ERSKYTx (was ersky9x) Questions

[MikeB]

I've posted test versions for all platforms, mainly to check that the new MULTI protocol is correct in all of them.

Mike.

[jhsa]

Thank you..

João

[kaos]

wow wow wow, you really work to the last minute!
Now go do the X'mas things!

I will test them over the wkend.

PS: it was that 'stupid' 'HALF' in throttle cut is doing all the weirdo thing.
Never liked the 'sticky' stuff since it was born, so I never used it. Always clean cut and clean shaved.

[jhsa]

The sticky thingy works very well.. But maybe you don't know how to use it?
I give you a good reason to use a sticky Throttle cut.
It happened to me to bump the throttle cut switch and the throttle wasn't at idle as I was walking around with the radio and I might have moved it.. Lucky that I use the sticky thr cut, because the thr needed to be at -100 to arm the motor.. If I had a normal T-Cut, my model would have jumped and probably hurt someone..

So, sticky T-cut all the way..

João

[kaos]

You do whatever you think is the best. I do whatever I deem appropriate. Each person has their own way of doing things.
I know that switch works very well. and I do know how sticky switch works (one of very few things I know about er9x. Don't know a ton of them.). As I said I don't like it since it was born.
You don't fly CP heli, do you? In CP heli the bottom stick is full throttle in idle up mode with reverse blade angle. Bottom stick may be the most dangerous position you want your stick to be. You don't rely on sticky switch to protect your ignorance in safety. If anyone is more concerned about safety in flying is probably a CP heli flyer. You don't have some nasty cuts with a 450 size or bigger heli (not even a 250 size) with a pair of 360 mm carbon fiber blades turning at 3000 rpm, you have big cuts through the muscle into the bone. It can chop your finger or head off. you don't have a fuselage or wings in between. It is all blades. It is not your cx10 or Aerostar. You check every switch before you pick up that Tx or turn it on. You don't waive your Tx. You don't drink or chat when that heli is hot and Tx is on. You don't even turn the heli on with tx hanging around the neck. You put the tx flat on the ground, hook the heli power on , then pick up the tx and hook to your neck strap before you fly. That is why I don't hang my tx around my neck walking around when it is on and the model is hot. you RESPECT that Tx. I have never seen a real heli flyer hook their heli power up with their tx hanging on their neck. When I need to walk around, if I HAVE TO, I release the Tx hook from my neck strap and put down my Tx, period. That is a routine built in. No exception. Because you don't have a second chance on a heli like that. And you don't let any one near that heli, Tx or flying area when it is hot. Your guard that 'throttle cut' like a hawk.
I believe there is a thread discussing the sticky switch in this forum a few yrs ago and heli flying was mentioned.

Have a Merry X'mas!

[MikeB]

So where would you want the throttle to be as the safest position with a CP heli?

Mike.

[jhsa]

Kaos, no I don't fly Helis cos they are too expensive for me, but I do know how they work and I fly them on the sim.
Please go to Model Setup/general. There is an option called "Throttle default". You can set it to "end" or "Centre". The sticky throttle cut now works also with stick as center.
If the stick is not at center and you bump the switch, the pitch won't change from zero. The only problem I see is that in CP helis the motor is not directly tied to the Thr stick. But I think it can be made to work. Will give it some thought later.. another challenge..

João

EDIT: By the way, I don't have any Aerostar

[ReSt]

So does that mean that you needed a sticky throttle cut that depends on the final channel value and not an a stick position ?

Reinhard

[jhsa]

Mike, "throttle default" option is missing in eepskye..
And in eepe it is not working correctly when "Centre" is selected.. The sticky T-cut still look for the stick at the bottom and not at the centre.. I have the heli template copied to the model..
João

[jhsa]

I have just tried it on the heli template. It is a bit complicated because of the different modes (switched by the IDx switch).
I think when using this heli template, the best for the throttle cut is not to depend only on the Throttle stick position but also on the IDx switch position... If you enable the throttle and the ID switch is not on ID0, the motor will jump to about 75% and all hell can break loose. So just a normal throttle cut (as Kaos suggest) in this case is as dangerous as having none.. We really need a sticky Throttle cut that looks for the Thr switch, and the IDx switch at ID0. That means the motor will be at -100 and it won't jump to nearly full if the ID switch is at the wrong setting. Something like this..

