DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by Rob Thomson » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:59 pm

Yup.

Its a dual receiver (boscam - 32ch)

The clover I an just got for close in when the tracker lags.

You will like my 'other' helical antenna. (Attached)

4 3 turn helical, with a quad receiver to give 360 cover.

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:36 pm

Nice assortment of equipment you have.
Put all of your antenna out there in a circle around you, linked with some multi diversity circuit, you will never loose a link. :D

You are not crazy. You are nuts. ;) :lol: :lol:

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:54 pm

kaos wrote:Skyscraper:
in regard to mavlink to frysky conversion using Arduno. Does that only convert Ardupilot mavlink data? or multiwii will work as well?
also, does that only convert GPS data or all the telemetry data from the FCB? I can't figure out from the linked source site.
IF that works for multiwii board and converts all the telemetry data (GPS,volt,amp, accel, temp ....) I may just go ahead and make one just to get my multiwii FCB telemetry data to my Frysky telemetry and try. ;)
I did 2 versions of the Arduino firmware one to listen in on Mavlink and one that connects direct to GPS, but the hardware is the same.

The Mavlink version is
mavlink_to_frsky
The Mavlink code is based on the MinimOSD code and much of the data acquired isnt necessary for this job, so could be removed

The GPS version is
quantracker_air

In the Mavlink version, you connect the airborne unit to the APM telemetry port, which is just a TTL serial port. In the GPS version you connect to a GPS. I have only written code for a MTK3329 chipset though. An alternative option might be to use the Ardupilot GPS libraries to auto detect the GPS ..

As Rob says my new version sends telemetry down one of the AV audio channels and can send the FrSky data too. In the one I am combining the Mavlink and GPS into the one unit, so you can set it up in various ways. I'm using a stm32 for this since the chip is cheaper than the atmega328 and much more powerful.

I plan to add the new version into the quantracker repo, as well as the sim stuff to tidy things up a bit.

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:56 pm

Great. Keep us updated. I think I am going to make (more precisely 'copy') one as you go along. ;)
Hope you are considering a 270 degree tilt with another motor.
With 270 degree tilt, there should not be any sudden turn around of one or the other tracking servo/motor which I see just about every tracking system has because of the limited tilt/pan mechanism. Unless you put the tracking tripod on the Grand Canyon Skywalk. :mrgreen:

and my GPS on the quad just happens to be a MK3329. ;) I have one extra set of vTx/rx can test your code when it is ready. I just need to load MPNG to my quad. I was using multiwii, but have been thinking switching to MPNG for a while (side tracked by other RC project). I think now it is a good time to do that. ;) Only I have a HK AIOP board and loading the MPNG is a little tricky than a normal Multiwii board. I am working/reading on it.

since the GPS version is the easiest one. i will start working on that just to get familiar with this whole thing/idea. Everything we are talking here are fairly new to me. Won't hurt to learn from the simple one.

Mike is working on the code for displaying GPS data and heading using mavlink to frysky telemetry port in er9x/sky9x right at this moment I just read. ;) It seems everything is falling all together at the same time. ;)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:02 am

OK, after reading Skyscraper's web site regarding all the components needed, all are listed as UK or Euro store which is hard/heavy shipping cost to US. So I compiled a list of the components that are available to US for anyone who is interested. If there is any wrong/incompatible components, or cheaper source please correct.

STM32F4DISCOVERY:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F4DISCOVER ... 35cf73ecff
12.5mm 12*2A 12 Wires 2 amps 12 Conductors Capsule Tiny Slip Ring 220V AC 250Rpm:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-5mm-12-2A-12 ... 3747711%26
Dual H Bridge DC Stepper Motor Drive:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-H-Bridge-D ... 3a879e236f
Turntable Bearing Kit + Metal 12-Tooth Pinion
http://www.vexrobotics.com/276-1810.html
http://www.vexrobotics.com/276-2251.html
TURNIGY 3A UBEC w/ Noise Reduction:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=33297
Pro Mini atmega328 5V 16M:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130839929399?ss ... 1439.l2649
1 to 4 Car DVD LCD TV Video Monitor Amplifier Booster Distribution RCA Splitter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-to-4-Car-DVD- ... 4acaf2d361
2.54mm 2 x 40 Pin Female Double Row Pin Header:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POPULAR-10pcs-2 ... 54020b5c2a
5V MAX3232 RS232 Serial Port To TTL Converter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-MAX3232-RS23 ... 4179fa14b5
29:1 Metal Gearmotor 37Dx52L mm with 64 CPR Encoder 12V 365rpm:
http://www.amazon.com/29-Gearmotor-37Dx ... 12V+365rpm

that is a total of 132.24. (with extra 10 12-tooth- pinions for you to drop to the crevices on the floor ;) )
if use 2nd motor for tilt, add another motor,bearing,driver that is 53.53
a total of 185.77
add material for pan/tilt tray /hardware/wires. surely add two helical/pan antenna,

then add tons of trouble to make it and screw ups along the process. :mrgreen:

