Recovered From Fuse Brick, Won't Work Without External Oscil

[rkburnside]

I fuse bricked my radio when I first tried flashing it. I followed the great tutorial (http://er9x.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/do ... 0Brick.pdf) on unbricking the radio using the external 1 Mhz oscillator. However, the radio will NOT operate without that 1 Mhz oscillator. (I've hooked up a switch so I can easily switch between the 2 states.)

Using the crystal, I can successfully flash the latest er9x firmware and I can read it from the radio. I can also read and write eeprom from the radio. However, the radio will not work (i.e. splash screen and all other menus will not appear) unless the crystal is connected.

When the radio is working, it is VERY slow. Scrolling from menu to menu is very tedious. In the fuse section of the "er9x flashing" guide, it mentions the following: "Depending on what happens, this can lead to the 9x only working with certain firmware, working at about 1/8th its normal speed, to not responding at all." I think that describes the condition of the radio.

I have also successfully set the fuses per the instructions and reading the fuse settings results as follows:

Code: Select all

=================================================================================
=================================================================================
FUSES: Low=0e High=89 Ext=ff
=================================================================================

Out of desperation, I have tried "reset fuses" and that results in the following:

Code: Select all

=================================================================================
=================================================================================
FUSES: Low=0e High=81 Ext=ff
=================================================================================

Either way, the radio will NOT work unless the 1 Mhz oscillator is connected. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this error? Are there other fuses that could/should be set that I have may messed up when I originally bricked it?

[jhsa]

Could the Xtal on the 9x have gone bad? maybe needs replacing? maybe it wasn't bricked?

[gohsthb]

You have a switch connecting your oscillator to the m64? Maybe unsolder that wire now that you know the fuses are correct. If it still won't work the crystal is not working. Check the solder joints to it, if they are fine replace the crystal.
The reason the radio is running slow is that the oscillator you have connected to it is 1/16th the speed of the normal one.
-Gohst

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

[rkburnside]

Concerning the radio speed, gohsthb's statement makes complete sense: "the oscillator you have connected to it is 1/16th the speed of the normal one." Thanks.

As for the radio's crystal being bad, I don't think that WAS the problem, but very well COULD be the problem now. I have used the radio for the past ~6 months off and on with no problems. The first time I experienced a problem was when I tried to flash it for the first time last week and failed. I had been running the stock turnigy firmware before that.

As for disconnecting the crystal, I have already did that once and I just installed the switch (as recommended in the fuse unbricking guide) for ease of trouble shooting this issue. I will recheck the solder joint and remove the lead soldered in that location.

[MikeB]

It does sound like you have a crystal problem, or the connections to it.
You could try changing the low fuse bits to 04 (from 0E). This will select the internal oscillator at 8MHz, half the speed of the crystal. If the radio works with this, then check the crystal connections to the processor pins. If they seem OK, then you probably need to try changing the crystal.

Mike.

[rkburnside]

BAM! Problem solved. Thanks MikeB, gohsthb, and jhsa. The problem was the switch I installed. Here are the steps I took:

I first changed the low fuse bit as MikeB suggested, switched off the oscillator I had installed, and the radio functioned correctly (at 1/2 the speed since it was functioning at 8mhz instead of 16mhz). I then verified that I could read and write to and from the radio without the crystal I installed.

I next correctly set the bits as detailed in the unbricking guide and once again verified that I could read and write to the radio without the crystal I installed.

Finally, I unsoldered the switch completely and the problem is solved and the radio works perfectly again! Thanks for your help.

[ShowMaster]

You've given me hope so I'm going to try it again.
I can really use some step by step instructions.
I have the 1 MHz Osc working and connected to pin24. I do have a working HK usbasp programmer with its stock FW. The 9x board is disconnected from the 9x.
Things yet to try,
I'll remove cap on the reset line but would like links explaining why if there are some.
I will run eepe or C9x again and set config to -B1000 and try a master fuse reset again if that's how it works.
The current programming cable is connected correctly but is 10 in long so I will make it shorter and try again if that sounds like a good idea.
I see values posted for forcing the fuses to certain values using AVRdude. Can these values be entered into eepe or C9X and flashed using those programs as a GUI for AVRdude because I'm not familiar on how to do it CMD line?
Maybe a utube video doing all those steps however it should be done in order would help.
My confusion comes from the mention of following a certain guide but no link to that exact one used. Wiki had a dead link for that.
Also the mention of AVRdude bring able to force the fuse settings but how to do it is left out, just the success.
I'm sure I'm missing a step here but need to keep trying before giving up and replacing the M64 and still maybe having to do all this to a new install.
I resisted posting my stupidity on this but decided it would be a shame to let pride stand in the way of knowledge and hopefully success.
Thank you


ShowMaster
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[ShowMaster]

I fuse bricked my radio when I first tried flashing it. I followed the great tutorial (http://er9x.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/do ... 0Brick.pdf) on unbricking the radio using the external 1 Mhz oscillator. However, the radio will NOT operate without that 1 Mhz oscillator. (I've hooked up a switch so I can easily switch between the 2 states.)

