EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

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bob195558
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EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by bob195558 »

E A S A banding RC Hobby.jpg
There are a new set of rules which have recently be published by E A S A (the European version of the CAA and FAA).
In response to a series of Drone scares, and fears about their safety, they have decided to release a massive document of
safety regulations called the prototype.
The Frist Document is 72 pages long and the second is a 60 page explanatory document (these are not half assed regulations).
Unfortunately, it targets us DIY guys, the people who actually put in the most effort and care when it comes to safety.
(http://droneinsider.org/new-easa-drone- ... -industry/)

Here is some Youtube videos about E A S A new set of rules:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdsVdOUuuk#t=59.311271)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZhfQox6dDo)

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by OctavioS »

https://www.change.org/p/https-www-easa ... m=copylink
Sign the petition. This regulation is really limiting for europe. For what i understood there is a separate petition for UK citizens.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

We can all thank the idiots that like to fly above the clouds as they say.
A couple months ago I've read that there was an idiot flying INSIDE the perimeter of the Lisbon International airport, and was spotted by a military aircraft landing on Runway 03.
Also last summer the pilots from a Ryanair aircraft also saw a drone fly close to their aircraft at about 1000 meters high while approaching Faro Airport in Portugal.
Also a while ago there was an idiot flying his drone right on the approach area of runway 28 at Faro airport. He posted a video flying at 1500 meters high. I wrote a comment on his video letting him know that his drone was right on the approach, in case he didn't know. he wrote back saying that he checked and on that day the airplanes were landing from the other side.
The stupid idiot didn't even think that if the airplanes land from the other side, they also take off from the other side, putting him and his stupid drone right on their path. :(

This is the main reason why one day we won't be able to do any RC flying.

And I agree, that for FPV, except perhaps drone racing at low altitude, the people should at least make a course to learn the rules and to know how to behave while flying. If you want to share the airspace with REAL pilots, you have to at least know the rules, so you don't put anyone in danger.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

This is a TV show, but it could very well happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKIKP4gLl2c
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

And something real:
Safety rule - Do not fly models over people or property. Certainly not in populated areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLytQLJ9qw
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by bob195558 »

Should then (is the answer to fix the problem) all flying needs to be prohibited ? :?:

WE will lose good times like this: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uicZtqTYITU).
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

As some people don't really care about the lives of other people seating on an aircraft, or even standing on the ground. Some people do not respect the privacy of other people.
In my opinion, there are 2 ways that might prevent someone from getting really hurt, or even killed.
1 - education. Go back to allow RC model flying only in designated places like club fields.
2- Ban it completely, which is what the authorities seem to want to do at the moment.

My personal opinion, is that the use of cameras on the RC models should be forbidden.. That would limit the altitude and distance those things fly. That is the only way people are going to respect the line of sight rule.
Exception could perhaps be the quad racing. They could create a federation that would make rules and educate its members.
Apart from that, cameras not allowed.. I think this would be better than banning the hobby completely.

The people that make the rules do not know the difference between normal model flying and drones and they are putting everything on the same pot, and therefore restrictions will also apply to normal model flying unfortunately. I fly normal models, and because of some idiots I probably won't be able to enjoy my hobby in the future. :(

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote: Apart from that, cameras not allowed.. I think this would be better than banning the hobby completely.
Quite the contrary, that would make sure it does because you'll now have all FPV flyers against you.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

Kilrah, unfortunately your freedom starts where mine ends..
I'm getting really p'ed off with the fact that I might not be able to fly even my smallest models in the near future because of a bunch of idiots doing a lot of s**t. They don't have respect for their fellow RC flyer. As a matter a fact they don't have respect for anyone else but their own back sides.
I am quite sure that ALL the models that were involved in near misses with REAL aircraft with REAL pilots and people inside had a camera on board. Even worse, I bet all of them were being flown through a camera.
There is another solution then. Make the strict rules only for people flying FPV. Please leave the others alone. This is a hobby nearly 100 years old, and there was never a problem like this one. Now it is endangered since people decided to put cameras on the models and start doing s**t.
I don't care if you or anyone else is against what I think, I couldn't give the slightest... just leave my hobby alone.
Also, In Europe if people kept to the legal RF power on their video system ( 25mW?) They wouldn't be able to go that faraway anyway.