Logical switches

L1 AND THR ID0
L2 Latch L1 !THR

Safety Switch

CH5 X !L2 -100

It seems to work.. To activate the throttle you must turn THR switch ON, have the IDx on ID0, and the Thr stick must be at the bottom.
Please someone double check this.. Like this the heli will be completely secure.. It seems to be working here..

João

EDIT: eeprom for eepskye attached. On the file I used logical switches 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2 as above.. It's nearly Xmas Eve and I gotta go or wife kill me so I had to hurry finding a solution..Sorry about that.. Will fix it later.. But it works as it is..

[kaos]

Can't believe this generated this much discussion. the point is: there is not safety position or switches can protect you from injury if you don't practice safety routine and habit. Relying on switches to protect is a disaster waiting to happen.
It is like gun safety. Only safe practice can prevent gun accident. A person does not know how to practice safe gun handling should never handle a gun. 4 yrs ago, my neighbor (about 5 houses from me) had a family gathering, the grand son brought a semiautomatic hand gun to show his grand dad, and handed to his grand dad (80+yrs old). The grand dad had the gun and pointed to his grand son as a joke and pull the trigger and shot the grandson dead. That should never happened. You never hand a semiautomatic hand gun to another person without the chamber being examined and locked open. ON the revolver, when you hand it over to another person, you should have the cylinder out and exposed before you do that. the semiautomatic hand gun once cocked, there is a round will be left in the chamber even the magazine is released from the gun. You ALWAYS check the chamber before you hand it to another person with the chamber opened and locked. that grandson and granddad made two serious mistakes in a row to have that happened. 1st, the grandson should never hand that gun to his granddad without checking the chamber. 2, the granddad should never point a gun to a person unless you are ready to shoot that person. You think the handgun does not have a safety switch? Of course it has, it is big lever to pull or push to one side to the other. "only empty gun kills" that is what we always say with gun owners.
A colleague of mine, who killed his 24" CRT TV 20 yrs ago using a semiautomatic .22 hand gun. He was playing in the bed with the gun and playing cowboy, drawing hand gun from holster and dry fire the gun without the magazine. BUT he forgot the one bullet left in the chamber (and he did not check), he pulled , fired and the TV exploded. NO human injury, fortunately.
Hanging your tx around the neck walking around while model is hot is absolutely a NO NO, imo. You put tx on a flat surface to keep it from being 'accidentally' bumped if you have to walk around while model is hot. If you are not ready to fly, put the Tx down instead of walking around with it dangling with neck strap or walking around. or even disconnect power from the model and reconnect it when you are ready to fly.
Heli flying is kind of different than normal plane or quad. Because you CAN start a heli in idle up mode with stick at mid point, so really there is no one single position as a 'good' safety position. Also if you practice/fly autorotation, you will engage throttle cut while flying, the sticky switch can prevent you from doing that properly.
I think if someone really want a 'true' safety switch,is to put a mechanical cover lock then you will never hit that throttle cut when cover is not lifted like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pilot-Chrome-An ... z~&vxp=mtr
but still, if someone is really careless, they can open the switch and still bump into the switch.
NO safety beside adhere to strict safety routine/practice.

Hey, guys, It is X'mas. I am going to leave RC stuff for 2 days and enjoy X'mas.

You all have a Merry X'mas!

[jhsa]

Because you CAN start a heli in idle up mode with stick at mid point, so really there is no one single position as a 'good' safety position.

Of course there is. the one where motor doesn't start when it shouldn't.

Also if you practice/fly autorotation, you will engage throttle cut while flying, the sticky switch can prevent you from doing that properly.