Using the crystal, I can successfully flash the latest er9x firmware and I can read it from the radio. I can also read and write eeprom from the radio. However, the radio will not work (i.e. splash screen and all other menus will not appear) unless the crystal is connected.

When the radio is working, it is VERY slow. Scrolling from menu to menu is very tedious. In the fuse section of the "er9x flashing" guide, it mentions the following: "Depending on what happens, this can lead to the 9x only working with certain firmware, working at about 1/8th its normal speed, to not responding at all." I think that describes the condition of the radio.

I have also successfully set the fuses per the instructions and reading the fuse settings results as follows:

Code: Select all

=================================================================================
=================================================================================
FUSES: Low=0e High=89 Ext=ff
=================================================================================

Out of desperation, I have tried "reset fuses" and that results in the following:

Code: Select all

=================================================================================
=================================================================================
FUSES: Low=0e High=81 Ext=ff
=================================================================================

Either way, the radio will NOT work unless the 1 Mhz oscillator is connected. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this error? Are there other fuses that could/should be set that I have may messed up when I originally bricked it?

I seem to go to a dead link? I'm sure losing ground?
OK solved the dead link issue. My browser was hijacked by Google Chrome and IE likes the link.It's a start

[ShowMaster]

Ok. got avrdude working in CMD line mode so if anyone has the string I can copy/paste or type into the command line to burn the fuses to normal if the M64 is still OK would be great. I know the location of avrdude so I just need that with xx's and I'll fill that in. This volunteering to fix a broken M64 has sure been a brain teaser. I’m doing this while waiting for a few M64’s to arrive from China. I’m not giving up until I get it working. Everyone makes it sound so easy so I can’t quit now! Help!

[rkburnside]

Adafruit.com has a good tutorial on burning fuses and using avrdude: http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/avrdude.html. I used that tutorial in burning my fuses.

From your [ShowMaster] description, we are using the same HK usbasp programmer. I am running window 7. Assuming your programming is working correctly, I did the following:

Using the adafruit tutorial above, I used the following command to WRITE the fuses:

Code: Select all

avrdude.exe -c usbasp -p m64 -P usb -U lfuse:w:0x0e:m -U hfuse:w:0x89:m -U efuse:w:0xff:m

explanation:
"-c usbasp" -> tells avrdude which programmer you are using
"-p m64" -> tells avrdude which board you are trying to program
"-P usb" -> tells avrdude which port to communicate on
"-U lfuse:w:0x0e:m" -> writes the 0e fuse
"-U hfuse:w:0x89:m" -> writes the 89 fuse
"-U efuse:w:0xff:m" -> writes the ff fuse

you can use the following command to READ the fuses:

Code: Select all

avrdude.exe -c usbasp -p m64 -P usb -U lfuse:r:0x0e:m -U hfuse:r:0x89:m -U efuse:r:0xff:m

The "w"/"r" option changes from read to write.

The fuse commands may be created using the adafruit guide or copy the line of code created using this website: http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/. That site is also referenced on the adafruit tutorial.

Once you have written and then read the fuses and verified that they are set correctly, you should be able to disconnect the crystal and everything SHOULD work. Additionally, you should be able to read and flash the firmware and eeprom with no issues. My issue came up because I did NOT disconnect the oscillator after the fuses were set correctly. I had a switch installed that SHOULD have removed the oscillator from the board, but I obviously didn't set that up correctly. Anyway, as soon as the oscillator was disconnected, everything worked great.

Additionally, as stated in the thread, if you want to verify if your internal crystal (the one that was already installed on the board) IS working correctly, switch the low fuse bits to 04 (from 0E). In other words, use the following command

Code: Select all

-U lfuse:w:0x04:m

in place of

Code: Select all

-U lfuse:w:0x0e:m

Finally, the eePe GUI works great, but I recommend using this version: http://code.google.com/p/eepe/downloads ... p&can=2&q=. It allows you to read and write the fuses. (Use the pull down menu on top rather than than the icons 'cause there is an additional feature for reading and writing the fuses.)

I hope that helps.

[gohsthb]

If you use this fude calculator http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
scroll down and it will give you the avrdude arguments. You simply need to supply the start of the command line (avrdude -c (programmer) -P usb -p m64)

-Gohst

[rperkins]

I'll remove cap on the reset line but would like links explaining why if there are some.

