Taranis Gimals in a 9X

andrewju · Post by **andrewju** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 am

Did anyone ever measure the resistance of pots used in early version of the sticks - those that came with amplifiers? I'm interested to know the actual parameters of pots used there (but without the help of amplifiers).

Post by **Kilrah** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:38 am

Don't know the resistance, but that wouldn't matter as they're used as resistive dividers. The problem was that they were 270° pots, so the ~60° of stick travel resulted in too small a voltage change to get acceptable resolution. The new ones seem to be 80° or so, so we get nearly full voltage swing without the need for the amp.

andrewju · Post by **andrewju** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:01 pm

Hi Kilrah,

Thanks a lot for your response! I understand and I agree with that... I was just looking for a proof that early sticks used 270° pots...

(there's a person who is assuming the pots themselves are the same in the older and in the newer sticks. According to him, the amps used in the first version of the sticks were causing jitter in certain conditions, and therefore were removed in later versions, while pots themselves remained the same. This hypothesis is accompanied by a nice-looking story that looks relatively logical (to my opinion), but is not proven by any facts.)

I think we'll end up taking an amplified pot apart and measuring its parameters (looks like man-bis is about to do that)...

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:32 pm

Installing Taranis Gimbals INFO
Hi,

I have received two Taranis Replacement Gimbals from Aloft Hobbies.
Preparing to install them into a 9x Radio.
[hr] This is the proper wiring connections for the Taranis Gimbals with amplified potentiometer to the 9x Radio!
Taranis Gimbals: #1 Red wire to Black wire 9x Radio
Taranis Gimbals: #2 Orange wire to White wire 9x Radio
Taranis Gimbals: #3 Brown wire to Red wire 9x Radio
[hr]
You need to update your 9x Radio's er9x firmware before you start your Taranis Gimbals Upgrade install.
Because one of the Potentiometers in each Taranis Gimbals set, work in the opposite direction,
you will need to make the correction in your er9x firmware after you have completed your Taranis Gimbals Upgrade Mod.

Bob

: Taranis Replacement Gimbals

: Taranis Replacement Gimbals

: Taranis Replacement Gimbals

: muRata Pboard-ReV0.2
Amplified Potentiometer after cover is Popped off.

: muRata
1 2 3
A01316
Pboard-ReV0.2
Amplified Potentiometer removed from Gimbal.

: muRata Pboard-ReV0.2
Amplified Potentiometer removed from Gimbal.

Update January 25, 2016: There is no more Taranis Gimbals that have amplified potentiometers!

So there is no more worry about amplified potentiometers anymore.

csurf · Post by **csurf** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:09 pm

question:
do these really feel *a lot* better than the stock 9x gimbals?
Is it worth the effort&investment to perform this upgrade?
I've never held a Taranis (actually, I've only ever held/used a 9x), so I'm clueless as to how well this would work...

dvogonen · Post by **dvogonen** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:26 pm

The 9x sticks are better than their reputation. After tweaking the springs a bit to reduce the tension (I prefer low tension sticks) and applying some helicoil grease (used to lubricate the helicoils of polycarbonate lens tubes) I have been quite happy my 9x sticks for two years. I think the feeling is OK. Certainly on level or better than other entry level radios like the Spektrum DX6i.
The sticks are certainly not useless.

But...

The sticks are not adjustable in any sensible way. There are no ball bearings, which means that they will never be super smooth. The potentiometers are prone to fail and hard to find replacements for.

The Taranis sticks are in another league. They have ball bearings and are adjustable. Hopefully the pots last longer.

I would personally not consider it worth while to upgrade a 9x with workings sticks. At least not now when the Taranis is available as an obvious upgrade.
But if a potentiometer failed on my 9x I would most certainly upgrade the sticks. I want to keep the radio and see no reason to invest time and effort just to fix it back to how it was, when a relatively small investment would make it better.

Daedalus66 · Post by **Daedalus66** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:20 pm

Plus one on all that. The sticks on the 9x (and 9XR) are not bad at all for normal flying. But they are prone to failure and poor quality control. I wouldn't bother changing them unless I had a problem.