But with TONS of FUN. ;)


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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:03 am

Great stuff Will add the pricing and links to materials to my website. As regards the data protocol, It would be nice to get One Open protocol for this task! To start the ball rolling, I have written some info about the protocols I am using for the tracker.

Zoomworks Aircraft Position Protocol

The ZAPP1 protocol has proved very reliable for sending the data down the FrSky link, but I am keen to try the ZAPP2 which uses a stronger checksum and a constant length packet, which helps due to the lower baud rate I will have on the FSK audio channel. I am now however committed to being backward compatible with ZAPP1 for the FrSky link, since there are various bits of software around for it now

But any suggestions or thoughts welcome on this subject!

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by LTMNO » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:55 pm

Amazing. Can't wait to try this.
9x-m128 / TeZ / SP Rev 2.4 / Rotary Encoder / Haptic / MegaSound9x(Serial) / er9x
9x-m128 / 9XTreme / ersky9x(Mavlink)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:27 am

found a cheaper priced motor with free shipping to many coutry, UK included: http://www.sainsmart.com/29-1-metal-gea ... 65rpm.html

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:18 pm

I am thinking about this again. Here is a question.
If a mega 2560 has the processing power (?), why not use a AIOP CB with GPS in the tracker as control board? Then you have all the sensors in there and automatic set up would be a breeze. More than that, you don't need to worry about if the tracker is level or not. Further, the tracker can be put on a mobile unit and still track perfectly. ;) It knows its position, attitude all the time to aim the tracker to the plane and probably better accuracy if a high precision baro is on the board and the plane.
these AIOP board are getting cheap now. A multiwii mega AIOP with high precision baro (MS5611) can be had for 46.00 at HK. probably cheaper than buying the sensors individually. any thoughts?

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by Kilrah » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:24 pm

Totally possible.
You write the firmware? :P

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:41 pm

I certainly can, if you can wait for another 20 yrs. :P
Skyscraper and Rob would be the best person to do that. ;) It seems to me the code already include GPS and possible magnetometer, just need the accelero data. If the code can be written for ARM board porting to mega should not be that hard? ;)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by Rob Thomson » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:31 pm

Lol. I would not be best.

My low level programing is at best rubbish :)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:39 pm

that left Skyscraper. ;) But I think Kilrah just hinted volunteering. :mrgreen:

Rob: I don't care it is rubbish or nerdish, as long as it works. :lol:

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:11 am

or may be use the ARM board and add this sensor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/310625639429?ss ... 1438.l2649

then no code needs to be ported and still slightly cheaper than a AIOP board. ;)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by jhsa » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:07 am

Rob Thomson wrote:Lol. I would not be best.

My low level programing is at best rubbish :)

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lol you should see my low level. :D then you will think that your low level is a high level after all. :mrgreen:

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:54 pm

kaos wrote:OK, after reading Skyscraper's web site regarding all the components needed, all are listed as UK or Euro store which is hard/heavy shipping cost to US. So I compiled a list of the components that are available to US for anyone who is interested. If there is any wrong/incompatible components, or cheaper source please correct.

STM32F4DISCOVERY:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F4DISCOVER ... 35cf73ecff
12.5mm 12*2A 12 Wires 2 amps 12 Conductors Capsule Tiny Slip Ring 220V AC 250Rpm:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-5mm-12-2A-12 ... 3747711%26
Dual H Bridge DC Stepper Motor Drive:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-H-Bridge-D ... 3a879e236f
Turntable Bearing Kit + Metal 12-Tooth Pinion
http://www.vexrobotics.com/276-1810.html
http://www.vexrobotics.com/276-2251.html
TURNIGY 3A UBEC w/ Noise Reduction:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=33297
Pro Mini atmega328 5V 16M:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130839929399?ss ... 1439.l2649
1 to 4 Car DVD LCD TV Video Monitor Amplifier Booster Distribution RCA Splitter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-to-4-Car-DVD- ... 4acaf2d361
2.54mm 2 x 40 Pin Female Double Row Pin Header:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POPULAR-10pcs-2 ... 54020b5c2a
5V MAX3232 RS232 Serial Port To TTL Converter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-MAX3232-RS23 ... 4179fa14b5
29:1 Metal Gearmotor 37Dx52L mm with 64 CPR Encoder 12V 365rpm:
http://www.amazon.com/29-Gearmotor-37Dx ... 12V+365rpm