I dont have any links but when looking at it on the scope the cap was keeping the voltage on the reset line from switching fast enough.

[gohsthb]

This is probably as close as I can come to an explanation
http://www.atmel.com/Images/AVRISPmkII_UG.pdf
This is the avrispmkii user guide. On page 26 it talks about it's own internal protection and the target interface.
Basically the capacitor takes time to charge up. If the capacitor is too big by the time the reset line changes states the programmer may have already started trying to program, obviously this will fail. It's kinda like 2 people talking on CB radios where one starts talking before he presses the key on the microphone.
Slowing the programmer speed means it takes more time to start outputting programming commands, sometimes this is long enough for things to work.

-Gohst

[ShowMaster]

Great explanations and I’ve followed them exactly but no good. I was able to read fuses with my good test 9X so I know I’m using AVRdude and the posted CMD line info I need to type in. My scope verifies that the M64 has the 1 MHZ 5v ptp clock on it and there is 5v on the M64. I removed the reset line cap and tried a 6in. flat programming cable and checked all soldered connections and they are correct. The same as my working test 9x setup. At this point I’m thinking the M64 is actually bad and I’ll replace it when the spares arrive in a week or two, or less I hope.
So I’m taking a break to work on my conversions. I do have a question about after the new M64 is installed . Is there anything I need to do or will it be ready to program? Is it set to look for an external crystal as in our 9X and will I have to tell to do that. This area is new to me but it’s been fun learning about it and I can use all the help I can get to master this.
Thank you
ShowMaster

[gohsthb]

showmaster,
did you ever try changing the low fuse byte to 0x04 as Mike B suggested? Maybe it is the external oscillator.
-Gohst

[ShowMaster]

showmaster,
did you ever try changing the low fuse byte to 0x04 as Mike B suggested? Maybe it is the external oscillator.
-Gohst

no I haven't. Interesting you brought that up. I read it but it didn't register at that point since I was still new to it all. I have tried to look st the 16Mhz 9x xtal with my 20Mhz scope and see nothing.
Unless my scope is loading it you and Mike may have given me hope. I'll verify that after I take the back off of my text 9x I've avoided doing.
To be clear the board I'm working on is disconnected and a stand alone but is being powder by my computer USB 5 volts and that's solid on the M64 power pin and ground. My thinking I'd this is the same as my test 9x with the power off as we all do usually to program the M64.
I guess it's back to the "lab" to try again. Right now lab, my garage, is 102 F so I spend late nights playing there.




ShowMaster
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[ShowMaster]

OK, final answer! No luck!
I tried the lower bit 04 and still nothing. I didn’t see and 16Mhz Osc on the crystal pins no matter what I did as a side note. I do see it on a stand a lone spare board I have with just 5 v connected. Just to be try everything I swapped the known good crystal into this board and still no 16MHZ and I also tried the 1 Mhz and Averdude to set the fuses even tried the low fuse set to 04 again. At this point replacing the M64 is sounding like the best option when I get it.
I just need to know now if I have to do any special fuse programming when I install the new M64 or will be set for the external Xtal?
It’s been fun but I think I’m going to stop having fun and wait for the spare M64a’s to arrive.
Thanks again everyone, take a break.
SM

[gohsthb]

from the factory the m64 will come set to use the 1MHz internal oscillator. You already know how to program the fuse bits, so you shouldn't have any problem with this.
Crystal oscillators are very easy to overload. Really you can't put a scope probe on there and get a good reading. A typical scope probe has 20pf of capacitance built in. The little capacitors with the crystal are probably 20pf as well, so already you have doubled the capacitance. If you do get a reading, the oscillator will not be at it's running frequency (because of the extra capacitance). The best way to tell if an oscillator is running, is by checking it indirectly. The LCD lines should toggle often enough, or even the ppm line will be changing if there is a good program in the chip.
-Gohst

[ShowMaster]

Thanks Gohst for the crystal info. My scope probe set to 10x did work on 2 other 9x boards I have and as you mentioned would not at 1x due to loading. I'll double check your suggestion just to make sure however. I can't believe the M64 is dead but at this point I'm going to risk replacing it. This all started with a bad usbasp programmer my friend had and that's fixed and working now. The 9x board was going to be an easy fix from reports. Maybe in the first attempts to fix it something worse happened to it?



ShowMaster
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[MikeB]

Sm: I've slightly lost what is and isn't working. With the external 1MHz oscillator, can you read and/or write the fuses? Can you read and/or write the EEPROM? Can you read and/or write the flash?

Mike.

