Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Cant get your radio to work? General Hardware issues?
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adam
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Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by adam » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:53 pm

Hi all,

I recently performed some repairs on my Taranis X9D Plus. This involved replacing the LCD screen, which had a line of dead pixels, as well as a broken antenna. The new LCD screen was soldered on without any trouble, and I decided to replace the antenna with a RP-SMA connector directly soldered on (i.e. no u.fl connector). I was happy to see that both repairs had no issues, and that I was also getting good SWR readings with several different antennas.

After completing the repairs I once again opened the Taranis in order to add some hot glue, and in my haste I disconnected the two main ribbon cables while the NiMH battery was still connected. Now, the radio will not turn on, and it is unable to be recognized by my PC when connected via USB. I should also note that when I disconnected the ribbon cables, I did not have an antenna connected to the RP-SMA connector.

After having read numerous posts on this forum, especially those by the extremely helpful MikeB, it appears that I've likely damaged the microprocessor and will require a new mainboard. My two main questions are: 1) Are there specific components I should be assessing with the multimeter in order to definitively determine the mainboard is indeed damaged, and 2) is it possible that I also caused irreparable harm to the backboard by not having an antenna connected when disconnecting the two ribbon cables, while having the battery still connected?

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts and advice!

Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by adam » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:18 pm

Hi all,

I wanted to provide an update, just in case anyone else makes the same mistake as I did.

Disconnecting the ribbon cables of the Taranis X9D before first removing the battery will damage your mainboard, rendering it inoperable. The general consensus is that it is the microprocessor that is damaged. This was also confirmed by the technicians at Aloft Hobbies. The solution is to replace the mainboard, which I recently did, and my Taranis became operable once again.

Regarding my second question, about whether the backboard would suffer damage if no antenna was attached to the radio (for those who perform this modification), the answer is no. My backboard did not suffer any damage and was fully operable with after the replacement mainboard was installed.

I hope my experience may prove useful to others in the future!

Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by kalle123 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:43 pm

Hi Adam.

Just had that remark here viewtopic.php?f=96&t=9318#p120577

Obviously can not be mentioned to often ...

br KH

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by wapfpv » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:18 am

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the info, unfortunately I did the mistake of removing and reinstalling the ribbons with the battery connected on my Taranis X9D plus. I will now order for the mainboard :(

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by MikeB » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:15 am

When it happened to me (on a prototype board), only the processor was damaged. I was able to replace the processor and the board worked again.
A check for a damaged processor is to connect the USB to a PC (with the Taranis power off). If you get a STM processor in DFU mode come up on the PC, then the processor is probably OK, otherwise it is damaged.

Mike.
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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by adam » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:17 pm

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your comments. I had followed your suggestion in a previous thread of connecting the USB to a PC, which led me to assume it was likely the microprocessor that had become damaged. I wasn't sure I was up to the task of replacing it myself, so the mainboard replacement was the easier option.

I also agree that these kinds of things can't be said enough! Learning from other's mistakes has certainly saved my bacon on more than one occasion.

Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by kalle123 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:44 pm

adam wrote:I wasn't sure I was up to the task of replacing it myself, so the mainboard replacement was the easier option.
But you could give it a try ;)

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=9160

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by adam » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:49 pm

adam wrote:
Regarding my second question, about whether the backboard would suffer damage if no antenna was attached to the radio (for those who perform this modification), the answer is no. My backboard did not suffer any damage and was fully operable with after the replacement mainboard was installed.
Hi again,

Just as an update to the update, it looks like not having an antenna attached to the radio did in fact damage the backboard/internal XJT module of the Taranis. While SWR and RSSI values initially looked good indoors, range tests performed outdoors yielded poor results where the connection would drop at approximately 20 m/65 ft. To test if my assumptions were correct, I ordered an external XJT module and range tests using the standard 2.5dbi antenna yielded RSSI values of 47-50 at a distance of 115 m/375 ft. An X8R receiver was used for both tests.

Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by Jeffwhu » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:14 pm

Hi

My x9d plus, having range problems, on inspection Yvette part of antenna wire has come away from the board with the pad and part of the trace, I think it may be salvageable by soldering a bit further down the trace.
If that doesn't work can I buy the small board where antenna solders to, if so what is the name of that board?
Keep finding backboard but the other board is not shown

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by Jeffwhu » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:08 pm

Can't buy just the part that antenna solders to, have to buy complete backboard, if you find the smaller part for sale would you send me a link

Thanks

Jeff

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by MikeB » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:25 pm

https://www.robotbirds.co.uk/default/ra ... n-xjt.html.

Check how easy it will be to unsolder the existing board.

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by Kilrah » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:09 pm

The Plus does not use this part, that was only for the first A versions. On later ones most of the module circuitry is on the backboard itself, and there is only a small secondary board with just the RF components.
That is what isn't available separately.

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by bob195558 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:41 am

Could maybe, purchase the external XJT module.
This would be an option you could do: (http://alofthobbies.com/frsky-xjt-jr-gr ... odule.html).
XJT Module_a.jpg
external XJT Module
XJT Module_a.jpg (43.72 KiB) Viewed 1714 times
XJT Module_.jpg
what's inside the external XJT Module
Taranis Plus backboard with XJT.jpg
FrSky Taranis Plus Backboard + internal XJT module
(http://alofthobbies.com/frsky-taranis-p ... odule.html)
If you are thinking of purchasing and live in the EU, then you may want to purchase items in the EU.

Bob B.
Last edited by bob195558 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by Jeffwhu » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:42 pm

Hi all

What can I say......I bow to your superior knowledge

Thanks guys

Jeff

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by Jeffwhu » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:03 pm

Hi

Been persisting with the board, got antenna soldered further along trace, the result is varying range some times would go 150 m do a circle back and next time round only get 30-40m then complete signal loss

Cheers

Jeff

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Sun May 28, 2017 6:34 pm

"SPITZIN' SPARTIN' FILLIBARTIN' FRICKIN' FRACKIN' DIRTY RATZEN FRATZIN' SON OF A 3-TOED COPPER-BOTTOMED FOOL!" :oops:


I just got bitten by this particular design bug, on my brand new Taranis Plus SE. Doing some side by side testing with my old Taranis; I unplugged the battery from the WRONG TARANIS before plugging cables back in... :roll:

Welp, guess it's time for DigiKey to take some more of my money.


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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by MikeB » Sun May 28, 2017 9:57 pm

When that happened to me (early prototype), only the processor was damaged. I replaced that and it then worked again (and is still working fine).

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Mon May 29, 2017 5:32 am

Image


Oh, yeah... I remember reading about this boobytrap in the Plus ages ago, so have religiously unplugged the battery. I got ahead of myself doing some exploratory surgery and now I'm paying the price. It's just annoying that it's my new shiny Plus SE, which I've already started to Mod.


I plugged it into USB and confirmed I have 3.3v on Vcc but no signs of life, so I knew it was the STM32 immediately; I already have the mainboard out & prepped. My preferred method when there are tiny components right next to the CPU is to forget the Hot Air and ChipQuick; they're messy and don't allow you much control.


Image


Before we start we're going to put a slip of paper under the coin cell on the mainboard for safety's sake, then pop it back in the holder. I've learned the hard way; a coin cell loose on the bench is as good as lost, and if you put it in your parts bin, it invariably gets shorted out against something metal and gets dead.

The safest place in the world for the coin cell is right back in the holder.



Image

First, you need a fresh blade in your X-Acto knife; this method requires a steady hand and smooth cutting action. Cut right against the resin body of the chip in a single fluid motion from one side of the chip to the other with moderate pressure; practice on a junk board and you'll get the right amount of pressure after just a few tries. When you're cutting right, it will feel just like unzipping a zipper.


Image

Now we're ready to remove the cut off legs...


Image

... and the trick for that, as with everything else soldering related, is good flux. If you can find the 64-022 in one of the last remaining Radio Shacks, it's a good Rosin flux (I loathe working with the halogenated fluxes so popular with lead-free solder) that will make the legs come off easy while prepping the board in the same step.


