Spontaneous reboot while flying and hanging shutdown issues

[RCHH]

Just for info - having read about shut downs etc. early yesterday morning, I have had my Rev.B system with hack and external modules running connected to a 9V external power supply for 20hrs plus and counting. Sometimes I sat the TX in the window for an hour or so in full sunlight (odd big burning thing in the sky rarely seen!) and the system got very hot. Will call it a day at 24hrs. Voice/motion detecting cctv camera listening in as sitting watching for that long was not an option. I suppose I actually used the TX hands on for an hour and a half tops as 'normal usage' setting up and testing new servos. No reboots at all. Release 163. Have not updated to 164 as of yet. My system has never suffered from reboots or any other such problems. Only ever the SD card socket problem now fully cured.

[jhsa]

Talking about SD Card problems, could it be related?
I think you guys should start chatting and find out what settings/hardware you have in common...
You can go on the chat at the bottom right corner of this page.. It's better than emails to solve this kind of problem. On the bottom left you can create a chatroom and invite more people. Then post here what you found out..

Just my 2c

João

[MikeB]

I've just re-built my ersky9x Tx with a Rev B board instead of the Rev 3 board. I've recharged the battery and I'll leave it running. Starting battery voltage is 10.8V
The reported current consumption is 65mA, no tx module, no bluetooth.

Mike.

[SkyNorth]

My thoughts,
On the Ver 3 board , I had to add a 47uf cap to the output of the 3.3V regulator.
With a 5V input to the 3.3V regulator , the output would OSCILLATE on some boards on power up without it..

The Rev B. board has a direct connection to the 3.3V regulator , it is possible that at some particular input voltage , the
regulator , may start to oscillate and reset the system...adding the 47uf to pins 2 - 3 on the external regulator cant hurt.

-Brent

[Reacher10]

I do have one I can take from an old Tx PCB but at this time I am leaving it as is until I get a reset to see if Mike's diag's can point to something.

Talk about random...two reboots in one day and none the next. I'll let it run all day everyday untill I get a reboot.

My batteries sure are getting a workout.

[RCHH]

Well mine is still running fine and this morning I left it in our south facing window that gets the sun all day long. Checked it just now and removed it as it had gotten seriously hot so I can safely discount reboots because of heat issues. My iphone4 which was sat alongside was so hot it's screen blacked out ...ooops! I had forgot they were there TBH! Lol!

[MikeB]

The Rev B. board has a direct connection to the 3.3V regulator , it is possible that at some particular input voltage , the
regulator , may start to oscillate and reset the system...adding the 47uf to pins 2 - 3 on the external regulator cant hurt.

That makes some sense as Kaos changed from 3s to 2s about the same time he started getting reboots.
My Rev B board has now been running OK for 4 hours. It is sitting in the conservatory in the "SUN". CPU temp. started at 9C (probably actual 22C), and has peaked at 43C.

I'll try a variable input and 'scope the regulator output later.

Mike.

[cmanley]

I just had another reboot today. This time flying a different model (FPV Tek Sumo) and using an external UHF transmitter module (Scherrer) with it's own battery instead of the FrSky JR module, and not flicking any switches.

Again luck was on my side as I normally fly kilometers out, but when then reboot happened I was close by and the failsafe managed to glide my wing into a bush on a rocky mountain slope and the wing only suffered some minor scratches. I should have video of the whole event. My only bad luck was loosing the car keys while retrieving my plane. I'm on vacation still, so I haven't been able to flash new firmware yet.

Anyway Mike, about the logging of the last reboot event: I was thinking about it today and think it would be best to have a multi-line history of reboot events because in panic, I may forcefully power off the radio to force RTH to take over. After the crash, I disabled all alerts and the splash screen, so now when a reboot happens, I may not even notice it.
Another thing I was thinking about was that it may not really be a reboot, but some other bug triggering the alert warnings to appear at an unexpected moment.

[MikeB]

I stopped my test after nearly 9 hours, no reboots. I just tried powering from a bench power supply, and running through the voltage range. The 3.3 volt line remained stable all the way down to 4.7 volts, no oscillations. This is on a Rev B board with the large regulator with a heatsink.

From Brent's comment above, it is likely that only some boards might suffer from an oscillation problem, so maybe mine isn't one of them.

I'll try this test on a prototype board with the small regulator without heatsink.

cmanley: Do you know if your board has the big regulator with heatsink? Adding multiline reboot history will take a bit of coding as the data will need to be written to the EEPROM somewhere.

Anyone who is getting these reboots, it is probably well worth adding that 47uF capacitor.

Mike.

[cmanley]

@Mike: Mine has the switching regulator as shown on the ersky9x website.
Did you have something move the sticks during your test?
Could you please describe/draw where to add the 47uF capacitor and what's it's max voltage?