Negative, the stick throttle cut won't prevent you from auto-rotate. You program the autorotation separately and using another switch. Using the throttle cut switch for that is asking for trouble. And even more trouble if you fly internal combustion helis

Anyway, I believe the mixing I have posted might make the heli template safer than with the current T-cut programming..
With the original T-Cut if the ID switch is in other position than ID0, the motor will start nearly at full throttle if you bump the switch. You don't even need to haqve the throttle at the bottom. It will just go absolutely mad. With the mixing I posted it won't (I think), and it will make force you to start with a correctly configured heli. It wasn't easy to make it, but it was a good challenge and I have learnt something.. It was fun too..
I normally don't make mistakes with a live model. or I try not to.. But it can happen and it wasn't the first time it did. Lucky me, that I use the safety features that this firmware offers, and that they are available..

By the way kaos, I wouldn't like to live in your neighborhood

João

[MikeB]

kaos: (Should you look in here before you take time off!). It may not be of direct use for your heli setup, but an addition to the options (in model setup|general) is "Custom Check". This (currently) allows you to select one of the sticks or pots and specify a max and a min value it should have. If it is outside this range when you load a model, then you get a warning like the throttle warning.

Mike.

[kaos]

Hope you all had a Merry X'mas eve and day! I did.

Mike: I saw that on the R218i (16ch multi). Learned a new function there. Thx.

Jhsa: Well, I have to say, I am not an expert flyer in CP heli, just barely into acrobatic flying. After > 1 1/2 yr out of RC, I am not sure I can even do a flip or inverted fly anymore. (look at my avatar, you know I am not an expert acrobatic flyer ) I won't be able to handle any unexpected situation in an autorotation now for sure. You did the programming and test so fast, obviously you are very good in CP heli acrobatic. How about use your 450 CP heli and use that brilliant safety programming and show me just a few autorotations, 3 in a row would be quite enough. Take it up to 150-200 ft, stop the motor let it autorotate and stop around 3-5 ft in the air then take it straight up again to 150-200 ft, just do 2-3 times and land it with autorotation to ground the last time. If I see some one use that brilliant programming with sticky cut and can do that autorotation practice without any issue. It surely sounds like a great idea.
I personally don't have the skill at this point to handle any unexpected situation like that. I won't or dare to put my 300.00 dollar heli up there and trash it in a few seconds just because I am not capable to handle minor or unexpected issue. I will do what I know definitely works till some one more skillful than me showing me it is working well in real life. Then I know if something happens, it is my skill, not the programming. If you would spend the time to do that, I would greatly appreciate.

[jhsa]

I told you I don't fly helis as they are too expensive for me but I do understand how they work.
You are mixing a safety measure like throttle cut and auto rotation when the only thing they have in commom is that they stop the motor.
One (the auto rotation) stops the motor when in flight for maneuver practicing and it can be started immediately while still in flight if needed.

The other is a safety measure and is intended to avoid your neck being sliced by some rotating knives while the heli is still on the ground.
So as you see they are quite different.

To program the auto rotation just program a
"R -100% HALF switch" mix at the end of your throttle channel. Use another switch, not the one assigned to the throttle cut.
So while in flight you won't have any sticky behavior, but you will still be protected while on the ground.
It is as simple as that.
I would like some guys to give a shot at the safety programming I posted above and see it really works.. it seems to work in eepskye.

João

[gohsthb]

A sticky throttle cut for helis was part of my template setup from a long time ago. It simply took the standard throttle cut, and made sure it couldn't be unlatched unless the 3-way switch was on ID0. Like João says, you use a separate switch for throttle hold, from throttle kill. No need to fly to prove it, just watch the output bars on the radio.
-Gohst

Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

[jhsa]

Gohst, I haven't seen you here for quite a while. Glad to see you on the forum..

Kaos, there you go, Gohst is an experienced heli person.. If you don't believe me, you can for sure believe him..

João

[RCHH]

I too fly CP helis - up to 600 nitro size for which:

"Negative, the stick throttle cut won't prevent you from auto-rotate. You program the autorotation separately and using another switch. Using the throttle cut switch for that is asking for trouble. And even more trouble if you fly internal combustion helis "

is ABSOLUTLEY a fact!!! Hit 'Throttle Cut' on a nitro heli and there is no going up again ...

The programming João has described works. Will test it for real on a 500 Pro I have kicking about as soon as there is less than 10kts of wind here in the UK! LOL!