I have a Tananis and it is definitely nicer, but I don't think there is enough difference to affect flying, unless you have ultra responsive and smooth flying models.

Scott Page · Post by **Scott Page** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:06 pm

If I was going to keep a 9x for flying I would certainly change to Taranis sticks. That was my original intent until I received a Taranis. It's superior in so many ways that my 9x transmitters will continue to gather dust until I give them away to a new flyer. I actually felt guilty that my wife was still flying with a 9x but I had a Taranis, so I'm rectifying that for Christmas → again → my first inclination was to upgrade her sticks but went the whole route to a new Taranis - even with a similar custom spray job as her 9x.
Her first 9x http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... &t=8#p5221
Her Taranis http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... 210#p66667

volumax · Post by **volumax** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:10 pm

bob195558 wrote:Hi,

I have received two Taranis Replacement Gimbals from Aloft Hobbies.
Preparing to install them into a 9x Radio.

Is this the proper wiring connections for the Taranis Gimbals with amplified potentiometer to the 9x Radio?

Taranis Gimbals: #1 Red wire to Black wire 9x Radio
Taranis Gimbals: #2 Orange wire to White wire 9x Radio
Taranis Gimbals: #3 Brown wire to Red wire 9x Radio

Bob

Hey bob that is correct, red to black, orange to white and brown to red. Also the only way the tx case will close is if you put BOTH gimbals the same position you find the RIGHT gimbal in (AIL-Elev if on mode 2). That is with the MIDDLE pot facing UP.

Also I had to cut off some of this to be able to get the LEFT gimbal to go in completely. It was hitting some green board I believe and wouldnt let it go down completely. I just used a cutting knife, took me maybe 10 seconds to cut.

P.S. You only need to cut this on the LEFT gimbal (Thr-RUD if on mode 2)

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi Volumax,

I appreciate your confirming the wiring and the need to mod the Gimbals and/or 9x Radio case.

As I do this Gimbals Mod to a 9x Radio, I will take pictures and post them so that others,
who may be thinking of and/or doing a successful upgrade Gimbals Mod to there 9x Radio.

May be after Christmas before I am able to get back to continue the mod. Thanks!

Bob

LTMNO · Post by **LTMNO** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:32 pm

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

volumax · Post by **volumax** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:58 pm

Hey Bob just in case, you only need to cut what I marked red not the whole thing.

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:01 am

1) Installing Taranis Gimbals

Hi Everyone and Volumax,

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Add Edit Update: Thursday, February 06, 2014

This is what I did to Close the Two Case Halves of my FlySky 9x Radio together when installing Taranis Gimbals with the SmartiesParts 9x TelemetrEZ Board installed:

1) Grind half of the Friction Ratchet Tensioner away on both Taranis Gimbals Sets and/or you can remove the Friction Ratchet Tensioners
from the Right Gimbals Sets (Elevator/Aileron), as it is not needed for the right side.

2) Install both Taranis Gimbals Sets the same way as your original Stock 9x Gimbals were installed.

3) Note Update: It is NOT necessary to do the Green Back Board Notching Mod, when you do the Grind Half of the Friction Ratchet Tensioner away on both Taranis Gimbals Sets
and/or you can just remove the Friction Ratchet Tensioners from the Right Gimbals Sets (Elevator / Aileron Gimbals Set), as it is not needed for the right side.

4) Keep the SmartiesParts 9x TelemetrEZ Board Cables which plug into the side of the 9x TelemetrEZ Board rolled back over it self
so that the Cables will not obstruct the Taranis Gimbals Stick movements.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have installed both Taranis Gimbals into the t9x Radio with the Sky9x Rev.3 MainBoard and in the same orientation as the Stock 9x Gimbals.
And as it has been mentioned the two case halves were not able to Close together.

3) Note update: It is NOT necessary to do the Green Back Board Notching Mod, when you do the Grind Half of the Friction Ratchet Tensioner away on both Taranis Gimbals Sets
and/or you can just remove the Friction Ratchet Tensioners from the Right Gimbals Sets (Elevator / Aileron Gimbals Set), as it is not needed for the right side.