[MikeB]

So this is an addon regulator to the Rev B board, acting as a pre-regulator to the 3.3V normal regulator? Any chance you can post a picture of your board?

The last version of the SKY board had a 5V pre-regulator as standard (SD card in middle of board). This is the version that Brent says needed the 47uF capacitor.

I'll see what I can do for a description of where the 47uF goes, unless Brent does it first! He has more pictures/diagrams already available.

I did move the sticks and press buttons occasionally, partly to check the REBOOT REASON screen.

Mike.

[Reacher10]

Mine has been on since 8AM, it's 4:44 PM...no reboots.

I did have something strange. I had the 3S life pack in it, I had it running for about 6 hours then I hopped on line, I left the radio in the living room, when I went to check it after a couple of hours the voltage on the screen was flashing 5.6V yet there was never an audio warning. When I plugged the pack in to charge it, it read like 2.8v per cell. No way it was down to 5.6V and I wonder why the audio voltage warning never came on, I would have heard it for sure.

I am not going to put the cap in it until I get a reboot and remember...it's been rock solid for months up until recently.

This really sucks...I can no way chance any of my planes especially the my 120 size cap and T-28...I flat out cannot afford to replace them...forget the safety aspect...I love my models. I got a killer deal on both ARFS...less then half price brand new.

Gotta go out and get some food to feed the unfed cat.

[cmanley]

@Mike: Attached are the photos of my board and regulator.

[MikeB]

That's the latest version of the board (Ver 3), and I can see the added 47uF capacitor already there.

Mike.

[ShowMaster]

Where is the cap located Mike, I have a ver 3 and want to check it.
SM


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk.

[kaos]

here is my Ver B board. the things that was changed since is I added another DHT module and a 8/16 ch switch. you can see it here: http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... ble+8%2F16
I flew my Q-bot micro with it today, no shut down - as expected, the shut down really does not happen very often and that is where the headache is. I have left it on from 8V now is 7.5V.

Here is a thought. If this is a hardware issue then people using open9X should also have encounter the same event. Any one here using open9X with Sky9x board? If this is a FW ERSKY9X issue then people using the open9x probably won't have a problem.

[Reacher10]

I'm an ERSKY man thru and thru. I would like to install openTx just to see but I need a reboot first so Mike's diag can be looked at.

I don't want to change a thing although yesterday I did install openTx but put ERSKY right back on. Now I'm wondering if perhaps what I had on there was corrupt and now I might have a clean fresh copy and never get a reboot again....that was a mistake.

Just gonna wait it out...still crappy weather here.

The CAP is that little round thing right above the chip on the ver 3 board.

[bertrand35]

Here is a thought. If this is a hardware issue then people using open9X should also have encounter the same event. Any one here using open9X with Sky9x board? If this is a FW ERSKY9X issue then people using the open9x probably won't have a problem.

I know at least Rob, Romolo, Scott, me, plus some people here in France. Perhaps Romolo knows how many people use openTx / sky9x boards, he has the compilation server stats.

No reboot reported until now. I cross the fingers, because this kind of bug (HW / FW ?) is really difficult and long to track, I am not sure I would have enough time to do the tracking as Mike does...

[kaos]

I have not followed the open9x very closely. Heard any one using Sky9x board with Open9x using either either 2S or 3S power source report any reboot event?

[Kilrah]

That's what Bertrand said just above - no reboots reported by openTx users so far.

Sent via mobile

[Rob Thomson]

I use opentx on sky9x. No issue ever!




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[kaos]

No reboot reported until now.

I guess I was confused by 'until now'.
Well, if no Sky9x board user with open9x ever encountered the reboot issue. most likely then it is the ERSKY9X doing it.
Today, I flew with mine from full charge (~8.1 V) for about an hr then left it on till now the volt is 7.2V, still no reboot. In the mean time the inactivity voice alarm sometimes running for 30 min in a row. the tx temperature is pretty constant around 26C. But I expected so too. It just happens so infrequently. From Dec '12 I 1st noticed to now, total happened less than 7-8 times.
On the day 1st noticed, it happened twice, then the ERSKY9x at the time was updating very frequently, and it never happened twice in a row, and becomes like now - very infrequently.

[MikeB]

To summarise the reboot changes/reporting:
Up to and including r162, an unexpected power off/on was not detected. Also, a WATCHDOG reset was not detected as such and the normal poweron sequence with splash screen occured.
With r163, the unexpected power off/on is detected, but both that and a watchdog reset are reported as "UNEXPECTED SHUTDOWN". In either case, the reboot should skip the splash screen and alarm checks.
With r164, the watchdog reset is also reported properly.

Until someone gets a reboot using r164, I won't know anything more specific than "it rebooted" to help locate the problem.

Mike.

