FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

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FairMan
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FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by FairMan »

I think it's about time the RC community starts talking more with OPEN MINDED manufacturers like frSky for example, and work together on designing the perfect Transmitter, not only when it comes to software and electronics, but also hardware!

May be, each one of us should give suggestions, drawings, diagrams, sketches, 3d models and renders, and we all vote for the best, most practical, most beautiful and ergonomic designs of transmitter's shape, layout, gymbal positions etc. etc. and send this info to open-minded manufacturers like FRsky or JETI who value their customers opinion?

What do you guys think? I already have something in mind, no idea if I will have time making it in 3d/cad, but I will try. My design is aimed mostly towards ergonomics, as I seek to strike down layout problems and limitation that have been my main concern over the years.

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Kilrah
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by Kilrah »

We've been working with FrSky since day one on design considerations.

FrSky have been listening to things, and even putting preliminary designs for comment on forums before... but it's kinda pointless. When you do that everyone wants something different, often complete opposites. So at the end of the day the manufacturer does what they feel like doing and it will match none of them, but be acceptable for many.
Marcos
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by Marcos »

Why not just design that ourselves? Here sure are enough skilled individuals to do it. Community could then licence it to manufacturers. That way the DIY oriented(cheapskates like me) of us could make their own and those that don't want to go that route, could then purchase it from these manufacturers. By making the design modular from beginning, users could customize their transmitters according to their own taste and needs.

IMHO the biggest job in making a RC transmitter is the software, and we have a great one (actually couple) already, so there definitely should be an open hardware to accommodate the software. IMHO this would be a win-win situation for the community and for the manufacturers.

Infestation of 3D printers has made the making of your own enclosures a feasible possibility for many. Designing a killer HW to accommodate the already killer software, with option to easily customizing, could really make a big change. Imagine finally a TX that would totally suite your needs now and in the future. No more crazy mark-ups just from couple colourful images and a touch screen. One could finally get actually what they paid for...
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jhsa
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by jhsa »

Marcos wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:24 pm Why not just design that ourselves? Here sure are enough skilled individuals to do it. Community could then licence it to manufacturers. That way the DIY oriented(cheapskates like me) of us could make their own and those that don't want to go that route, could then purchase it from these manufacturers. By making the design modular from beginning, users could customize their transmitters according to their own taste and needs.
If you were following these forums for a while, you would have found out that this is what we have been doing since a few years now. replacement boards and gimbals for the cheap 9x radio case.. A number of addon/replacent boards were designed, SkyBoard, 9Xtreme, Ar9x, and the ArUni that was designed to mod old transmitters and make them more capable.. All boards are supported by Ersky9x and OpenTX, except the 9xtreme that is only supported by Ersky9x.
I own a few radios, using all these boards and running Ersky9x, and they are all costumized, but using the 9x radio case.
Some of the features are, taranis gimbals, one internal module as well as an external module, both controlled by software, internal bluetooth module for trainer and also to send telemetry to an android device, rotary encoder for easy programming, extra switches and buttons, wireless trainer via an internal DIY frsky receiver outputting SBUS and also bluetooth mentioned above, music player (can select albums, tracks, and all the commands via the radio switches, and the best of all, they fly models very well :) :D :mrgreen:
I'm sure I forgot a few features :)
IMHO this would be a win-win situation for the community and for the manufacturers.
I bet the manufacturers would disagree with you :) At least the ones that support the DIY community. :)
Infestation of 3D printers has made the making of your own enclosures a feasible possibility for many. Designing a killer HW to accommodate the already killer software, with option to easily customizing, could really make a big change. Imagine finally a TX that would totally suite your needs now and in the future. No more crazy mark-ups just from couple colourful images and a touch screen. One could finally get actually what they paid for...
Printing hardware is very expensive, that is why DIYers like myself try to use existing stuff and adapt it to out own needs.

And I take my chance to thank once again Mr. Mike.B for the great firmware he has been presenting us with during all these years. Also thank you Mike, for your help, and also for sharing your great knowledge with us.

João
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Kilrah
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:17 pm If you were following these forums for a while, you would have found out that this is what we have been doing since a few years now. replacement boards and gimbals for the cheap 9x radio case.
He acknowledged that in his post, but the whole point of the topic is about the aspect that barely has been touched around here, precisely casing / mechanical.

There have been various endeavors in other places, but what they've showed is that everybody who did the effort to make a radio to their taste had completely different ideas of what they wanted.

So you're never going to get "the perfect transmitter", if that develops and more people get into this you'll rather have 58 very different transmitters.

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jhsa
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by jhsa »

I agree with you, everyone has a different taste, plus, as I said, printing your own tx, if you don't own a priter and the skills to design it, is very expensive..
I for example, thought of making one using wood.. Maybe a project for the future, who knows :)

João
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Kilrah
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by Kilrah »

Quite some diversity as you can see... I.e. if you want something specific, make it for yourself. Once you start involving others you're not going to get that anymore, and the others won't get what they want either.