[calla969]

Unless something has recently changed, he's been unable to read or write anything at all. It is my board he's been trying to help me with. The board is completely unresponsive.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[ShowMaster]

MikeB, Calla969 said it all.
No matter what I've tried I still get the target not communicating error. I've used the -B1000 entry in the posted CMD line strings others have pusted but have to date never got any return message that I'm connecting.
Trying the read fuse string at the CMD line AVRdude and a working 9x board does return the values so I'm assuming my syntax is correct for AVRdude. I tried a new crystal since the original was not working but no go. I did this in case it was the crystal and not bricked. Another working programmer tried, shorter cable, no reset cap.
What would be a great tool would be a auto exec file and folder with AVRdude in it and the various options to unbrick, force the 8MHZ fuse option, read fuses and any other trouble shooting options. Then after each option is tried the results could be posted for further help. Everyone on the same page using the same tools.
I'm just not able to do that but it could make this a turn key operation for programming challanged types it seems I've become from this. I'm tempted to try all this on a working 9x board just to prove I'm doing it correctally but then I could have 2 bad boards.
If I can try all this on a Tiny24 DIP I have spares of those for the AC timer project I put on hold for this. If I can brick and restore one of those the same way I can practice?

[MikeB]

It might be worth checking the programming signals with a 'scope while trying to program, particularly on the processor pins if possible. Have you checked the processor pins are properly soldered to the pads? Also, double check all 3 ground pins and both VCC pins of the M64 have power and ground on them.

Mike.

[ShowMaster]

It might be worth checking the programming signals with a 'scope while trying to program, particularly on the processor pins if possible. Have you checked the processor pins are properly soldered to the pads? Also, double check all 3 ground pins and both VCC pins of the M64 have power and ground on them.

Mike.

I do have a 20Mhz dual channel scope. I assume I'd look at MISO and MOSI and issue a program or read command with eepe or AVRdude while looking at those lines and then do the same for SCK and RST?
I'll recheck all pins you mentioned under a magnifier again to till out a non connection. I've monitored the 5volt line and it stays solid with any programmer I use now. Interesting that the 16MHZ Osc is not running. Does it always run with a crystal connected or if it's bricked does it stop?
Can I probe any other pins to look for some sign of life? It was mentioned to look at the LCD driver pins, something I have not tried yet.
This was working until he tried to flash it with the defective VCC output on his programmer. That still could point to just a bad flash but I just can't get a reply from it that I've communicated.
Again thanks for hanging in there with me. I'm feeling pretty stupid so far and I was going to help out a fellow flyer. I don't think that's going the way we planed it so far ha ha.
I'm almost ready to brick my spare board just to prove I can fix it and I'm doing everything right. I said almost!


ShowMaster
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[MikeB]

This does seem to be a tough one. Yes, 'scope MISO, MOSI, SCK and RESET. When trying to program, do use quite a slow clock speed on SCK if possible,, will help to see things on the 'scope anyway.

Mike.

[ShowMaster]

This does seem to be a tough one. Yes, 'scope MISO, MOSI, SCK and RESET. When trying to program, do use quite a slow clock speed on SCK if possible,, will help to see things on the 'scope anyway.

Mike.

the slow SCK setting is a little confusing? I used the -B1000 and I think AVRdude error message said it was set to 1000HZ. Higher numbers returned a zero and lower numbers returned very high numbers. A -B3 returned 180000HZ I think.
I'll try it all again tonight as time permits.
I so want it to be something I'm modding here.
I was thinking last night, maybe a Facetime session for really difficult problems would be a great addition.
That way an experienced person could guide someone realtime through the critical settings.
I do this now with ham friends with new radios with complicated menus.


ShowMaster
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[ShowMaster]

Finally I've fixed the bricked 9x board I took on as a favor. Unfortunately none of the posted fuse fixes or external Osc input ideas worked with this failure. What did work is replacing the M64 and using the great fuse setting ideas and suggested programs to reprogram the new M64. Thank you all for that as it made it so easy to do.
Now I can return it, after I fully test the board in a 9x case, to its owner. I learned a lot from it all.
I'm taking a repair break to spend some time flying.
SM


ShowMaster
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[rperkins]

Thanks for the update.

[ShowMaster]

Final update.
I installed the repaired board in a new 9x tx case and it checked out 100% eith er9x loaded. I reloaded the FW and mixes to make sure it was solid. Bound it to a new 9x rx and all channels work as they should! Nothing left but to send it back to its owner. Too bad a new M64 was the fix in this case but the replacement went well. I did sever a few lines on pins 17-19 with my dremal tool but the repair is 99% to the eye and it's working great. I'll do better the "next time" now that I've done it.
So far I've repaired 5 boards with issues and the success rate has been 100%.
I'm a happy person and so are the board owners. Great support on the forum got me to this level!
SM


ShowMaster
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