The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

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RcRyder
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The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:58 pm

Hi!

first to explain the title: PIG (PIstol Grip) :geek:

I have been in RC world for quite a while and suprissed that there is such a gap between Pistol Grip radios and general arial radios. And there is no sign that this is going to change soon.

On a low cost pistol grip radio we are happy if we can modify or adjust some basic mixes, 4 chanels are anyway premium and usually not able to change TX module.

Telemetry starts with radios over 140$, also with very limited possibilities of use and alarm settings.

If you want a bit more - you need to dig 300$ plus hole in your pocket. Still stuck with 4 channels and limited programming options.

All listed already exist in FS9X or Taranis radio, for 60 to 180$...

Typical users of PIG 9X would be for instance people that build and race buggies, crawlwers, sail boats, scale cars & trucks, scale construction machinery, tanks, scale boats like aircrafts and subs...

Anyway - I think a joint effort could be used to create 3D models for new housing to transplant electronics from FS9X or Taranis radio in to the new housing.

Than the models can be used for nowdays inexpensive 3D printing at your local provider (please se the open source 3D printer site, REPRAP http://reprap.org/)

For start I would suggest to use FS9X radio to test the idea and than expand the mod to Taranis for more demanding users...

The project would need several inputs and would have a couple of milestones.
1. creation of 3D models of existing components that would be re-used
2. creation of list of features that we would like to implement
3. define basic layout of buttons and components of new PIG radio
4. create 3D model of final radio for printing or lasercut Plywod set (for budget minded ones)

Platform for creation would be some sort of free or inexpensive 3D modeler that can create editable 3D models that can later be used for printing. My personal preference is Rhino 3D or Google Sketchup

Final file types: STEP and STL (both of them!)

Before I go any further - please share your oppinion and views about this idea.

Many thanks!

Bye

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:32 pm

After having been sleeping on the project for a couple of year - some nice talented people did it!

Case 1:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... -OpenTx%21

Image

Case 2:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... stol-radio

Image

Case 3:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... conversion

Image


Obviously Taranis QX7 offers better donor guts than nay other system as it standard offers telemetry and many 3 position switches which will operate many functions like winches, lights, sail rigs, pumps and whatever you think of. Now you can actually hook up a small arduino board with custom sequencer program based on your stick / pot / 6 position switch position.

Also this harware looks nice:
http://ar9x.net/index.php?route=product ... duct_id=57

Probably more expensive - but also more flexible on the long run... Maybe we could create a PIG kit with the gentlemen - all the boards and switches, gimbals, wheel and trigger - it should be cheaper than?

Well, I came as far as modelling trigger and some Turnigy 9X gimbals...

I need to dig out those file and Upload them...

BR M

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:59 pm

The closest with idea is Radiolin with their 6 channel radio:
Image

But the ergonomy experienced in RC4G is poor, no thumb steering, extremely poor mix programming...

But with Open TX and OS 3D model - we could go further...

I went in direction of using Taranis radio and using all the guts in a similar way:

Switches would be placed in a way that they could be reached with a pinky or thumb, to mimic normal car swithes for indicators and wipers:

I was also playing with the odea to transplant complete gimbal, to operate gimbal, water cannon, turret or replacing it with cutom made leaver system to run the excavator...


I think that with good teamwork we could do it :-)

BR M
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Kilrah
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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by Kilrah » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 am

Very nice!
I'd remove the backboard to avoid the huge back part though...

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:34 pm

Thanks.

The back side box was intended for the guts of TGY9X or guts of Frsky Tatranis.

I did check AR9X web site - but everything out of stock. Does anyone know if they still sell the boards?

Banggood had the Taranis Q X7 on sales for 99$. I pulled the trigger and it is on the way.
https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-ACCST-Ta ... rehouse=CN

I have one TGX9X that I pulled apart - but I really don't like the board design and also I do not like 2 position switches. 3 position are much more useful...

The Q X7 board is pretty compact and for sure it will be available for a long time. Already now you can buy just a board:
https://www.banggood.com/Frsky-ACCST-Ta ... rehouse=CN


but at the moment - buying a donor radio seem to be a better option as you might be able to sell the housing for instance?

https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-ACCST-Ta ... rehouse=CN
Last edited by RcRyder on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:37 pm

To explain a bit more of the idea that lead me to think about it and mentioned builders are mainly as follows:

Better radio for surface application with more function with better ergonomy:

With surface radio application we can refer to:
- RC road cars, like racing cars, drift cars, scale cars ...
- RC crawler, with multiple classes: Scalers, racing crawlers (motor on axle, single motor), gearbox and diff locks remotely operated
- RC buggies, Monster trucks, Bashing
- RC racing boats (both gas and electric)
- RC scale boats (tugs, trawlers, jet boats, battleships, sailing boats with multiple rig)
- purpose built RC boats (fish bait delivery, underwater surveillance with camera and sonar)
- RC steam boats (control of various valves and control mechanisms, sensors...)
- RC robots (surveillance tracked vehicles)
- RC battle bots
- RC tanks (special multiple ESC functions needed)
- RC construction machinery (excavators, bulldozers, dump trucks...)
- and many more...