Most of the people flying out there have no knowledge of the air rules, unless they have a pilot's license. As I said, if people want to share the same airspace with REAL aircraft with REAL people inside, they should go to school and take a licence like real PILOTS did.
The idiots have to be stopped one way or another, and as far as I can see, for the authorities we are all considered idiots because their laws will include normal model (or should I say normal drone :o ) flying as well.
Regulate only the FPV then, not the models without cameras. They don't cause any problems as they can't get that far anyway.

You are free to express your opinion, so am I. :)

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote: I'm getting really p'ed off with the fact that I might not be able to fly even my smallest models in the near future because of a bunch of idiots doing a lot of s**t.
And I'm getting really p'd off that people like you say "just ban cameras" instead of trying to find a proper solution that works for everybody.

By saying that you're doing to others exatly the same thing you don't want to happen to you.

FPV flyers have fun flying FPV becasue it's awesome, if you don't want to do the effort of trying to integrate them and are OK to suggest just killing their their fun then they certainly won't help you keep yours.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

As I said, they should regulate the FPV only. The normal model flying, when done properly and in the right places, does not cause any problems.
As I said, the exception should be quad racing when done properly.

Kilrah, you are also free to express your opinion. So am I. So, if you're p'ed off with me because of my opinion, I don't care as I am entitled to express mine as well.
It is just a matter of time until a drone flown by an idiot hits a plane. That near miss near Faro airport could have been the one me and my family were in. I did fly on that same flight, just another day. The authorities will do whatever it takes to keep the skies safe. If they can't control the idiots, they will ban model flying altogether.
And if they do it it won't be because the normal model flyers.
The people that will suffer with this are the ones that do the right thing, as the one that do s**t will continue to do it illegally anyway. If I can't for example fly over 50 meters I won't do it.. What about you?

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote:The normal model flying, when done properly and in the right places, does not cause any problems.
Neither does FPV, and regulations are there already, if you cause an accident you'd be in trouble whether FPV or not.

People who do stupid things already aren't allowed to do them. No amount of extra regulation will change that, they're not following those that exist and won't follow any new one either.
All you can do is punish the offenders and everything's already there to do it.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

The authorities have to do something before a disaster happens, not after..
And if what it takes is to ban model flying, they will do it. None of this was a problem before the arrival of FPV and some idiots that came with it.
They could for example allow model flying only in designated ( and approved) areas, and the people should have to be in a club and federated in the model flying federation. That means they would have an insurance and they would fly in a safe place.
Long range FPV should not he allowed in my opinion. Maximum altitude should be limited depending on the place you're in.

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Kilrah »

The authorities can't do anything, just like they can't make everybody respect speed limits on the road.

Even if they banned model flying completely some people, especially the problematic ones would still buy or build models and fly them.
If you have to be in a club there will still be people that fly in other places anyway.
Long range FPV is already banned pretty much everywhere, yet people still do it.
Maximum altitudes are already put in place in many locations, and there will always be people who don't respect them.

Again everything is already there, the only thing that can be done is try to educate people and detect/punish the offenders more consistently.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Carbo »

Look at the bright side: There will be a lot of drone hunting jobs in the future. That´s because a lot of the lawful people will move to the dark side. So some will get paid for hunting drones legally, sounds like a lot of fun, no matter which side you´re on ;)

(May contain satire)
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

Hmm, can't afford a go-pro camera? Go hunt one :). Sounds good. :D

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Re: RE: Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Rob Thomson »

Kilrah wrote:The authorities can't do anything, just like they can't make everybody respect speed limits on the road.

Even if they banned model flying completely some people, especially the problematic ones would still buy or build models and fly them.
If you have to be in a club there will still be people that fly in other places anyway.
Long range FPV is already banned pretty much evberywhere, yet people still do it.
Maximum altitudes are already put in places in many locations, and there will always be people who don't respect them.

