Inside the Taranis -

Hardware help and support for the FrSky Taranis

Inside the Taranis -

Postby Scott Page » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:32 am

Here is a look inside the FrSky Taranis -- I demonstrate how to change the throttle from the left stick to right stick, and back.

Video from : youtu.be
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:35 am

Good video and good info.
I do have a stick end question. Sort of late in the design but this is the first closeup pictures I've seen.
Can the stick ends be exchanged for a less knobby end. I'm sure this it great for thumb fliers but the pinch fliers need more conventional thinner end.
Also what's the case screws situation? Are they able to withstand removal and insertion without stripping out plastic like the 9x?

Has the haptic option been added or setup for modification later? Will the FW support haptic? Very useful in a multi engine flying field with gas and electric flying at the same time or just many has/nitro planes flying. My tests with a talking er9x and sky9x system found that the haptic it great support for the voice announce in certain situations.
Again. I'm sorry for so many questions so late in the game but without regular reports from the beta testers and no inputs requested, one has to assume this is being evaluated also.
SM


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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Rob Thomson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:05 am

Can you add it to the wiki?

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Kilrah » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:09 am

ShowMaster wrote:Can the stick ends be exchanged for a less knobby end. I'm sure this it great for thumb fliers but the pinch fliers need more conventional thinner end.

The sticks ends are standard, those huge thingys are Scott's own replacements.

ShowMaster wrote:Also what's the case screws situation? Are they able to withstand removal and insertion without stripping out plastic like the 9x?

YES. Mine probably have a good 100 cycles by now :D (only the 2 middle ones, I never put the others back for obvious reasons)

ShowMaster wrote:Has the haptic option been added or setup for modification later?

Nope. Will need to be a user mod.
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby jhsa » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:52 pm

Shame that no one thought about it as it is one of the mods that people most do on the 9x :(
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Rob Thomson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:25 pm

True - but not used often once you have audio :)

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:35 pm

Please everyone involved with the Taranis development, "find a way to add Haptic later"!
This tx was born out of an idea of open FW and design. As long as there is an open pin on the processor and the willingness to add the option to the FW, that concept will be carried on. Frsky did us all a favor as well as a smart business move, to take advantage of all the years of volunteered design and FW development already done on this radio. It may have been redesigned and had many welcomed upgrades added in the final design, but it was born and matured on the forums long before Frsky came on board. In fact, adding the telemetry option to the original er9x and 9x may be why Frsky became so popular. I have the highest respect for the Frsky link and telemetry protocol and mating it to the 9x and sky9x makes it even better.
I'm confused why a feature like the haptic that was originally added as a aid for noisy flying areas or for those unfortunate enough to be losing or have lost their hearing was eliminated? Unless this design was created for just the younger flyers?
Please add the option as a DIY if its too late for a needed production addition.

Again. I would have brought this up months ago if the features list had been posted for some open discussion prior to or furring beta testing. Spektrums Dx8 has this as a stock feature so it's a recognized feature.

When will the Taranis schematics be released for the DIYers?
I'm ready to buy a Taranis and in the spirit of this forum, make necessary changes.
SM


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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:43 pm

Rob Thomson wrote:True - but not used often once you have audio :)

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Not to be argumentative but you're implying the all flyers have perfect hearing? That or that the loud audio won't bother fellow flyers, much like a loud cell phone talker in a restaurant?
With both options available one can tailor the alarms for the flying conditions.
I use both since I have a choice.
Kind of like mode 1 or mode two. We have a choice.


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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Rob Thomson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:51 pm

Never fear. There is a convenient serial port we can use. Haptic will happen :)

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby mpjf01 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:02 pm

Does it have bluetooth built in? If not does the serial port send telemetry data like the existing FRSKY rf modules?

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Rob Thomson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:08 pm

Nope. No bluetooth.

I suspect that the upgrade route would be to design a daughter board that uses the serial port to send / receive some sort of Protocol - essentially the Cpu ob the daughter board will have its own firmware, and do the work.

So technically.... anything could be done!

But leta give the dev team time. Lots to sort before that.

Rob

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:32 pm

Great news Rob! I knew we wouldn't be let down. I actually use the haptic for general reminders and the voice and siren for final warnings like, land now your pushing your luck!
It gives the others a break until the final siren.

About BT,
I did purchase the new RN-52 audio BT module in hopes of getting help interfacing it to my sky9x at some point. The plan is to use it to send audio via BT to my Ipod or a BT earpiece so I can use the audio at any level without the speaker bing loud.
I tried the RN-42 BT but I don't own any android devices it'll pair to.
The RN-52 comes stock as a RX Devi e so it has to be reprogrammed to tx audio to another RN-52 or BT device.
It may be worth looking into by the Taranis tech team later as a BT option?
It may eliminate the need for haptic as long as it doesn't interfere with the telemetry or range of the tx? That was never discussed much when the RN/52 sky board offered it! I removed mine because I couldn't use it so far.