Image

A nice little line of flux...


Image

... and a lightly tinned iron at 340-380°C to keep from burning up the board. Watch carefully and when the solder starts to wet, wipe the legs off 2-5 at a time VERY gently. If you feel ANY resistance, STOP and let the solder melt again.

Wipe the legs off on your wet sponge as you work your way around...


Image


... and you'll be rewarded with a nicely tinned set of pads ready to solder to.


I'll stop back and finish this little "DIY" once I have my new STM32 in hand. :D

Cheers,

mnem
*Toddles off to ded*
Last edited by mnementh on Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by MikeB » Mon May 29, 2017 8:13 am

I'd suggest removing the RTC battery while working on the soldering as well. It connects directly to CPU pins.

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Mon May 29, 2017 6:06 pm

It is disconnected; I always slip a scrap of paper under the coin cell before I start work. Doesn't everybody?

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:03 pm

Okay... so I've fixed my Plus SE, and after a long battle with the Ghost in the Machine and her Serial Comms Daemon Army, I've successfully flashed to 2.2.0. Now I'm trying to figure out why what I did worked.

Ever since I upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10/64 (I know; I know... "UPGRADE? :lol: ") I haven't been able to use Companion in DFU mode, even though I long ago upgraded to OpenTX 2.xx on my original Plus using Win7. I didn't give it much thought; figuring it was something dumb that Windoze broke, & it would probably work again when I installed a newer version of Companion.

DFU-UTIL FAIL.PNG

Now fast-forward to me trying to resurrect my Plus SE after frying the STM32, and even after installing a brand-new copy of Companion 2.2.0, and making double-damn sure everything points to the correct folders AND starting a new Radio Profile and making sure to Uninstall EVERYTHING STM32 related in Device Manager, even the"Hidden" stuff, and then reinstalling with Zadig, it still fails with this error message on BOTH the new Plus SE and my original Plus.

So, after banging my head against this wall til 2AM, today I figure there may be something wrong with how Windoze is handling every version of DFU-Util I have on the machine with numerous versions of Companion, and I go look for a fresh copy direct from the DFU-Util SourceForge. I notice that they now have V0.9/64-Bit version, so I get a copy of that.

I set up Companion 2.2.0 so it directs to the new version, and BAM! It WORKS! Not only that, it works with my old profiles on 2.2.0, it also works with older versions going back to 2.0.12. I can read from my original Plus on ALL of them in DFU mode.

DFU-UTIL 0.7 vs 0.9.PNG

Out of curiosity I do a side-by-side comparison between the two version of DFU-Util, and I see that there is a second instance of all the device handles listed as "UNDEFINED" returned by V0.7 that is not returned by V0.9/64-bit.

So, curious to see if I can write as well as read in DFU Mode, I back up everything from my original Plus, and I flash it to 2.2.0 in DFU mode successfully. Then, I do the SAME side by side comparison between DFU-Util V0.7 vs V0.9 as above on my Plus SE, and get identical results aside from the Ser #s.

Feeling much more hopeful about my newly resurrected Plus SE, I flash it to 2.2.0 and everything works perfectly. It comes up immediately, and even Amber is there; the only hangup is the SD CARD WARNING because I haven't built a new SD Card image with the correct version number yet.I'm tickled pink with prrple polka dots, and I have my new SE back!

So now I'm trying to understand WHY this issue.

They don't have a 32-bit version of 0.9, or a 64-bit version of 0.7 to compare the same version, so I'm thinking the issue is either that 0.9 has new code which rejects those "UNDEFINED" handles, or perhaps that the Win10/64-bit HAL is handling 32-bit function calls differently which is generating the "UNDEFINED" handles and they don't happen with the 64-bit version of DFU-Util.

Either way, for me the newer version of DFU-Util appears to have resolved this issue I've had ever since I moved "up" to Win10/64, so I'm happy enough. I'll stop back later and finish the Mini-DIY once I have a chance.


