and how the information will be sent. The left column shows channels and is fixed. That's the framework into which the programming fits. So look at the channels there to see how the information from the sticks will be encoded into a signal. Now we are talking about sequence, because transmission is a serial process.

The receiver knows nothing except that the first pulse in the sequence must be sent to the #1 servo slot, second to #2, etc. It's the transmitter that determines what each does. In this case, #1 has been defined as throttle, so that's where the ESC plugs in.

If you are using FrSky module and receiver, you can program any channel order you like, just as long as you plug the right things into the right slots at the receiver. If you chose AETR, the ESC would go into slot #3, regardless of any label. In fact, many modern receivers simply number the slots because they can be used interchangeably.

For Spektrum, it's different. First, channel 1 is the only one with failsafe for most of the most popular receivers, so it must be used for throttle. Second, the UltraMicro BNF models that are a major reason for going Spektrum (or DSM compatible) are hard wired internally to use TAER order.

Just to reiterate. Stick mode doesn't determine channel order, but if you set it wrongly, you will think it does - so set it right and forget it. The channel order setting doesn't change any existing model, only the default order for new models. So set it and leave alone. Mixer page is where things happen to the current model. That's where you can review and edit the channel order. To change it, move the mix lines to different channels. From there, the channel order (normally) stays unchanged through the module to the receiver, where it shows up as what comes out the servo slots.

That "normally" is there because the module CAN in some cases be told to change the channel order. So, for example, the Orange DSM2/DSMX module in Futaba physical format takes in information in the Futaba order (AETR) and sends it to the receiver in Spektrum order (TAER) so you can fly a BNF model with a Futaba transmitter. Now, to avoid confusion, forget you just read all that!

As you can see, while initially confusing, all this is totally logical and not very complicated, at least for relatively simple models. I hope it's clearer now.

farlinoff
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by farlinoff » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:32 am

Hi Daedalus66

Again, thank you for your detailed response. I apologise for not getting back to you sooner but I am still trying to get my head around this stuff and I'm not finding it easy. I have been able to set up the Tx to work correctly physically but also need to actually understand what I am doing. Your answers have helped me on this journey.

Regards,

Trevor

Daedalus66
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Re: Setting up dual rates for ailerons

Post by Daedalus66 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:34 pm

Always nice to hear. Feel free to ask further.


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