Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

erskyTx runs on many radios and upgrade boards
ersky9x was a port of er9x for use on the sky9x board.
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andrewju
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Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

For the first time in my life I enabled ratchet on the throttle stick. :mrgreen:
It feels nice, somewhat unusual. Not yet sure whether I will like it in flight...

My issue is that due to the ratchet, the throttle stick doesn't stay in its upper position. It bounces back by a very little - which is, of course, sufficient for the radio to detect it as a non-100% throttle (98.2 in my case). In the DiagAna screen, the value is 06A0 when I hold the stick in the upper position, and 0690 when I release it. I thought I could simply adjust the calibration values using eepskye, so that 0690 would mean 100%. But it appears not as simple as I thought it will be.

In the eepskye under the Calibration tab I see Analog 1 to Analog 8. I suspect Analog 1 to Analog 4 mean corresponding LH / LV / RV / RH as shown in the DiagAna screen on the radio (perhaps, it's worth to align the naming in eepskye to match the radio!). Then, the eepskye shows Negative, Mid and Positive values for each input. And that's where I'm lost, as, for example, for Analog 1 (I guess that's the LH) eepskye shows:
Negative = 630
Mid = 1038
Positive = 621

How shall I map these values to the actual readings in the DiagAna screen? Or is it something totally unrelated?

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jhsa
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

Normally when I have that issue the problem is the pot wire not being free enough.. Worth looking before you try anything else.
I agree that eepskye should display "LV, LH, RV, RH) just like the radio :) That is a good idea in my opinion.

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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Pot wire is not a problem. In my case, it's clearly the ratchet, I can feel it. When ratchet was disabled, there were no issues at all.

As a side note: with the ratchet engaged, Throttle control becomes "discrete". I feel there are something like 20 to 22 steps only. That's why I'm not sure if it will be convenient during a flight. Still, it's worth to check...
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jhsa
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

Well, i think it is normally used for fixed wing models.. With multirotors and helis, it is perhaps better to leave it disabled..
I do have it enabled on my radios but it is very subtil..
You could for example cut another flat piece of metal the same size as the original, but without the little bump, or just remove the little bump from the original part. Then just tighten it a little to create some friction. This will not limit the number of steps, but the throttle won't move freely..

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andrewju
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Well, there are two metal plates on the gimbals. One is for the friction, the other one enables ratchet:

Image

So I could easily go back to the "ratchet-less" setup. :)

Still, I wonder if there's a way to adjust calibration via eepskye (in case I will want to keep the ratchet).

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MikeB
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by MikeB »

OK, the DIAGANA screen shows the analog values in hex, x6A0 = 1696, x690 = 1680.
The LV stick should be analog 2.
For analog 1, you have:
630 = x276.
1038 = x40E.
621 = x26D.

This means the centre position (0%) is seen as 040E, with the max value (100%) as 040e+026D = 07B and the min value (-100%) as 040e-0276 = 0198.

If you reduce the positive value a bit, then the stick will reach 100% before the end of travel.
You indicate the throttle stick wants to be x690 rather than x6A0. This is 16 (decimal) less, so try reducing the analog 2 positive value, in eepskye, by 16.

Are you using the throttle reversed, so minimum throttle is with the stick fully up and you pull it towards you to open it?

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jhsa
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

yes you can, by manually changing the numbers. Download your eeprom, change the numbers in the general settings, burn the eeprom back to the radio.

Now if, you mean connecting the radio to the PC and calibrate the sticks, no there isn't :) ...yet.. ;)

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andrewju
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Ah, so that's how it works! Thank you, Mike! Now I get it!

Yes, Throttle stick is reversed on my radio (I use FrSky M9 gimbals). I adjusted the calibration manually, and the stick now behaves exactly as expected!
For the record, my "proper" values in eepskye for the Throttle (Analog 2) channel are: Negative = 608, Mid = 1049, Positive = 631


May I suggest a few improvements to eepskye? Two points that came to my mind regarding the Calibration tab:

1. Add a description to the names of the inputs (i.e. "ANALOG 2 (LV)" instead of just "ANALOG 2"). This will make it easier to understand which input is responsible for a particular stick direction.
2. Unless there are other reasons to keep it the way it is now, I would suggest eepskye to do the math and calculate Negative and Positive endpoints. I.e. if in my above example the Negative = 630, Mid = 1038 and Positive = 621, I would suggest to have it this way:
Negative = 408, Mod = 1038, Positive = 1659
Or even put it in hex:
Negative = 0x198, Mid = 0x40E, Positive = 0x67B
This will align the values in eepskye with whatever is displayed in DiagAna screen on the radio. Makes it a bit more intuitive, in my opinion.