Again everything is already there, the only thing that can be done is try to educate people and detect/punish the offenders more consistently.
Agreed.

Rules are already in place. You can ban it.. But you won't stop it.

Only solution is effective prosecution of idiots.

Silly thing is.. The vast majority these days fly mini quads. This is great.

A. You don't go high. The fun is low down.
B. You tend to only use 25mw.

This is good. Means more people will by default obey the rules.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by ReSt »

jhsa wrote: They could for example allow model flying only in designated ( and approved) areas, and the people should have to be in a club and federated in the model flying federation. That means they would have an insurance and they would fly in a safe place.
João
Sorry João, I have to contradict!

I do live in a area, away from any flight zone, where there are no flying clubs you simply can join. And the ones that exist are just far enough away to not visit them. So it is not realistic to simply join a club nearby and everything is fine.
And in Germany, you already MUST have an insurance for model flying (law since 2005).

And you know as well as me, those who don't take care of the already existing rules won't do it either when you release new ones.

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Re: RE: Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

ReSt wrote:
And you know as well as me, those who don't take care of the already existing rules won't do it either when you release new ones.

Reinhard
That is true. I have at least one in my club that when I asked him what he will do if we get the 100 meter law, and he said he would ignore it.
I don't think most of the people comply with having a spotter with trainer cable, fly only line of sight, and use only 25mW RF power for video transmission.. Actually I doubt someone comply with all these at the same time. :)

I think you only need a couple more reports from pilots here in Europe for the purposed law to become our law.. :(
So, unfortunately this is in the hands of the idiots that don't care about the law, about you, or about me..
Enjoy the hobby safely while you can..

João
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by bob195558 »

Simon Dale is working to help preserve our hobby: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMKwYWlSkMY).
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Carbo »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl-bhsTa5rs

Another one got shocked about this
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by Mormont »

Yeah, I heard about this petition and as I see, those regulations are getting tougher and tougher with each law passed in the Congress.
In the US, there are now tight regulations that drone owners must abide by at all times. I heard about it here : http://3dinsider.com/drone-safety/

The two US organizations below are involved in the safety aspect of Unmanned Aircraft Systems.

1) The Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI)
2) The Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA)

And all of those structures are touched with this initiative.
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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

If people don't stop doing stupid things, it will get even worse.. They will ruin the hobby for everybody.
In Portugal for example, every bleefing week there are reports of drones crossing the flight path of planes that are coming to land. A couple Weeks ago, one had to dive to avoid colliding with a drone when approaching the Cascais Airport, near Lisbon. A few months ago there was a drone flying inside the perimeter of Lisbon International Airport.. There are similar reports every week..
Like this, Authorities will end up banning model flying all together, and I can't blame them for that.. :(

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by MikeB »

EASA have extended the deadline for comments on the most recent proposals to be 15th September.
The documents are quite large, but you could look for the word "model" to find specific areas where they have referred to model aircraft.

See:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-lib ... pa-2017-05

It looks to me that all options propose a height limit of 120m (400 feet) for model aircraft etc.
So that will stop thermal soaring, I don't see much activity below 400 feet.

So, 5 days to make a comment!
It wasn't too difficult to do, but you do have to register to make a comment (https://hub.easa.europa.eu/security/?ap ... t=register).

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Re: EASA maybe wanting to ruin our RC Hobby all together !

Post by jhsa »

As far as I know, here in Germany, you can fly well over 100 meters if you are at your club's field. And only until 100 meters if you are somewhere else..

There were some new rules coming out last week, but I still didn't translate them.. I think, what they are is if you are not at the club's filed but want to fly over 100 meters, you need to do a test and "pay a certain amount of money". something like 25 or 27 Euros.. This smells like government wanting to take money from the people... as always :)
They are doing it for the wrong reasons.. If they would say, that you would have to show that you know how to behave on a controlled airspace before you can fly your model, that would be ok.. But it looks like that the only important thing is the money..,To hell with safety :(

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