Under ER9x, AIL switch always zero

[TT0002]

With the current build of ER9x (I have no info about this with earlier ER9x versions or the standard 9x firmware), the AIL switch appears nonfunctional. I discovered this when attempting to use it in a mix. The diag page shows it always at zero. I don't have an immediate need for this switch -- in fact I now realize a different switch would be a better choice (on the left-hand side, to pair with the id0-1-2 switch for mode control), so if this is a hardware issue I may wait until the next time I have a reason to open the unit again. And there are plenty of switches -- and all the others work. But I was curious if there were any firmware or configuration issues that might cause this condition. Thanks!

[andrewju]

Do you, by chance, have a SmartieParts Basic installed?
I recently had a 9x radio with exactly the same issue. It was related to the SmartieParts Basic board the owner had installed previously. A simple test would be to remove the SmartieParts board (or any other programmer) from the radio. This should fix the AIL switch behavior.

If that helps and you still want to have the programmer permanently installed, then you will need to connect +5V line from the radio to the programmer board. It's nothing difficult, you just need to solder one wire for that. I can provide more details, if needed (or you can check with Steven directly).

[jhsa]

Does the throttle switch work?

You said that the switch shows always "zero" in the diagswitch screen? Can you confirm this?
If this is the csse you might have a short somewhere. Do you have a programmer permanently installed in the radio? Have you done the telemetry mod? If so, how?

João
EDIT: You can also measure the switch to see if it is broken..

[TT0002]

Does the throttle switch work?

You said that the switch shows always "zero" in the diagswitch screen? Can you confirm this?
If this is the csse you might have a short somewhere. Do you have a programmer permanently installed in the radio? Have you done the telemetry mod? If so, how?

João
EDIT: You can also measure the switch to see if it is broken..

Yes, definitely stays at zero in the diagswitch screen. All other switches (including thr) appear to work fine (at least as far as diagswitch is concerned). I have an SP Basic programmer installed. I have not done the telemetry mod. Thanks!

[jhsa]

Then it looks you hqve a short to ground somewhere. Remove the SP basic and see if the switch works..

João

[TT0002]

Do you, by chance, have a SmartieParts Basic installed?
I recently had a 9x radio with exactly the same issue. It was related to the SmartieParts Basic board the owner had installed previously. A simple test would be to remove the SmartieParts board (or any other programmer) from the radio. This should fix the AIL switch behavior.

If that helps and you still want to have the programmer permanently installed, then you will need to connect +5V line from the radio to the programmer board. It's nothing difficult, you just need to solder one wire for that. I can provide more details, if needed (or you can check with Steven directly).

I do indeed have an SP Basic installed. In all honestly, getting it properly working and aligned was enough work that I do not want to tamper with it any more than necessary (it uses the washer hack to hold in place that is not terribly stable, I have those screws held with a bit of glue now to try stabilize the installation which currently is working fine -- at least until I drop the 9x, probably). If the fix involves simply soldering to the top of the board that is within the realm I'd consider -- though wouldn't that significantly increase the current drain since the board would now be powered up all the time, and would there be any conflict with the USB power still being applied when it's plugged in?

I will open up and test the switch itself and for associated cold solder joints, etc. later today. Thanks!

[TT0002]

Then it looks you hqve a short to ground somewhere. Remove the SP basic and see if the switch works..

João

Removing the SP Basic board really is not an option. As I noted above, getting it working in the first place was a challenge in my particular unit. Would the switch show as 1 if it was open?

[jhsa]

Yes.. and if you remove the switch and still shows zero you will have to remove the sp basic anyway if you want to find the problem.

João

[TT0002]

Yes.. and if you remove the switch and still shows zero you will have to remove the sp basic anyway if you want to find the problem.

João

It's not an option. I won't tamper with the SP Basic installation. It's just too unwieldy and sensitive. I've learned my lesson on this. Can you explain more about how the SP Basic interacts with the AIL switch issue? Tnx.

[jhsa]

Then if you don't want to remove it, you will have to follow andrewju's advice. If that doesn't help you will have to live with a dead switch.
You could have a short to ground somehow under the sp basic, or the board could be loading the pin where the switch is connected. You see, the sp basic shares a pin with the AIL switch and another with the THR switch. If it loads one of them or both, the switches will appear to be always OFF.
It is your decision. ; )

João

[TT0002]

Then if you don't want to remove it, you will have to follow andrewju's advice. If that doesn't help you will have to live with a dead switch.
You could have a short to ground somehow under the sp basic, or the board could be loading the pin where the switch is connected. You see, the sp basic shares a pin with the AIL switch and another with the THR switch. If it loads one of them or both, the switches will appear to be always OFF.
It is your decision. ; )

João

Well, my THR switch appears to work. I don't see offhand why there would be a short to ground from the install of the board, but even if there were there wouldn't be much I could do about it given I need the board there -- I'm already addicted to the eepe way of configuring. Any shifting of the board position is out of the question, the pad alignment on my 9x is extremely sensitive -- in fact to make it work I had to take the board slightly out of the exactly horizontal position -- which as I understand it is unusual. So if it's a loading issue, would it likely be because the board isn't powered unless plugged into usb, and that's where andrewju's suggestion comes in, I assume. Would testing the AIL switch while the SP Board was powered by usb be useful?