Current state of the art surface radios are exclusively pistol grip type, except some really specific radios, but they are basically limited arial radios. This form is usually referred as pistol grip radio.

Typical benefits of pistol grip radio are:
- very easy and intuitive to use for novice and expert
- steering wheel for steering and trigger for throttle
- very easy and simple way to change from forward to reverse

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:39 pm

In the past I owned several surface radios, but not really happy with any of them. Reasons:

- only up to maximum 4 channels
- very limited or no mixing
- very unusable telemetry (maybe some alarms possible to set, but in a stupid, unusable way)
- only tactile buttons available, so agronomy suffers
- none has 3 position switch (except 500$ KO Propo – payable option!)
- poor ergonomy like badly designed grip, position of the trigger, size of grippers, no thumb steering possible (single hand use...)

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:41 pm

What is missing:

• RC tank:
- special mix for steering and throttle with 2 ESC's
- not possible to control turret
- not possible to control smoke, noise, lights
- not possible to control FPV device
- not possible to control fire (airsoft...)
• RC CRAWLER:
- only 4WS possible to implement in most cases
- maybe some basic mix of dual ESC versions
- missing sensible control of winch (3 position switch with programmable curve – not existing)
- dig control hard or not possible to implement
- car lighting (front/ rear light, turn signals etc) hard to implement. Some dumb aftermarket modules exist, no real control of what happens
- rigs with dual winch systems are mission impossible
• RC Racing boats:
- very limited telemetry for gas models (dual temp reading with alarms!)
- no telemetry for power usage and AMP reading for electric boats
- no control of trim tabs and stinger angle with servos possible (high end gas RC racing!)

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:55 pm

As said - I have owned or tested many surface radios:

I have owned: FS GT3B, FS iT4, Radiolink RC3S, RC3G, Spektrum DX3S, Futaba 4PL
I have tested: Sanwa MT4, Futaba 4PKS

FlySky GT 3C ( 50$ range
+++ :
- large easy to read backlit LCD
- ergonomic grip
- easy menu's
- can be hacked up to 8 channels
- fair build quality
--- :
- no programming of mix
- just adjustment
- only three channels
- no telemetry
- prone to interferences
- popular for hacking, but hard to use interface if hacked

Radiolink RC3G (40$ range)
+++ :
- four channels
- potentiometer for one of the channels
- freely selectable mixing for two channels
- integrated gyro in receiver for vehicle stabilization
--- :
- poor build quality
- poor implementation of functions
- no telemetry
- mixing not as open as OpenTX – so very limited
- no 3 position switch
- problems with backwards compatibility in same type of recivers
- bad ergonomy: no thumb drive possible (using steering with thumb of same arm as trigger)
- bad position in the palm (are behind trigger too thick)

FS iT4 (140$ range)
+++ :
- backlit touchscreen
- four channels
- telemetry sensors
- user assignable buttons
- some basic mixing possible
- 4WS for cars
- adjustable curves
- thumb steer possible
- solid build quality
--- :
- software poorly implemented
- short battery life
- not so ergonomic buttons
- telemetry present but useless as alarms, data logging and much more is missing
- only a couple of sensor available
- for instance current sensor not existing
- mAh reading not possible
- no lap count sensor

Spektrum DX3S (200$ range)
+++ :
- very nice grip design
- solid build quality
- nice application of scroll button – very ergonomic
- two position switch (not tactile, so you can "feel" the status
- telemetry
- lap sensor for individual lap timing and racing practice
- adjustable alarms for telemetry
--- :
- telemetry only works up to 20m
- if modified unreliable up to 60m
- very prone to interference
- expensive sensors and receivers
- orange range from HobbyKing work better than original...