[RCHH]

"Well, if no Sky9x board user with open9x ever encountered the reboot issue. most likely then it is the ERSKY9X doing it."
How so? Could be down to how your particular system in configured. I have never suffered from reboots. If I did, I would revert back to the TX state where I did not have the reboot and diagnose from there. One step at time until I replicate the problem. A lot of TX's here have been modified to the gunwales awfully quickly, and dare I say, not fully evaluated and tested as much as they should be. These things happen of course - even with mainstream products, but blaming the software is a bit harsh at this juncture. It may just be something in your hardware it does not like, or something you may not have got right.

[Reacher10]

Well thats the thing...we have no clue what so ever what the hell is causing it...I mean none. Could be the freakin moon phase for all we know. Maybe the bug is solder eating mites. Ive been flying my quad with it quite abit in the front yard with no problems. I have flown some planes a few weeks back, I took a chance.

In my case so many things were changed at once...HW+FW...Who T F knows? Regulator, Sd card holder, RTC chip was flashed, I put a battery in for that, amp bypass, DIY module....I painted the case...different neck strap. Bluetooth I added when I first got it.

Like I said...I'll stick it out with r164...It's on right now sitting on my living room floor.

Kaos, you did all your HW mods a while back, before any reboots, correct?

My board was stock up untill January and never had a reboot then the fun began.

[SR71]

Heard any one using Sky9x board with Open9x using either either 2S or 3S power source report any reboot event?

I am using open9x on a Sky9x board (the one with the discrete voltage regulator and big heath sink): no issues to be reported.
I have a LiFe battery, standard RF module (no FrSky) and no SD card installed.

[Reacher10]

I doubt this means anything but I noticed my RTC was behind by 26.5 hours and I couldn't set it then I noticed it wasn't running. I flashed it r163, then it was running fine and I was able to set it but I didn't need to, it had the correct time and date. I then put r164 back in it and it was then running fine with the correct time.

Go figure.

[kaos]

"Well, if no Sky9x board user with open9x ever encountered the reboot issue. most likely then it is the ERSKY9X doing it."
How so? Could be down to how your particular system in configured. I have never suffered from reboots. If I did, I would revert back to the TX state where I did not have the reboot and diagnose from there. One step at time until I replicate the problem. A lot of TX's here have been modified to the gunwales awfully quickly, and dare I say, not fully evaluated and tested as much as they should be. These things happen of course - even with mainstream products, but blaming the software is a bit harsh at this juncture. It may just be something in your hardware it does not like, or something you may not have got right.

I am not 'blaming', I am trying to figure this out by elimination. when I experienced the 1st reboot I was using nothing but SKY9x board with only BT plugged in and Haptic plugged without any mod. The wheel encoder was put in there long after that and after a few reboot.
Like I pointed out in the very beginning, when it 1st happened is in a period of time ERSKY9X was under frequent update (before Dec 20th 2012, I never had a reboot) and also is the time I changed from 3S LiFe to 2S LiPo. But, if there are many using 2S or 3S to power the SKY9X board and the group using ERSKY9X are the only group that experiencing reboot while the group using Open9x have none. That would imply the problem is more likely from fW than hardware. If both groups have experienced reboot then it could be either hardware or both FW may have an issue. Of course, with hardware mod, any reboot could be a simple bad solder point. That was pointed out to me the stock batt connector could be bad when I had nothing but plug in haptic and BT. So I changed the original connector to a servo connector and soldered to the back plate, and that did not keep it from happening either. Like the latest reboot 2 days ago. could it be my lipo connector and the connector soldered on the back plate is bad? I guess it could, but unlikely we all have a bad connector between the tx side and the lipo side. If it is a bad main power switch like many have reported the stock main power switch is bad. I would imagine both group of FW would also experiencing reboot from time to time. That is why I ask people with SKY9X board using Open9X any of them has this reboot experience.

[Rob Thomson]

I ly things I could suggest.

1. Try opentx. If it solves the issue. We know for certain something with the firmware not right.

2. If it still happens. Then it is a hardware issue.

Assuming that, then start swapping / removing bits!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[kaos]

That is what I am thinking. I will be flying micro only for a while. if it happens again, if the micro drops it won't hurt much. But like Reacher10, I would like to see another reboot with R164 so we can give Miike some data to work with. Anotehr reasons is I have now 16 flying, tuned up models in the Tx. It is going to be hard to swap FW for 16 models, some of them are cp heli which is very sensitive to slight subtrim change. and alll the audio swithes/file names have to be changes that is about hundred of reporgraming audio files.
I did not keep track on which date what was implemented/modified on ERSKY9X. On mine, it started only on the day I reported it on Dec. 20th 2012. May be Mike can take a look the versions immediately before that day see where the changes may be the issue, assuming it is from FW.
Last night the Tx got down to 7.2V before I went to bed. I started it again today now it is at 7.0 still no reboot. As I said all this time since 1st reboot, this is going to be a hard one to catch because it just happens so infrequently. :-S