[jhsa]

Well with the basic, you need the radio ON anyway, right?
So, I guess it is a good idea, yes..

João

[TT0002]

Well with the basic, you need the radio ON anyway, right?
So, I guess it is a good idea, yes..

João

Right, the SP Basic needs the radio on, and USB power simultaneously. I'll test this shortly. Thanks.

[TT0002]

Well with the basic, you need the radio ON anyway, right?
So, I guess it is a good idea, yes..

João

That's it. With the SP Basic board powered up via USB the AIL switch is working properly in the diags. As soon as USB power is removed it stops working. So the SP Basic must be loading the switch when not powered up. If power can be applied via andrewju' suggestion (yes, I'd appreciate the details on that!) via the top of the SP board (and as I recall the bottom of the board is devoid of circuitry) this seems a viable path forward, assuming the current pulled from the SP board isn't excessive [any clues on that?] (my led backlight is on full time also). However, I've modified the 9x to accept (just barely!) a standard 2200 lipo, so there's quite a bit of juice available. Thanks!

L

[andrewju]

Ok, ok. This is an absolute same issue as I just saw on a radio of one of our club's members. I checked with Steven from SmartieParts and he confirmed the fix is to supply 5V to SmartieParts whenever the radio is ON.

The 5v can be taken from the bottom of the yellow capacitor - see the point marked as 'VCC (5v)' on the picture below (note: this picture was updated following the comments below):




It needs to be connected to this point on the SmartieParts board (this is the picture Steven sent to me):



This will solve your issues, and it should not cause any noticeable difference to the power consumption.
Just keep in mind that after you do this mod, you should program your radio WITHOUT switching it on. Just plug the USB cable into your PC and your radio will be powered from the USB port.

[TT0002]

I can't do it that way since it would require removing the SP Basic board to get at that VCC pad. I can't risk removing the board. Can't I tap 5v somewhere else? Thanks.

[TT0002]

By the way, after this kind of mod, would turning on the radio while the USB is connected actually cause any damage? Thanks.

[s_mack]

Yes, there are plenty of places to take the +5v power from.

I actually just added this item to my FAQ on the product page, as I've now had a half-dozen people report it.

I'll grab some images and show you where else you can pull power from.

[andrewju]

I'll update my image above in a minute...

[s_mack]

By the way, after this kind of mod, would turning on the radio while the USB is connected actually cause any damage? Thanks.

It shouldn't. If everything is to spec, there would be no potential difference between the USB and the battery power (both would be 5V). But, of course, things aren't always as they should be.

The recommendation, therefore, is that you keep your radio switched OFF while connecting it via USB once this mod has been performed.

With that said, LOTS of people have it on or off while using a soldered in USB programmer... same principle. So it really shouldn't cause any problems.

[TT0002]

Super. Thanks. I just don't want to tamper with success now that the board is working 100% for me as currently installed. I'll wait for your images before proceeding today. Thanks again.

L

[andrewju]

I updated my picture for the 5v source. This one is easily accessible while SmartieParts is installed, and easy to solder a wire to.

[TT0002]

Yeah, that looks like an easy one. Thanks again!

[andrewju]

Sure!
Enjoy the great firmware!

[s_mack]

Here's another option for a 5V connection. (Andrew's is a perfectly fine option too... he just beat me and I didn't want to waste all my effort so I posted anyway lol)

[andrewju]

[TT0002]

Done. All fixed and apparently working as advertised! I used Steven's recommendation for +5 rather than andrewju's since the former was more isolated and didn't risk lifting any attached component, but thank you both in particular for the specific suggestions and thanks to everyone for helping on this quick fix! Best, L

[solentlife]

I have two 9x radios both with SP basic boards. Both were working fine with everything working. Then recently one of the 9x's developed this Ail switch fault where I could not get it to select Dual rate.
I gave radio to a pal who is Electronics savvy who discovered removing the board restored the Ail switch function. I tried a spare board I had as well 0 but still no joy.

I am glad that the solution has been found by jumping the 5v ... which is what I will proceed to do. Certainly cheaper than replacing boards with ar9x !!

The 9x may be old hat and with cheap gimbals etc. - but I like the chunky feel in hands and especially that I can 'FEEL' the trim knobs without having to look down to find them as many other radios with their flush rockers.

many thanks to this thread for giving me back my 9x !

Nigel

[s_mack]

FYI, I sent an email out to all SP Basic owners offering them a free Rev 1.1 about a month ago. Only had to pay s/h. Rev 1.1 fixes the AIL switch issue as well as the physical board length good.

Offer doesn't apply to those that got their original on clearance. Must respond to the email so check your spam box. If you want the offer and can't dig up the email, contact me with your original order info (at least full na!e and address) and I will look into it.