Of course, neither of these is critical, nor urgent.


Thanks a lot!!!
Last edited by andrewju on Mon May 01, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

jhsa wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 2:16 pm Now if, you mean connecting the radio to the PC and calibrate the sticks, no there isn't :) ...yet.. ;)
Ha-ha! :D

Never even thought of this! And, honestly speaking, I'm not sure I want this option at all. :oops:
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jhsa
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

why not? :) ;)

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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

What for? :)
I don't want to use a PC to calibrate my radio! Unless I plan to control a model directly from my PC, but that's another story... :mrgreen:
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Oh! Another thing that came to my mind... This time for both the ersky9x and eepskye, although I checked it only in ersky9x so far. In fact, it's not even an issue. Just something unexpected that is rarely noticed in a day-to-day use.

The first thing I do after I install new gimbals is the calibration. So I turn the radio on, go directly to the Calibration menu and go through the calibration procedure. After that, I go to the main screen and check whether the new gimbals are behaving correctly. I check the stick displayed on the screen matches actual stick position, and (in some cases like the one with M9) I notice some stick direction needs a reverse. So I restart the radio with the Hardware menu enabled, go to the Hardware menu and set the reverse for the desired stick. After that, I go to the main screen again to check my gimbals are now functioning properly, and... I see the reversed stick doesn't get all the way to the top (or to the bottom) - so it needs to be calibrated again!

This is nothing to be concerned about and is very easy to do. But it always makes me curious of WHAT HAS ACTUALLY CHANGED?! I mean, it's still the same pot (or a Hall sensor), and still the same voltage applied to it. The only thing that changes is that the MAX is now MIN, and MIN is now MAX. In other words, hardware is still the same, it's purely logical interpretation that gets changed. So why does the calibration become off?!

I think I now understand why this happens. If I am correct, the reverse setting swaps MAX and MIN, but doesn't swap corresponding calibration values. So a negative calibration leg (as calibrated previously) is now applied to the positive actual throw, and a positive calibration leg is now applied to the negative actual throw. No wonder a new calibration is required!

For the sake of perfection, it will be good if the channel calibration values will swap as well when stick reverse setting is changed. So if a reverse was disabled and now gets enabled - calibration values need to swap. If a reverse was enabled and now gets disabled - they need to swap as well.

As I said, this is something that will likely only bother a few people, and only in some very special, rare, solitary cases. So this should probably have the lowest severity (if any). Can be easily left without a fix, if it implies some heavy coding or other (possible) complications.

Thanks!
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jhsa
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

I think you are doing at least one thing in the wrong order.
In my opinion the correct approach is to check the stick direction first, and then calibrate the sticks. That makes sense.
I believe the calibration wouldn't have only to swap negative to positive and vice versa.
Please take a pot as an example, imagine the pot is not exactly centered when the stick is a center. If you reverse it, not only the end points will be reversed but also the center, maybe because now one side of the stick can now travel 2mm more than the other side. There are tolerances and other factors that will make a difference, so I believe that a calibration is always needed..

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jhsa
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Re: RE: Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