Cheers,

mnem
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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by bob195558 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:53 pm

Try flashing it with ersky9x for Taranis Plus: (http://www.er9x.com/), you will have less troubles in the long run.
I believe you can use eepSkye to do it.

Bob B.
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Some help info here: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=7182).
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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:38 am

LOL... I'm no noob to Open Source RC; I've been doing this since the days of the TH-9X. er9x is an awesome environment, I used it for years. But I have stuff I need openTX 2.2 for.

Besides, I already found a fix for the problem; I'm just trying to understand why the fix worked. :D

Cheers,

mnem
*Toddles off to ded*

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by bob195558 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:03 am

HA! HA! :lol: :lol: :D ;) you do have a superior understand of things then I do.
I was just promoting erSky9x over opentx.
Have you looked at erSky9x recently as it can do some things that opentx can not do.
Some times you just have to try restarting your PC in the morning.
Computer programs keeps changing and so not always able to work together sometimes.

Bob B.
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Some help info here: (http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=7182).
Bob B.

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by jhsa » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:49 am

If people have all their models already programmed in OpenTX, it would be a pain to reprogram all again in Ersky9x because they are not compatible. Then there are things that Ersky9x doesn't do and openTX does, and vice-versa.. So people will use what suits their needs.
I for example love the hardware implementation in Ersky9x which allows us to install great features on our radios.
OpenTX has other stuff that is missing in Ersky9x unfortunately, like for example the audio mixer..
Join both together and you would have the perfect firmware.. :)
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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:48 pm

Right now I'm playing with a number of "Chiny Whoop" micro quads; several of which use firmwares that if you have the MultiModule and openTX 2.2.x, will not only fly them but also supports telemetry. On a 25-35 gram quad.

TOO MUCH fun for just the living room. ;)

Cheers,

mnem
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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by Codeblue » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:33 am

Hi everyone,

New to this forum, not so new to the hobby. I recently purchased the taranis x9d plus se and had range issues from the get go. Talked to horus rc and frsky they sent me a new board. Was kind of ticked that they didn't soldier on the pigtail for me. So I did it my self and have the same range issue. I've ordered yet another back board to see if it was just bad luck and I think this one is working better.

My question is I noticed that there is a tiny resistor between the signal pad and ground. Do u remove that to solder the ipx connector or leave it in place?

I removed it for the first board as I thought it was maybe just a safety upon shipment. This time I've left it in place. The first board I was getting high swr readings and this time 0-1.

Rssi is better this time around but on range test it still isn't great. Suggestions before I throw this taranis out the window from frustration? I was so excited to make the move to FrSky from futaba... But I'm thinking now I shouldn't have.

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:04 am

You should never remove any component from the mainboard, and you should never install an iPX connector on the mainboard. THIS is what was causing all the poor SWR/Poor RSSI issues FRSky was having on late 1st gen Taranii, and they went to the soldered-on connection.

If you want to get good RSSI again (provided you haven't already damaged the RF PA IC by trying to hack a brand-new mainboard), just buy the stock antenna (costs a couple bux) and solder it in place on the mainboard as outlined here:

Image
mnem
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Re: RE: Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by jhsa » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:03 am


mnementh wrote:You should never remove any component from the mainboard, and you should never install an iPX connector on the mainboard. THIS is what was causing all the poor SWR/Poor RSSI issues FRSky was having on late 1st gen Taranii, and they went to the soldered-on connection.
I thought they went to the soldered-on connection to be legal. ;)

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Re: Taranis X9D Plus - Damage to mainboard/backboard?

Post by mnementh » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:50 pm

I did too... but in the course of fixing my 1st Gen Taranis Plus with a new/used backboard that Wayne graciously sourced for me from a TX with a broken USB port, I learned a little more of the history behind the whole iPX/uFL debacle, at least as he experienced it being an ASP for FRSky.

There was a LOT more to it than JUST pressure from the FCC; there were serious performance issues around it as well. Remember, Spek has used an iPX connector on every TX they ever made.


Cheers,

mnem
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