that is a total of 132.24. (with extra 10 12-tooth- pinions for you to drop to the crevices on the floor ;) )
if use 2nd motor for tilt, add another motor,bearing,driver that is 53.53
a total of 185.77
add material for pan/tilt tray /hardware/wires. surely add two helical/pan antenna,

then add tons of trouble to make it and screw ups along the process. :mrgreen:

But with TONS of FUN. ;)
It is fun to build and very satisfying when your plane is flying out there and the tracker is working nicely. Here is my PB using a 25 mW 5.8GHz VTx:

FPV Personal Best on 25 mW 5.8 GHz Vtx

Thanks greatly for the links. I have added them in to the Tracker Bill of Materials page.

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by jhsa » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:05 pm

Woow! Over 1km with 25mW? Nice ;)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:10 am

I think that would be quite enough for me using my 200mW VTx. ;)

I like your Skywalker Falcon. but it is only available in Germany/Aus from HK not US. Anyone knows a source for US on a Skywalker Falcon?
The Skywalker X8 is just too big for me. Falcon is just right. ;)

EDIT:
After a few days with different search name, I did find a Skywalker Falcon on ebay that will ship to US (world wide) with the same price as HK (shipping calculated in):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121230356814?ss ... 1438.l2649

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:04 pm

Thanks for the compliments on the 1.35 km flight with 25 mW Video transmitter! It is partly down to the Immersion Uno V2 video receiver, which is more sensitive than the previous model. I think it should easily be possible to improve on it since there was very little video break up and the main worry was the FrSky link which beeped a few times. But even there things are better since I got sorted to read the RSSI into my Autopilot and so can see the RSSI displayed in the goggles. I read somewhere you dont need to worry until it dips below 40% and I was in the 50 - 60 range.

Since I was asked by a couple of people, I put up some details of the helical antenna I used for the flight on my site. It only cost about £1 to make, and can be bult in maybe an hour or so.

5.8 GHz 7 turn tin can helical antenna

As regards the plane, it is actually a prototype from http://www.flyingwings.co.uk. Here is a video of it on test flights. Customised Flyingwings Falcon, but they havent released the plane yet as far as I know. But I may get a Slipstream from them. A friend of mine had one of those and I always liked it. They are both basically just chunks of EPP foam, but really nice and robust for FPV.

Also should be getting pcbs for my new airborne telemetry board back from OSH Park soon, so I hope that I can be testing out the FSK audio telemetry for the tracker after christmas.

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:02 pm

Weird~~
how did that 'Skylark Falcon' name and shape popped into my head?? :? Never saw/heard that before until I 'thought' I saw in your video. :?
Must be 'godsend' X'mas gift for me. :mrgreen: ordered one any way. I like that shape and size, with a little mod, it has good potential for medium range FPV and aerobatic . ;)
It will be my test bed for the antenna tracker. ;)

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:03 am

kaos wrote:Weird~~
how did that 'Skylark Falcon' name and shape popped into my head?? :? Never saw/heard that before until I 'thought' I saw in your video. :?
Must be 'godsend' X'mas gift for me. :mrgreen: ordered one any way. I like that shape and size, with a little mod, it has good potential for medium range FPV and aerobatic . ;)
It will be my test bed for the antenna tracker. ;)
I believe its a good plane, but I have heard you have to keep it flying fast ( and it is pretty quick too! ). If you fly too slow it wants to flip a wing tip, but who wants to fly slow anyway. 8-)

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:36 pm

here is a vid of some testing of parts for my V3 antenna tracker. I am planning to make as many parts as possible for this one on a 3D printer. I hope that way to reduce the cots and also the size. (Sorry about the poor video quality.. done on my phone...)

Video of pan gears and motor test piece for V3 antenna tracker

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:47 am

Now I need to spend $900.00 to buy a 3D printer to make the tracker! 8-)

Here is a preview of your tracker tester ;), my SUPER FALCON:
140109.jpg
140117-7.jpg
140121-3.jpg
140121-2.jpg

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by Rob Thomson » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:54 am

skyscraper wrote:here is a vid of some testing of parts for my V3 antenna tracker. I am planning to make as many parts as possible for this one on a 3D printer. I hope that way to reduce the cots and also the size. (Sorry about the poor video quality.. done on my phone...)