andrewju wrote:What for? :)
I don't want to use a PC to calibrate my radio! Unless I plan to control a model directly from my PC, but that's another story... :mrgreen:
Nope, not to calibrate your radio, but can you imagine a better and more powerful processor for your radio than your computer? :mrgreen:
No I don't mean to fly the model with the computer, even if that would take us to another level :)
I for example program most of my models in eepskye with the model connected to the PC, and all surfaces controlled by eepskye. I like the ability i have now in eepskye to stop a stick moving in a certain direction, or make them all hehave like they had no spring and put them where I want. This is wonderful when programming a model, or even setting failsafe.
But sometimes I would like a radio to control eepskye, for example, when I want to move two sticks at the same time, and activate it by just clicking a "select external joystick" kind of button. It is not possible at the moment to move 2 sticks at the same time as we only have one mouse. :)
OpenTX does have the functionality to have a radio or a joystick controlling companion's simulator. You can calibrate it in companion, but it doesn't have the capability of communicating with a model like eepskye does. Funny that eepskye and companion would complete each other in this case.
Programming your model in eepskye, taking advantage of the mouse and big screen, and have the model connected so you can see directly what you are doing and seeing directly how the model/servos react, is just wonderful.. :)
And for that you just need an arduino, some pin headers for servo connection, and a FTDI adapter if you're not using an arduino nano or uno. Ahh a piece of stripboard to put all together.. Very easy. ;)
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andrewju
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

jhsa wrote: Tue May 02, 2017 5:41 am I think you are doing at least one thing in the wrong order.
In my opinion the correct approach is to check the stick direction first, and then calibrate the sticks. That makes sense.
I probably am doing it wrong, but that's somewhat automated in my brain... my intuition tells me to do it this way. :)
As I said, it's easy to fix by running a calibration when the issue is found. It simply that my way of doing it just gives me a strange (unexpected) interim result that feels wrong.
Please take a pot as an example, imagine the pot is not exactly centered when the stick is a center. If you reverse it, not only the end points will be reversed but also the center, maybe because now one side of the stick can now travel 2mm more than the other side.
This is exactly what I'm talking about!
Let's say we have a pot. Mid point is 500. Negative throw is 200, and positive throw is 300. Now, I go to the Hardware menu and reverse that pot. Its direction changes.
BUT: the radio STILL thinks negative throw is 200, and positive throw is 300.
So I have to calibrate the radio again, and only then it will see the "new" negative throw = 300 and positive throw = 200.

In fact, NOTHING has changed in hardware in my example above. So calibration values could have been reversed together with the stick reverse setting, saving me from having to calibrate my radio again.

Once again, this is not important, just something unusual that caught my eye.
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jhsa
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

You can do a test to see if it works. Just reverse a stick in hardware. It will lose calibration, right? Then download the eeprom onto eepskye, and swap the values. Burn the eeprom back to the radio. Is the stick again calibrated?
I bet it won't be ;) but I would like to be wrong.. :)

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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Your suggestion involves a change in hardware. In my example, the hardware is NOT touched at all. It's just the software configuration that is changing. That's exactly why my brain tells me it shouldn't be the way it is now.
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by jhsa »

No, it doesn't involve any hardware changes, you can't invert magnetic gimbals like you do with pots anyway...
You said that you inverted the stick in the hardware menu and it became not calibrated.
What I'm saying is with the current (correct) calibration, just invert the stick in the hardware menu, it will become out of calibration according to your post above, then download the eeprom onto eepskye, invert the calibration values there, burn the eeprom back to the radio, and see if the stick now is calibrated.. if so, then that could probably be done in software.. If not, then it might involve more than just inverting the values.

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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Ah, now I got your point! Will check tonight! :)
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Hmmm...

With the stick setup properly (reverse = on, calibrated afterwards), it has a throw from 990 to 2012 (looking at the values in the Limits screen of the model setup).
With the reverse = off (but calibration values still intact), it has a throw from 990 to 1962
With the reverse = off and calibration values swapped accordingly, it has a throw of 990 to 1980 - slightly better, but still not perfect... :(

In all of my experiments the DiagAna screen showed the full range from 0x16C to 0x650 (approximately).
Proper setup in my case is reverse = ON, calibration values: Negative = 608, Mid = 1049, Positive = 631.

So this calibration reverse thing is not as simple as I thought it is.
My brain still doesn't understand why this happens though...
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by MikeB »

The stick reverse is handled by changing the analog value that is normally 0-7FF to be 7FF-value (0-2047 becomes 2047-value).
This means you need to adjust the mid position as well as the throws. If your mid position is 1049 (1024+25), then the new mid position is 1024-25 = 999.

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andrewju
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Re: Is it possible to adjust calibration via eepskye?

Post by andrewju »

Late yesterday night I thought it must be related to the mid position being shifted as well! Ok, now it's clear!
My brain is finally happy with this! :)

Thanks, Mike!

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