Futaba 4PL
+++ :
- build quality
- speed and transmission reliability
- grip ergonomy
- functionality of pre set functions
--- :
- trigger ergonomy (you really need to have tiny fingers :-/ to fit)
- complex programming
- fre programming - only for hard core users.... I gave up!
- expensive recievers

Futaba 4PKS - tested
same as above, but extended, with telemetry that is maybe usable in some cases (temperature...)
+++ :
- very nice build quality
- adjustable position of steering wheel
- adjustable position of trigger
- lots of usable SW options
- earphones jack for noisy environment and use of telemetry
- good grip design
- good mixing options for 2 cahnnels (but only 2)
--- :
- tight trigger design (skinny fingers only...)
- only four channels


SANWA MT4 - tested
+++ :
- build quality to me better than Futaba
- solid feel
- good response
- perfect ergonomy of grip and trigger (at least to me...)
--- :
- price of receivers
- mixing options again limited and complicated

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:58 pm

So why the donnor approach? Minly cost to get almost all the desired components:

• All buttons would be reused with possible alternative positions
• parts of internal mechanism for one gimbal would be reused for trigger / steering mechanism
• second gimbal would be reused and placed on "foot" of the radio, possible later upgrade
• buttons and display layout stays the same
• handle stays the same
• alternative positions for switches covered with rubber cap if not used
• TX module bay on same location as existing (on the back of the radio)

And reasons I went in the way shown and benefits of using Open TX on existing Frsky / ER9X platform:
- very ergonomic use of switches
- multiple purpose of same interface (gimbal 2 can be either turret control interface or FPV control interface, depending of position of selected 3 position switch etc...)
- Unlimited mixing of multiple ESC for multi drive RC models (multi motor boat, Car, tank...)
- Unlimited mixing of steering servo (multiple axle RC crawlers, FW steering, RW steering, 4WS mixing, DIG function...)
- possible later upgrade (only 4 channels basic radio sold, expansion kits sold separately)
- full compatibility of spare parts, receivers, sensors of existing range
- data logging (very important for SAW boat racing, Eco and Mono classes ...)
- many more... (limited only by imagination)
- up to 16 channels! Unthinkable – but needed in several RC surface applications
- no new software needs to be developed at release
- no new electronics need to be developed for release
- only a couple of new cable sets to inter-connect boards would need to be made longer.

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:03 pm

Main design objectives that I have in mind:
- ergonomic grip design (close hybrid extract of best features of FlySky grip and Spektrum grip)
- thumb steering must be achieved (single hand use of steering and throttle while operator uses gimbal for operating for instance FPV gimbal or turret pointing or for instance watter spray gun...
- implementation of external TX module for users migrating from FlySky or Spektrum radios or MultiProtocol modules...
- adjustable trigger position (screw or knob...)
- multiple mechanical ports for customization / repositioning of switches and sliders

Can be / would be nice / could make it more usable:
- second gimbal would not be used and sold to recoup the donor cost. Many dropped rados around I guess :-/
- alternative grip size designs - to be selected before print / Plasti dip for soft feel. Can be hard plastic and wrapped with tennis racket tape...
- could be supplied with only half of existing buttons / sliders and possible to upgrade with additional buttons later

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Kilrah
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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by Kilrah » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:02 am

AR9X is "said to come back" but it's been so a bit too long to still be believable unfortunately.

The Q X7's mainboard is pretty much bigger than the X9's, so I'd probably have stayed with the X9 for the bigger screen (and parts are available too). Although you now get the rotary encoder which is nice.

My point was that you did not need the large Taranis backboard, if I was doing that I would wire in a multiprotocol module to save space and increase compatibility.

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Re: RE: Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by jhsa » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:11 am


Kilrah wrote:AR9X is "said to come back" but it's been so a bit too long to still be believable unfortunately.
ArUni is supposed to come back, not the Ar9x.
For this project in my opinion the best option would be the ArUni if it was available..

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:43 pm

Kilrah wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:02 am
My point was that you did not need the large Taranis backboard, if I was doing that I would wire in a multiprotocol module to save space and increase compatibility.
I intend to leave space for MultiProtokol JR style externa TX module. Than users can choose whatever they prefer... Even a Futaba if some prefer and trust only Futaba...
http://www.flytron.com/openlrs/123-futa ... apter.html

If there will be possibility - I will also provide space for original TX module. It seem it will be a triple stack box:
Screen - spacer - Main board - spacer - TX board

I did found Taranis Plus 3D models on GrabCAD:
https://grabcad.com/library/taranis-plu ... mponents-1
https://grabcad.com/library/taranis-x9d ... nsmitter-1

I will compare those files to my "original 3D product" and than compare both main boards. Maybe we can make alternative middle stack adapter to fit both...

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:48 pm

I have uploaded the files that I made so far:

https://grabcad.com/library/pig-radio-1

It is a clipped taranis body that I downloaded from Grabcad and first concept positioning of the main features.

