The end of the DSM mod...

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ShowMaster
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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by ShowMaster » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:53 pm

So would this HK module have the same latency as the original Spektrum sold I wonder?
The point being that a post was made mentioning that it could be an issue with this module. I saw many flyers pver the years using the Spektrum module happily flying their retrofitted JR's.
I guess I'll/we'll find out when more are in use in the next few weeks.
With this product release can we conclude that the new rumored Turnigy system will still have a module bay?

So what's the best way to measure latency? I have a stock dx7 and a 9x that will take all my tx modules one being a real Spektrum tx deck.


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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Rob Thomson » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:16 pm

I have ordered one... So can compare it to the dm9 which I also have.

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:27 pm

ShowMaster wrote:The point being that a post was made mentioning that it could be an issue with this module.
Not "an issue" - Yes latency will be a bit bigger than native DSM due to the PPM signal, but... I mean, most 2.4GHz system of the past few years have worked that way, and it's perfectly fine. Internet people worrying about non-issues, as usual.
ShowMaster wrote:With this product release can we conclude that the new rumored Turnigy system will still have a module bay?
Maybe, maybe not. They could just as well integrate the same electronics right on the main board.

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by jhsa » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:29 pm

they probably will.. radios tend not to be modular lately
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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by sgofferj » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:48 pm

If somebody had the time and the patience - I'd be curious to know what the big fuzz is about. At rcgroups and diy-drones there's also lots of chatter about this new module... I still have the stock TX module and one stock RX. I was cautiously considering to get a FRSKY telemetry-enabled module and a corresponding RX but now I'm a bit irritated... As I'm planning to build a UAV with an APM I will anyways have some telemetry via XBee, so I guess I won't NEED the FRSKY...


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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Rob Thomson » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:55 pm

I think it is just that the module opens up then use of the bnf models that spectrum do... At a really low price.

Personally... I use frsky for all my primary models. But indo have a few bnf models.. So always good to have one :-D

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:00 pm

Exact. My first reason to come to the 9x was actually the ability to do the DSM mod, as I didn't want to buy a $600 Spektrum radio just to be able to fly one of the Efilte BnF planes (the one in my avatar).
Thay make many good and cheap planes and helis ready for use with receiver, and then get some of their money back on the radios that are quite expensive for what they are.

At your place I'd still use frsky instead of the stock turnigy stuff, even if only for the better reliability and adjustable failsafe. It's a whole other category really.

EDIT: One other reason, if HK's answer is true, the module is supposed to support up to 14 channels. There's no other cheap module that supports that many for the 9x or JR-based radios at this point.

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by sgofferj » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:07 pm

14 channels, like 14 sockets or 8 sockets plus some bus-socket? Great, now I have to start thinking about the remote too - the aircraft- and APM-stuff is already complicated enough for an R/C-inexperienced :D

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Gavinxman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:03 am

just ordered mine with 2 6ch rx . this is all i really need . now i can bind to HH planes and blade, and of course eflight . I stll will get the frsky and have both . Now i dont need to hack up my dx5 lol

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Rob Thomson » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:35 am

I personally am surprised no one did this sooner!

And why has spektrum seemingly stopped making the DM9!

No... The only negative of this module is the silly orange box!

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Re: Sv: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by dvogonen » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:08 pm

From a business perspective it makes perfect sense that the Spectrum module is no longer produced. I don't know if Futaba has stopped making theirs, but they sure will do so.

The reason for all manufacturers switching from analog to 2.4GHz when making modules was twofold. The first reason was to offer an upgrade path for old customers with module based (expensive) analog radios. The second was to lure customers with module compatible radios to join the manufacturers specific system. The 2.4GHz systems are closed, so once you have picked one you are hooked. Over time it becomes very expensive to switch system.
But that battle is pretty much over by now. Everyone has already decided to stay analog until their gear dies or upgraded. And few new radios from the big names are module based. The manufacturers do not want to make it possible to jump ship again, so module based gear from them is a thing of the past.

The only ones buying modules from now on are people like us, who buy a 50$ radio and upgrade it. It is unlikely that anyone who does not already own Spectrum gear would fork out twice the cost of the 9x radio to buy a Spectrum module. This means that for each Spectrum module sold, HorizonHobby loses a Spectrum radio sale. That is bad, bad business. Even worse; the customer might decide to try a high quality alternative in their module bay (FrSky comes to mind). From that moment on the customer is probably lost. Even worse business...

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Re: Sv: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:23 pm

dvogonen wrote:The second was to lure customers with module compatible radios to join the manufacturers specific system. The 2.4GHz systems are closed, so once you have picked one you are hooked.
Except that this is no longer true, so it will be interesting to see how the market develops.

Locking the users in worked perfectly well as long as they had to buy all their receivers from you... But we now have alternative receivers for all the major manufacturers (Spektrum, Futaba, Hitec). And I know several people who bought a Futaba radio, but never shelled a single $ on the expensive Futaba receivers.

Making module-less radios won't ensure any further sale anymore - so I'd well see the return of modules to attract people to the radios again at some point. And the majors willl have to do something to keep up with the new players like FrSky and their radios that will not only already have an excellent integrated RF system, but ALSO offer a module slot for you to reuse your other gear.

An FrSky radio with an HK DSM module in the slot will do everything you could need.