The good news is all these wish list feature will keep the forum alive and moving forward if perhaps the 9x energy moves towards the Taranis once it's on the market.
Thanks for the good news on features updates. Now if I only could own a Taranis.
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Rob Thomson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:37 pm

Imho - we must not rush to add mods.

If we design a proper serial interface Protocol , we will be able to do anything.

The thing not to do is to use the serial port for bluetooth - no matter how tempting and easily it can be done.

With a multiplexed protocol, we get lots more scope, and make an easy route for future enhancements.

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby rdeanchurch » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:14 pm

One more vote for haptic. One very handy use is for center position on pots or trim. I don't need a voice prompt when adjusting a pot to tell me it's at center. Also true for throttle stick when used for brake and electric motor during landing phase. I like it to get my attention when a voice prompt is about to start.

Of course I'm old and hearing is shot from being on a rifle team in the Army before ear protection was even thought about.

But as Rob pointed out we need strategy that will allow future growth without major changes every few weeks.
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby G550Ted » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:27 pm

I, too, have to wave my hand for an early haptic mod!

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Kilrah » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:39 pm

ShowMaster wrote:Please everyone involved with the Taranis development, "find a way to add Haptic later"!


It was already said many times that haptic mod is easy and would get in when the more important stuff is done. There are free pins accessible on pads, you can connect a mosfet and your motor in 5 minutes. No need for a serial protocol and add-on board for something so simple.

HOWEVER: I'm actually pretty happy there's no haptic out of the box, as that leaves a free pin that may serve for other things. Those who want haptic may use it for the haptic mod, those who don't care about it but may prefer adding an extra RF module or such will be able to use it for that instead :)
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby jhsa » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:23 pm

You can already have 2 RF modules ;) I know it's just an example :)
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Kilrah » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:27 pm

I meant a 3rd one using direct SPI ;)
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:19 pm

imho
Why was it eliminated, who made the decision it was not important. So much eary discussion on the forum to get that option in er9x along with the speaker and then the voice. I'm not looking to drag out this discussion as the decisions have been made and that's what will be delivered. It's too bad it was thought of as a low priority option after all the effort involves to get it in the first place.
It's like not having vibrate on your cell phone, it's has it's advantages. The comment that it can be added but that may sacrifice other options is disappointing.
The forum exists because the retail systems were hard wired and you accept what's offered. We've been spoiled being able to request it here and it just happens.
I'm happy with what the Taranis will offer, just disappointed that going retail eliminated some of the magic that got us all here.
So hard of hearing flyers will be taking a step backwards I guess, or giving up another option if they want haptic later?
Not being great at processor knowledge I must ask. If the 9x modified and the Sky9x boards and processors are able to support all these features, what has been added that eats up all the pins on the new processor pins?
I don’t want this to become a large debate but had to state my disappointment. Better now then rag about it when it’s discovered after the fact when it’s not there upon delivery.
SM
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Rob Thomson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:24 pm

We had this discussion a few months back. No need to drag it all up again :)

I font think it was even considered / just passed through the net. Nothing intentional. Just happened.

But hey. Aa kilrah said. It will be a simple mod - so no problem.

Think of it this way. You get a SUPERB new radio - and can still do some basic mods to make yours stand out from the crowds!

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby jhsa » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:38 pm

yeah, just release the damn thing so they can start working on my HORUS soon ;) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Till then I will enjoy both my beloved 9x's.. There's a lot of heart and soul in them. and a lot of work to get them where they are now.
Even after HORUS is released they won't be forgotten. My 9x's will always be my best radios ever.. There's only one more mod or two to be done to put them up there hardwarewise together with most of the big name radios.. One is to give them better gimbals. the other, a better processor which I already have thanks to a member of this forum. Just waiting for Mbanzi to find out what happened to his radio and fix it.
as long as the developers keep supporting the 9x, these radios will continue growing. What a hell of a ride it has been, and more to come I hope.

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Kilrah » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:59 pm

For whatever reason FrSky didn't put a vibrator motor in their radio (intentional or omission, no idea). As there was no haptic motor, the relevant menu entries were removed, as it would be stupid and confusing to have menu entries for something that the radio doesn't have. End of story really.