Also there - JR style TX module

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Re: RE: Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:57 pm

jhsa wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:11 am
Kilrah wrote:AR9X is "said to come back" but it's been so a bit too long to still be believable unfortunately.
ArUni is supposed to come back, not the Ar9x.
For this project in my opinion the best option would be the ArUni if it was available..
I would agree with that and looked into it with that idea. But since there is very low volume of interest for such projects it is likely for me to belive it will not come back. Most likely not enough money behind to power such idea.

On the other hand - there will always be a suitable "main stream" donor that we could adapt our top housing layers to - just new 3D files and 3D prints...

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:16 pm

Here are the downloaded 3D model of T9 plus [ GrabCad ], by David Farrow:
PIG Radio_Pig9T_Taranis Internal Components.jpg
I have compared to 3D model of housing - and many things do not align (button holes) - so accuracy need to be checked.

But it is great help for a start...
Last edited by RcRyder on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:18 pm

In exploded view you can see the big backbone board with many connectors and interfaces . I guess it would take a lot of mods to overcome this.

As far as I could reckon Q 7X does not have that board...
PIG Radio_Pig9T_Taranis Internal Components exploded.jpg

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by jhsa » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:22 pm

I remember that one of those land transmitters was modded with an ArUni board.. that board is small and has all connections made available on pin headers. It was designed exactly for DIY radios or for modding old radios.
I believe it will go into production again, or so I have been told. But the person that designed it hasn't been around for a while.. so, I am not sure anymore.

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:35 pm

Lurking around for options and ideas...

Finished steering wheel from banggood:
https://www.banggood.com/Flysky-New-Ste ... rehouse=CN

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:20 pm

Added new 3D file - trigger for throttle - FS GT compatible...
https://grabcad.com/library/pig-radio-1

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:19 pm

So, the package arrived.

The donor:
Image

I did check if it works and started to disassemble:
Image
Only 4 screws to take it apart and some gentle wiggling and tada...

Wires and connectors are firm - but came apart easily:

Image

I was wondering - are the marked terminals ment for sliders? They were not connected - but I guess we have additional 2 A/D inputs :-) Anyone sure about it?
Image

To pull out the main board I had to pull the encoder button off:
Image

On the rear - the support bezel made some distance between screen and window:
Image

Buttons are just inserted:

Image

The design might present some problem for 3D printing on the new box :-/

Image


And in the end - window was glued in with two sided tape. It came out nicely after applying some pressure and waiting for a couple of seconds. It peeled off nicely, without torn glue :-)

Image

Pulling out the gimbal was easy, also taking it appart. You get the idea ;-)
Image

Well, this is the board I do not like! I has integrated trim buttons, power on switch ad external TX module!
Image

It might work nicely on a aerial radio - bit for the PIG version - It will present some challenges... Not a straight reuse as I have hoped. Maybe desoldering the trim switches and relocating them will do the trick?

The remains of the gimbal - will be reused as mechanism for steering wheel, some serious mods will be required...
Image

Now, the original integrated TX module:
Image

Will not come out, also the antenna can not be pulled apart to take it out:
Image

What the heck! Taranis was born by Hacking some other radio. So use the Hack saw again;-)
Image

There we go. Plenty of parts to 3D model...

BR M

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 pm

Browsing through banggood spare parts list - the spare trim switches are not to expensive though:

https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-ACCST-Ta ... rehouse=CN

Also longer cables to easier locate the TX module will come handy:
https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-ACCST-Ta ... rehouse=CN

So middle pesky board should be doable without major issues...

BR M


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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:09 pm

Trigger assy done and added to GrabCAD

Image

BR M

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:59 pm

First prints came in:

Image

Gimbal assy with bezel rough model, uploaded to grabcad:

Image

BR M

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:01 am

The grip went into test print to check ergonomy...

Image

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by BofaDeez2Nuts » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:42 pm

RcRyder wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:32 pm
After having been sleeping on the project for a couple of year - some nice talented people did it!
Talented?... I'm flattered.
To even be compared to those masterfully build radios.
Anyhow, here is the simple version anyone could build.
My first hack job was hideous and cluttered but this one can be done with minimal fab work and almost no technical knowledge. It is also universal and can be done with any radio... It is the absolute easiest way to build one.
Check this out homie....
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... ransmitter


 ! Message from: Kilrah
Quote shortened

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by RcRyder » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:41 pm

Some progress:

Image

BR M

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Re: The PIG mod (creation of the PIstol Grip Housing)

Post by BofaDeez2Nuts » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:14 am

When this project is complete...
I will order a Taranis, head to the local 3d print shop in town and swap the guts before I even power it up.
This radio is going to be dope.
Will you make this downloadable?

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