Video of pan gears and motor test piece for V3 antenna tracker

regards
Andy
Is the plan for that unit to screw to the tripod?

Looks a bit like the foot of a skylark.

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:51 am

kaos wrote:Now I need to spend $900.00 to buy a 3D printer to make the tracker! 8-)
]
:lol: You can still use ply. Even with upgrades I hope things will be compatible. But you have to buy the gears which tends to fix the motor size etc etc..

If you can get access to a printer, the 3d printed version shuld be cheaper ( no need to buy the gears) and smaller (you can make stuff the size you want) and even customisable in size for
different size fpv gear. I really like the idea of a pocket sized tracker.. As to how to get 3D printed parts I will have to look into how to source those without a printer, but I will sure make all the 3d printing files available. Dont know how much it would be get them done at at Shapeways etc
kaos wrote: Here is a preview of your tracker tester ;), my SUPER FALCON:
140109.jpg
140117-7.jpg
140121-3.jpg
140121-2.jpg
looks fast:) Love the undercarriage.. Have you got a runway to take off from?

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:56 am

Rob Thomson wrote:
skyscraper wrote:here is a vid of some testing of parts for my V3 antenna tracker. I am planning to make as many parts as possible for this one on a 3D printer. I hope that way to reduce the cots and also the size. (Sorry about the poor video quality.. done on my phone...)

Video of pan gears and motor test piece for V3 antenna tracker

regards
Andy
Is the plan for that unit to screw to the tripod?

Looks a bit like the foot of a skylark.

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Its just a test piece. I wasnt sure if the printer output would be good enough to make the gears. Now I am going to see how small I can make a tracker for 5.8 GHz, but I'm designing it in OpenSCAD so if I get it right you can tailor it to your size gear by changing a couple of parameters... so much for the plan :)

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:28 pm

skyscraper wrote: I really like the idea of a pocket sized tracker..
Absolutely! :)
skycraper wrote:looks fast:) Love the undercarriage.. Have you got a runway to take off from?
Yes, I have access to a run way at my fly club. but the wheels are actually removable, so you can fly it for grass landing too. When flying medium range FPV, I probably will fly without gears to reduce weight. The modded motor mount is for use of 3 different power plant with 2 screw quick change: a 2826 2200kv 3S with 6x4 for longer duration, a 70 mm EDF with Thrust Vectoring and a 2836 2700kv 4.75x4.75 with 4S both should give approximately 1.1 Kg of thrust for SPD. ;)
but the fly character is yet to be tested after the added the wing surface area and weight of added CF reenforcement from the stock.

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:58 am

Currently Work in progress on the tracker V3 includes a new airborne unit, a 3D printed case and adding a compass to the ground side. I'm trying to do all 3 in parallel so its taking a while. Here anyway is a video of work so far on the compass...

Tracker compass work in progress

regards
Andy

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by kaos » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:35 pm

It is looking good.
What is that 'airborne unit'? OSD with GPS feed back via audio ch? ;)

It takes me 'a while' just to build my tracker tester - Super Falcon. But now it is done. Also waiting for the weather to test fly it. ;)
Attachments
140207-1.jpg

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Re: DIY Antenna project with FrSky Telemetry

Post by skyscraper » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:36 am

Falcon looking good. landing gear should work well fro the maiden if you have a runway to launch from too!

The airborne unit is designed to take "some form of serial GPS input" and then to send it out to "some output channels" which then transmit it to the ground.

The some form of inputs I currently have is to either plug a GPS direct to it ( you could also set it up to listen to a GPS attached to something else) or to read the Mavlink protocol data from an Ardupilot or PixHawk etc. The board has an eeprom on it so you can have various configs. There are 2 simultaneous outputs possible One is a serial port output (which with my initial software sends data to the FrSky telemetry receiver). The other output is an audio waveform which you can send down your Video audio channel.

Below is a picture of the board which I got done by OSHPark. They are outstanding boards and very cheap too. The actual size is about 42 mm x 17 mm. The pic shows the front and back. Another thing to finish of!
airborne_unit.jpg


I also realise I havent really provided details of how to physically wire up the STM32F4 Discovery for the Tracker ground part so I should try and get around to that ASAP :)

regards
Andy

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