It look's like when assembling the two case halves together, the Left Taranis Gimbal (Throttle/Rudder) is making contact between the 9x Green Circuit Backboard
and the Friction, Ratchet Tensioners of this Taranis Gimbal.

The attachment 216_Taranis Gimbal Mod a.jpg is no longer available

My first idea, was to notch out part of the Green Circuit Backboard to make room for the Gimbals Friction, Ratchet Tensioners,
but when checking the underside of the Green Backboard there are several wire traces that travel up and down the length of the board there,
so that's not good to severed these trace connections.

The attachment 211_Taranis Gimbal Mod.jpg is no longer available

: Distance of left side Taranis Gimbal.

: Distance of left side Taranis Gimbal and the over lap onto Green Circuit Backboard .

(Idea: I could still notch the Left side a little and notch the Right Side to what is needed.

Looking back at Volumax info, it looks like he has rotated the left Taranis Gimbal 180 degrees, which moves the Friction, Ratchet Tensioners
away from the Green Circuit Backboard and this is why Volumax, is saying to cut away part of the top of the Taranis Gimbal over the horizontal potentiometer.
It must be making contact with the small Green Trim Circuit Backboard.

: Under side of Green Circuit Backboard.

Bob

volumax · Post by **volumax** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:55 am

Bob with the changes Mike implemented on the test version with options to change stick direction there is no problem anymore. Actually by flipping the gimbal Throttle direction is correct, what is not correct would be Rudder, but again, Mike made the correction really simple with the test version he uploaded.

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:31 pm

2) Installing Taranis Gimbals
Hi Everyone and Volumax,

I was not, for some reason, not fully understanding what you were saying about your installation with the Taranis Gimbals after being installed,
that one of the Potentiometers in each Taranis Gimbals set, work in the opposite direction.
I would think both Potentiometers would be working in the same direction.
BUT, one Potentiometer, is working one way and the other Potentiometer working the other way, within the same Gimbal set.

You need to update your 9x Radio's er9x firmware before you start your Taranis Gimbals Upgrade install.
Because one of the Potentiometers in each Taranis Gimbals set, work in the opposite direction,
you will need to make the correction in your er9x firmware after you have completed your Taranis Gimbals Upgrade.

I was successful in getting the Left Gimbals (Throttle/Rudder) installed in the same orientation as the Stock 9x Gimbals.
By notching the Green Circuit BackBoard where the Taranis Gimbals Friction, Ratchet Tensioners were making contact with
the Green Circuit BackBoard, and by grinding away half of the Ratchet Tensioner.
Note Update Edit added 02/06/2014: I believe it is NOT necessary
to do the Green Circuit BackBoard Mod that I did the first time.

3) Note: It is NOT necessary to do the Green Back Board Notching Mod, when you do the Grind Half of the Friction Ratchet Tensioner away on both Taranis Gimbals Sets
and/or you can just remove the Friction Ratchet Tensioners from the Right Gimbals Sets (Elevator / Aileron Gimbals Set), as it is not needed for the right side.

This created enough clearance so the Taranis Gimbals were able to work freely.
Half of the Taranis Ratchet Tensioner was hanging out in the air and so was not needed,
and the Ratchet Tensioners still works the same way, if you need to use them.

: Notched Green BackBoard Both sides.

: Remove the Tensioner and Grind away half of the Ratchet Tensioner!

When I powered up the Radio and calibrated the Taranis Potentiometers, I quickly understood what you were talking about
with the need to switch the direction of one of the Taranis's Potentiometer in each Taranis Gimbals sets.

: 9xRadio with Taranis Gimbals installed

Even though I was successful in getting the Left Gimbal installed the same way as the Stock 9x Gimbals,
I was think it is better to install the (Throttle/Rudder) Left Gimbal by way of rotating it 180 degrees and do a small cut away mod
to the Taranis Gimbals, so to make clearance between the small Green Trim Circuit Board and the Taranis Gimbal.
Note Update Edit added 2/6/2014: If you have and/or intend to install the SmartiesParts
9x TelemetrEZ Board, you may want to install both Taranis Gimbals Sets the same way as your
original Stock 9x Gimbals were installed. This will make it possible to Close the Two Case Halves together.