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Re: Sv: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by sgofferj » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:03 pm

Kilrah wrote:An FrSky radio with an HK DSM module in the slot will do everything you could need.
Except of running Open9x :D.
The more I play with open9x, the more I love it and I am actually thinking of projects which I could build with this or that function. I might even become an R/C-person after all :D.

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Re: Sv: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by dvogonen » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:06 pm

Yes, that is true. Times are changing quickly and what makes sense today may seem stupid tomorrow. Besides the factors mentioned the new BNF models for Spectrum and Futaba is probably a better income source than the radios themselves. Being limited to sell planes for one radio system makes no sense if people have no way of switching.
Who knows, someone may introduce multi system RXs that are compatible with several systems at once. Perfect for BNF use and for people who want to be able to switch systems. I would buy such RXes, if they existed. In practice today's 2.4GHz RXes are compatible with several protocols already, since the manufacturers have added protocols over time. Wouldn't a FrSky /Spectrum /FAAST RX be a great thing?

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by ShowMaster » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:17 pm

I just got confirmation my 2 orange DSM modules are being shipped.
I bought 2 in case one doesn't work since I do want to try a working one.
Some years ago after getting shot down with turn on's I left 72 MHz and flew only 6 Meters. I had my ham license.
It was easier to find JR 6 meter modules so I went all JR module TXs.
I bought many JR modular TXs, new and at club swap meets.
I do own a Dx7 but with all the module options I'm enjoying flying the older TXs again for if nothing else, the fun of it.
As it stands now my JR unlimited 8, Circus Hobby 6 Ch, my pcm10, and my FlySky's 9x can all share 2.4 operation now. Frsky or DSM while my JR's can also fly on 6 meters.
One down side of yesteryear is the older gear is so heavy to hold. I'm so spoiled by the light TXs we fly now. I guess I'll have to break out all those neck straps I own. I have many JR straps and for a while a few years ago HK put a free one in with a of my orders.
Ok, sorry to have wandered off.
So,
DSM2 is not my favorite for reasons we all know, Frsky is my current favorite but having so many options plug and play is so great I have to at least try the new orange DSM module.
SM




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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:43 pm

sgofferj wrote: Except of running Open9x :D.
Nono, this is planned too :grin:

Once it's done, and we've implemented some model setup wizard on the radio for beginners, there will be no other radio worth considering :mrgreen:

I've ordered a DSM module today too in prevision :)

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by cloudflying » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:26 pm

Got mine in the mail today. Seems to work great. Passes range check and binds to all the receivers I have tried so far. Hope to do some more testing tomorrow.

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Clivew » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:43 pm

By fitting a module from a DX4E into a 9x (or in a plug in DM9 case,
if you use this one SPK 6817 you get a far better aerial position too)
and get model match, 6 channels with DX7 latency and DSMx.
Also, you can bind and range check without fiddling around at the back.
Lower power consumption as well I guess?
Personally, i think pmackensie's mod was one of the best :D

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:58 pm

The only benefit the DX4e module has is latency and model match, really. If that's needed of course.

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by ShowMaster » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:09 pm

Does the orange module have model match?

I ordered one and its shipped just to play with. I've already built up a dx4e module but had be x RXs to try, that's next.
I the orange module does it all I may restore the dx4e back to its original state and decide what to do with it?
I only want the BNF option and plan to stay Frsky for everything else.



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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Rob Thomson » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:15 pm

No.

It uses a ppm link so exactly like the dm9 module.

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:22 pm

I'm impressed by the number of people who ask about whether this thing has model match - what's so special about it? I have model match with my DX4e module, but it annoyed me more than anything so I never use it...

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Rob Thomson » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Horizon marketing for you. They have made model match out to be more than it is :-D

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Kilrah » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:32 pm

OK, that's what I thought too ;)

They're definitely better for marketing than for making radios, that's for sure...

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Clivew » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:46 pm

Model match I see as an added safety feature, isn't that good? I agree about their radios though!

That latest DM9 module case does at least put the aerial where it should be! ;)

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by kaos » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:49 am

I agree the model matching is an 'annoying thing' than usefulness. I keep forgetting I need to set a specific model with a specific model number. If I have an empty spot somewhere else, without model matching, I can just load that model into an empty spot instead of have to move the model in that spot away 1st then load the model matching model. I may get the orange module just because of that and put my DX4e module to sleep. ;) Imagine once the er9x or its variant can start to load model setting from the SD, how troublesome it would be with model matching.
Especially with voice capable T9x, it announces the model name. If a flyer still 'd**b' enough to fly it. I don't know what to say. ;)

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by ShowMaster » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:12 am

About model match. As long as you don't misplace your keys, or worse find them and can't remember what they go to, or leave the house with your zipper down, or can't remember why you went to a room for something, your OK with out it.
For those that do however it seems to have saved many a nice planes from the worng memory being selected.
SM

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by Clivew » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:24 am

Couldn't agree more Showmaster!

It's for us old gits! Sorry, you may be 23 for all I know :roll:

I'm 68 soon!

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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by ShowMaster » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:34 am

Clivew wrote:Couldn't agree more Showmaster!

It's for us old gits! Sorry, you may be 23 for all I know :roll:

I'm 68 soon!
You kids!


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Re: The end of the DSM mod...

Post by kaos » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:59 am

that is is exactly where it is annoying. If I can't remember what i went into a room for, which happens to me a lot ;), how can I remember which number I set that model up with. :lol:

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