Without the team's interventions the radio would have had no USB port, so no easy way to reflash it, to access the EEPROM with C9X, or to access the SD card. The external module would have had to be removed every time you'd have been using a model with the internal RF, with much annoyance when you regularly use both. Some common RF modules woulnd't have been useable because of an omission in the circuit. The external module couldn't have been used simultaneously with the internal one to extend the number of channels or provide redundancy. The serial port that allows for connecting a bluetooth module or any other kinds of powerful extensions would have been removed. The gimbals probably would have been of the same grade than those of the 9x instead of being the awesomeness they are now.

All of these are major points that affect the core function and comfort of the radio. There was enough concentration required on these points to get them right that haptic got overlooked in the possible improvements, or wasn't requested because there's a point where you just have to get it out instead of endlessly going back to revise things.
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby jhsa » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Kilrah wrote:The gimbals probably would have been of the same grade than those of the 9x instead of being the awesomeness they are now.


I'm waiting for some of that "awesomeness" for both my 9x's :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:57 pm

Wow, retail intervention sucks!
Thanks to the team I guess is in order. Who knew how far it wandered from what had been almost perfect when the forum designed a tx.
Maybe we can buy the new better case and sticks and SkyNorth could be talked into a skyboard drop in?
For us, win win. I guess that actually could happen later on to the retail tx like it did to the 9x?
One positive note is the mod squad will not be decommissioned with the release of this tx. I wonder what it'll be like a few months when the mod squad jumps on it?
I have a bad feeling that schematics will not be available?
SM



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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Flaps 30 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:09 pm

ShowMaster wrote:I wonder what it'll be like a few months when the mod squad jumps on it?

It would be a small pile of broken bits. :twisted:
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby Kilrah » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:20 pm

ShowMaster wrote:Maybe we can buy the new better case and sticks and SkyNorth could be talked into a skyboard drop in?

But why??
Apart from haptic and a rotary encoder the Taranis has everything the sky9x board has. Do you really want someone to design a new board just because of that?? Seems like you've got an extreme fixation on that haptic detail...

ShowMaster wrote:Who knew how far it wandered from what had been almost perfect when the forum designed a tx.

You got it wrong, it's the exact opposite. FrSky initially intended to make a low cost, 9x-style radio. Thanks to community input it became just as good as what had been thought out for sky9x.

Please read the posts a bit more carefully...
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby jhsa » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:37 pm

For some people that might be important as for other people other features might be important.
For me for example, I like the rotary encoder a lot.. that's one of the reasons I'm waiting for the next radio.
Now, i think that if there is no haptic it can be added later, maybe even a few days after release ;) The encoder could as well, but there is no space really for the kind of encoder I would like to have. I do like the encoder I have on the 9x..
Hmm, I'm starting to think that it will be difficult to find a radio that is more perfect than "our" 9x because it was built by us for us. It's a very personal piece of kit and we've made it how we want it to be. So, I guess we can't expect any other commercial tx to be as personal as the radio we put together for ourselves. I'm proud to say that i built my radio the way I imagined it to be perfect for me. And again thank you to all the developers that made it possible, if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be here flying with one of the best radios ever :) You spoiled us. But in this case I think that is a good thing. The more I read about other radios, the more I want to keep my 9x's and make them even better ;)
Just my 2c
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby MikeB » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:20 pm

ShowMaster wrote:I have a bad feeling that schematics will not be available?

I'm not sure whether FrSky intend to release the schematics, but they have provided the developers with them so, if they are not released, at least some of us can probably answer questions regarding areas of the circuitry.

The serial port connector is accessible in the battery bay, and includes ground and power, so adding something to this may well be relatively easy.

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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby mpjf01 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:09 am

I am not sure whether this was answered or not when I asked above. Does the Taranis output telemetry data in the same way as is currently available from FRSKY telemetry RF modules? I'm trying to understand whether this facility is being continued in the new radio in its released form, or not, because if it is not available I will not be able to use my current systems.
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Re: Inside the Taranis -

Postby ShowMaster » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:14 am

Thank you everyone for keeping the dialog going. This was my intention, to shake the knowledge tree a little for the users.
It hasn't been made clear yet if service stations will be established in covenant locations in every country. Many will like and use them if they are local, but many are more then qualified to repair their own if parts and info is available. I'm sure any established service station will be busy and not suffer from the DIYers.
I currently repair many brands of radios for club members for cost of parts and maybe a hamburger. I have FCC licenses for both commercial and amateur service and have enjoyed doing repairs for many years. I have a large collection of radio schematics.
I'm challenged writing the code for the modern radios but not with hardware repairs. Having the support of the forum has kept many flying when they killed their TXs.
It's comforting to read that the support is still here as we move into new exciting systems.
Thank you
SM


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