You may find it necessary to grind away half of the Friction Ratchet Tensioner on both Left and Right Taranis Gimbals sets.
You could remove the Friction Ratchet Tensioners from the Right Gimbals Sets (Elevator/Rudder), as it is not needed for the right side.

: Taranis gimbal Notched for clearance when Rotated 180 degrees.

I really like these new Taranis Gimbals, they are well engineer
and are made with a high standard of manufactured quality.

Bob

volumax · Post by **volumax** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:09 pm

Yes, the taranis gimbals are great, I also got futaba heavy duty springs to make the sticks stiffer, I like them much more, but thats my taste, most would find the taranis springs good enough. It seems you decided to take a more difficult route, the way I did it was much much simpler and you would have installed them right away, but I guess you needed to try your way to find out

This is the link to Mikes stick version if you dont already have it.

http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... 969#p64969

Post by **Kilrah** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:02 pm

bob195558 wrote: But not one Potentiometer working one way and the other Potentiometer working the other way within the same Gimbal set.

It has nothing to do with that - the pots simply aren't mounted the same way as the ones on the 9x gimbals, which means there's always one that's wrong when the firmware expects 9x gimbals.

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:56 am

Hi

I have the Sky9x Board Rev. 3 and so am using ersky9x-r188.bin firmware.

I am having trouble finding where I can change the Potentiometer directions in ersky9x .

It looks like Mikes stick version (test version) only dose the four er9x versions and dose not have an ersky9x test version ?

Post by **MikeB** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:15 am

See: http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... 676#p65894

Mike.

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:27 pm

Thanks Mike!

I made the direction changes and it's working great.

I really appreciate your help.

Bob

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:44 pm

Hi Kilrah,

I did make an error with my suggestion that the Taranis Potentiometers maybe wired differently.
I got my Digital Multimeter out and checked the Stock t9x Gimbals Potentiometers and found that the wiring
between the Vertical (Throttle) and horizontal (Rudder) Stock t9x Potentiometers are different.
The Black +5 volt wire is swapped with the Red - Ground wire, which explains how there is a difference between the Taranis and Stock t9x Gimbals.
I took another look at the Taranis and Stock 9x Gimbals that I have and I believe the orientation of the potentiometers are the same with both gimbals sets.
Its the wiring that is swapped from one side to the other.

Bob

feket663 · Post by **feket663** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:17 pm

Hi! I ordered a pair of Taranis gimbals from T9Hobbysports. Today arrived, but a checked the pots, either of gimbals have amplified pots, another have non amplified pots. What do you recommend? Which install where?
Thanks for help!

Istvan from Hungary

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:57 am

Hi Istvan (feket663),

It dose not make any difference, if you have the Taranis Gimbals set with the amplified circuit Potentiometer (old version)
and/or the Potentiometer without the amplifier circuit (new version),
the performance is same with between the old and new Potentiometer versions.

I would say you can install either Potentiometer versions to either side.

For more info see: (http://www.frsky-rc.com/BBS/viewtopic.p ... d0a9961660)

Bob

feket663 · Post by **feket663** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:38 am

Thanks for the info! I built into my stock Flysky transmitter yesterday night, the amplified gimbal to left (mode 2), the non amplified to right. The throttle channel need invert on er9x menu, the rudder was ok. The another side one of channels (I forgot which) was reverted, there I changed 2 wire on pot, and everything working ok. IMHO only the throttle channel need running in (or a little amount of grease) the other directions feels fantastic, worth it the investment.
For me wasn't need any modification, only the ratchet tensioner removed, and the gimbals fits perfectly my TX.

lebenj · Post by **lebenj** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:14 pm

Hello,

I get taranis gimbals to put inside my 9X. I received the Amplified potentiometer gimbals, so i had to find a solution for the reverse stick.
finally i find that it's very easy to take off the potentiometer support of the gimball with a knife.

with a dremel, i made a small modification on the support to make the possibility to reverse the potenciometer and i glued it to the support with hot glue!

for the moment, i let it like that, but may be i will modify the protector

to have a safer system

Don't forget to sold :
white wire with orange wire
black wire with red wire
red wire with brown wire

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:02 pm

Hi lebenj ,

I like to view different ways to solved a problem and/or a task to be done.
I had looked at flipping the Amplified Potentiometer over and saw that because of the Amplified Circuit was spacing it to far away from engaging the shaft,
I decided not to go any further with this option because I really like the way FrSky has the Potentiometer attached to the Taranis Gimbal.
You have flipped the Taranis Gimbals Potentiometer over in order to change its direction.