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Marcos
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by Marcos »

jhsa wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:17 pm If you were following these forums for a while, you would have found out that this is what we have been doing since a few years now. replacement boards and gimbals for the cheap 9x radio case.. A number of addon/replacent boards were designed, SkyBoard, 9Xtreme, Ar9x, and the ArUni that was designed to mod old transmitters and make them more capable.. All boards are supported by Ersky9x and OpenTX, except the 9xtreme that is only supported by Ersky9x.
I own a few radios, using all these boards and running Ersky9x, and they are all costumized, but using the 9x radio case.
Some of the features are, taranis gimbals, one internal module as well as an external module, both controlled by software, internal bluetooth module for trainer and also to send telemetry to an android device, rotary encoder for easy programming, extra switches and buttons, wireless trainer via an internal DIY frsky receiver outputting SBUS and also bluetooth mentioned above, music player (can select albums, tracks, and all the commands via the radio switches, and the best of all, they fly models very well :) :D :mrgreen:
I'm sure I forgot a few features :)
I am actually quite aware of the current HW available, as you should know from our previous conversations in another topic. I was thinking this whole thing more in the lines of the topic title "the next step into the future".
jhsa wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:17 pm I bet the manufacturers would disagree with you :) At least the ones that support the DIY community. :)
Why? If the community would do all the design and testing, manufacturers could just pick the cherries from the cake. It would mean huge savings in their development costs, that is usually the biggest part of new products. They probably could(read: would) even out source support to the community. This would increase their profits even more.
jhsa wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:17 pm Printing hardware is very expensive, that is why DIYers like myself try to use existing stuff and adapt it to out own needs.
João
Well "expensive" is quite subjective concept. My personal 3D printer has come to about 350€ so far with dual-extruders, heated glass bed, auto bed levelling etc. For the not so DIY oriented, a decent 3D printer can be bought with price of Horus. Also, at least here in Helsinki metropolitan area we have 3D printers in several of the largest public libraries and if I am not mistaken, same goes for other bigger cities in Finland as well. As we can hardly be called a civilized country now days, I would imagine that in other parts of civilized world there are also publicly available 3D printers. I admit that printing a full TX enclosure, that will most likely take several hours to complete, may not be possible in public library, but 3D printers are easily available and not that expensive. Also, there are hack labs now days all over, where I would expect one could find some friendly person to print/design things for reasonable fee. Why not get 3D printer for your local club? Splitting the bill will make it cheaper for every one and there are plenty of other uses for 3D printer in RC hobby, than just printing a TX enclosure.

I see designing our own open source hardware to accommodate the great software we already have, just a next logical step.
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jhsa
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by jhsa »

Marcos wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:21 am Why? If the community would do all the design and testing, manufacturers could just pick the cherries from the cake. It would mean huge savings in their development costs, that is usually the biggest part of new products. They probably could(read: would) even out source support to the community. This would increase their profits even more.
production cost a lot of money. In order to get a good price from a supplier (and you need many), you need to order a huge quantity of parts, boards, whatever you need for your product. This is a huge investment. Then, as we have seen not so long ago, there is just not enough demand due to the cheap good radios you can buy, and can run open source firmware..
In other works, from a business person point of view, it's just not worth it. :)

Well "expensive" is quite subjective concept. My personal 3D printer has come to about 350€ so far with dual-extruders, heated glass bed, auto bed levelling etc. For the not so DIY oriented, a decent 3D printer can be bought with price of Horus. Also, at least here in Helsinki metropolitan area we have 3D printers in several of the largest public libraries and if I am not mistaken, same goes for other bigger cities in Finland as well. As we can hardly be called a civilized country now days, I would imagine that in other parts of civilized world there are also publicly available 3D printers. I admit that printing a full TX enclosure, that will most likely take several hours to complete, may not be possible in public library, but 3D printers are easily available and not that expensive. Also, there are hack labs now days all over, where I would expect one could find some friendly person to print/design things for reasonable fee. Why not get 3D printer for your local club? Splitting the bill will make it cheaper for every one and there are plenty of other uses for 3D printer in RC hobby, than just printing a TX enclosure.
It is expensive.. I'm not going to buy a 3D printer only for printing a radio case.. :)
That would involve also learning to work with it and all that..

Ordering online or from a shop can also be very expensive.. Perhaps a couple hundred €??
It is easier to just get an old radio and convert it. Even like that, the 9xtreme board was discontinued, the skyboard was also discontinued since quite a long time. The Ar9x board, I believe could also see its production stopped.
The only one that has a chance of surviving is the ArUni board. But it is also out of stock, and the person that produces them is nowhere to be seen lately. Last thing I heard, the board was about to go into production.. I haven't heard anything about it since.. So, it doesn't look very good for this kind of stuff :(
I am also a DIY person. Let's see what comes up..

João
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MikeB
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Re: FrSky and OpenHardware Transmitters: the next step into the future.

Post by MikeB »

The main problem is getting everyone to agree what such hardware should be like. There will be too many different views.
Then, if the hardware differs from the already existing designs, the firmware would need adapting, giving another version to maintain.
Those of us who do the firmware development do it as a hobby. To me, this means I prefer to do something that interests me. If I don't have any interest or use for a development, then it just becomes a job.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!

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