As a matter of course, no heli I have will run up unless it is in ID0. Even a tiddler 250 3GX I use for crash practice! heh heh!

[jhsa]

On a nitro/petrol heli for auto rotation you just bring the throttle to idle, right?
But I can see a sticky throttle safety fro when you start the engine quite useful. If you start the motor in acro mode, it can be dangerous.
So a sticky throttle to idle setting might be useful here. the motor will only start if the IDx switch is on ID0 and the collective pitch is where it should be at startup. Normally down?

João

[RCHH]

On a nitro/petrol heli for auto rotation you just bring the throttle to idle, right?
But I can see a sticky throttle safety fro when you start the engine quite useful. If you start the motor in acro mode, it can be dangerous.
So a sticky throttle to idle setting might be useful here. the motor will only start if the IDx switch is on ID0 and the collective pitch is where it should be at startup. Normally down?

João

Yup. Throttle to idle and a few degrees of -ve pitch to keep those blades whirling.

It 'should' be near on impossible to start a nitro engine at anything other than idle, or slightly above that should still not be fast enough to engage the clutch. Most infernal confusion engines don't like open throttles for starting. Try it in your car - and that is a far better performing and tuned device than the average smelly, oily nitro engine. Somewhat different with leccies though - unless it has an ESC that will not initiate with open throttle setiings as some do.
Personally, I have never even got close to accidentally powering up a heli with idle up switched on. Already scared of the flying scythes enough! lol

I was at a non-local field a couple of years ago, and a chap there was having a pure nightmare trying to start a .90 nitro heli, until I noticed he had Futaba gear and when his throttle stick was down, his carb barrel was fully open. No way was it going to start like that. On reversing his throttle channel as is the norm, one quick squeeze of the starter and the motor burbled into life. Then it crashed on takeoff with what turned out to be an intermittent gyro wore connection to the tail servo.

[jhsa]

Auch!!! Expensive...

[tedbmoss]

Can we use just a transistor to invert the signal?

Thanks

João

That is what I did, just a transistor inverter with a 2.7k resistor connected from 5 Volts to the junction of the output telemetering pin 5 on the Tx. and the collector. The base goes through a 10 k resistor to the driving signal which is 3.3 Volts max.Emitter connects to ground. Gives RS-232 type output and voltage swings between 0 and +5 Volts. This replaces the 330 Ohm resistor on the module.

[jhsa]

Thanks. I will have to study very well what the different boards need. I will put one of the frsky Multi modules inside the 9xtreme radio. it will use COM2. as this is only 3.3V, I think I just need to invert the signal while while keeping the same level?

[willhac]

With 9Xtreme : just connect the telemetry output of the multi module directly to COM2-RX, it works. (already non-inverted signal)

[jhsa]

Ah ok.. that's that one sorted Thanks
I think it is the Ar9x board that will need the inverter.
João

[kaos]

ON AR9X board you can use the com2 without rs232 without an inverter. It is located left of the com2-r232.

[kaos]

gohsthb:

You are a ghost as I used to type your name wrong. Glad to see you pop up again. I am still using the Flysky module you gave me to fly my v959 with FPV mod till two wks ago I saw this Multiprotocol came out.

[jhsa]

ON AR9X board you can use the com2 without rs232 without an inverter. It is located left of the com2-r232.

Yeah, forgot about that..

João

[kbadra]

Hi guys,

I've been following the group (i've spent months trying hard to read as many threas as possible) and searching some informations before i could come here to do questions, so there it goes:

"after two years my tx mainboard fried, so i am thinking about replacing with AR9X board. Well it is from a traditional rc brand in the market (i dont know if i can say its name here!)"

I need some help to try doing it... at first, i am planning to buy the mainboard only. Is it possible to have 16ch with this new board without XJT module? I'd like to use its original RF module, but maybe trying to expand tx number of channels from 8 to 16.

For this AR9X board the procedure to update firmaware follow the normal process, i mean is it already supported by opentx companion?

[jhsa]

This thread is for ersky9x. If you want to use openTX and companion you should ask the question in the opentx section of the forum. You might get better help..

viewforum.php?f=45

João