Mike B. has added the option to a test version of the firmware to change (set) the individual Potentiometer directions, you will find under RADIO SETUP.
If you look just under the Channel Order line (Mode 2) you will see highlighted symbols and you can shift them over to make the directional change that you need.
You can find the firmware Test Versions, er9x firmware and/or the erSky9x firmware back in these Post.
You will not need the old Test Firmware Version, the new firmware updates have it now.
Here they are: (Er9x test versions: http://openrcforums.com/forum/download/ ... d=6427)
or (Ersky9x Test Versions: http://openrcforums.com/forum/download/ ... d=6534)

: erSky9x Test Firmware to set Potentiometer direction

After reviewing several way to install the Taranis Gimbals, I think this was the best options to
rotate the left-hand Gimbal half a turn (180 degrees) which places it upside down.
This will remove the need to make the modifications to the Green BackBoard, saving a lot of work and a chance of accidental damage to you radio.
Note Update Edit added 2/6/2014: If you have and/or intend to install the SmartiesParts
9x TelemetrEZ Board, you may want to install both Taranis Gimbals Sets the same way as your
original Stock 9x Gimbals were installed. This will make it possible to Close the Two Case Halves together.
You will then use the new updated firmware to properly set the individual Potentiometer direction.

Bob

volumax · Post by **volumax** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:57 am

Question.. the difference in feel between taranis gimbals and stock 9x gimbals is so huge I want to swap them out of my second 9x with stock firmware... If i get non amplified gimbals should they work fine with the stock firmware?

bob195558 · Post by **bob195558** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:12 am

Hi volumax,
I believe they will work because they both are 5K Potentiometers and they both work with the same total stick movement of 55 degrees.
(Amplified Angular Rotation Sensors, muRata A01316 Pboard Rev 0.2 and the newer Potentiometers are the Non-amplified Angular Rotation Sensors)

They both are reading the difference between Low (Negative Span), Middle (Mid Value), and High (Positive Span) stick position calibration settings.
The Stock 9x Gimbals when measuring the stick movement values are not using the full 5k of the resistance value.
I received the Taranis Replacement Gimbals with the Amplified Potentiometers and they are not able to have the difference resistance values measured
because the amplified circuit blocks the Multimeter readings.
I do not think it would be a problem to use the Taranis non-amplified Potentiometer as the values are close between each other.
You know you will need to swap the outside wires of two, of the Taranis Gimbals Non-Amplified potentiometers to correct there stick direction.
This is because the Stock 9x Radio V2 firmware corrects the horizontal potentiometers that are wired opposite from the vertical potentiometers.

FlyingAllen, at FrSky Forum / Taranis X9D sticks: said there is no difference between the Taranis Amplified Potentiometers and the Non-amplified Potentiometers.
See this Post at the FrSky Forum: (http://www.frsky-rc.com/BBS/viewtopic.p ... cac9464eaf)

Maybe if you have the SmartiesParts 9x Solderless Programmer Board, you may be able to move it temporarily to your Stock 9x Radio with the Stock v2 firmware
and Flash er9x firmware to it and them move the SmartiesParts Programmer Board back to your original 9x Radio.

Bob

volumax · Post by **volumax** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:44 am

I soldered a connector to my first 9x to be able to flash it I dont have smartieparts board, but I wish to install the gimbals on stock firmware because I like it for helicopter setup. The problem is where can I get non amplified gimbals.

Post by **jhsa** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:05 am

I would like to know that as well as I would prefer them over the amplified ones.

Joao

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