Arduino Due add on to 9X

er9x is the best known firmware. It has a superb range of features and is well supported by the community. Well worth trying out.
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

Yeah, I think 6V might not be enough for the frsky modules :(

$55 per unit is quite expensive.. It does look good though.
Well, we could always start a poll and ask if people would build their own radio :) Of course, it is not for everybody unless someone produces boards ;) I would be quite comfortable soldering not so small SMD. I think 0805 would still go.. I managed a 0603 resistor on the pro's amplifier circuit ;) But I guess many won't be able to.. But it would be nice if there was a board for those who can't solder small stuff. Or in this case 2 boards at least.

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but we can get a Taranis case for $15. The downside that I see is that FrSky may just stop offering it as a spare part once they see the "alternative" system becomes popular.

Other than that, Taranis case could be a "quick and easy" solution. We can use their gimbals and their LCD as well.


Keeping it 9x-oriented, I would vote for a completely redesigned back board, or maybe the new mainboard. Or maybe even both (like the SkyBoard AND a new back board, if that will give more flexibility).
I tried to create a new power switch board (as I shared in the sound module topic) - it is good for the sound module and a few more goodies on it. But I think this one will be too small to fit all the parts we may want to fit...
User avatar
Kilrah
Posts: 11108
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:56 pm
Country: Switzerland

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by Kilrah »

The big question is how much do you want to DIY, what exactly, why etc and the problem is that anybody who'd be up to it will want his own dfferent "flavor" of involvement.

There's a lot of possible combinations between buying a Taranis and using it as is or building your radio from scratch including case, circuitry and software à la Thobois.
Many people have reused the Taranis guts and put them in a custom case. You might want to get the Taranis case and rebuild/design boards that will pretty much come out pretty similar in capabilities than what the Taranis boards do, so why reinvent the wheel... You can also redesign yet a new firmware from scratch if you feel like.

If you just want to DIY because you want to DIY instead of buying something that's anywhere close to something mass-produced then DIY for good... only you can know exactly what you want, and it likely won't be anywhere the same as the next guy in the same mood.
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

Open source radio would be something we would call "ours" , but please, NOT the taranis case with all those horrible buttons. It's terrible. And no space for a decent encoder like the one we have on the 9x. That was one of the reasons I didn't want the radio. I have been saving some money for the Horus, but if a open source project comes along I will be more than happy to spend that money on it, if my wife doesn't find it first. :)
I also don't like the LCD format on the taranis. I would prefer the 9x format but bigger. The only thing I would use from the taranis are the gimbals and perhaps the sliders. I would like to be able to adjust the taranis gimbals to be a bit smaller like on the pro. This radio might be ugly but it feels much better in my hands than the taranis.The switches are good but the ones from HK also do the job. Never had one fail. As a thumb flyer I would like to experiment the trims on the back of the radio. I just modded one of my 9x's to have 2 extra momentary switches on the back and a 3 position ELE switch instead of a 2 position.
Buying the taranis and developing new firmware for it, if I understood what Kilrah meant, is no different from what has been done until now.

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

Good point - I also like the rotary encoder on the 9x !


Mike, what do you think of all this? I have two 9x radios I wanted to mod with m2561, rotary encoder and a powersound. I'm not in a hurry, so if there is a decision to go with a new add-on board - I'd be happy to use these two radios as a test stand for whatever will be decided here instead.

User avatar
magnetus
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:10 am
Country: United States
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by magnetus »

I do too have 2 9x radios. I started to mod 1 with arduvoice (previous a megasound but never worked), I ordered some pcb for rotary encoder that are on their way already , I have a m128 and backlight installed. this radio also have a removable rf module and I have an orange, a DHT and the original turnigy module.

I also order an m2561 for my other radio but will wait until all this get some form to know what way to go with it. I really appreciate all the effort that you guys are doing.
Miguel
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

Look what is expecting you ;)
m2561_1.jpg
The first 3 wires on the left are for the encoder, the 4th is just in case I want haptic, or something else I would like to use that pin for. The 5th and 6th wires counting from the left are for the telemetry mod..
This chip was actually bad and I had to and replace it :(
There's also another wire at the top on the 3rd pin counting from the right (pin 35) Used it to convert the ELE switch to 3 position. This wire is not shown on this photo.
The 2 wires on the left side of the chip are for the serial communication with the voice module. Note that I removed the resistors. Not sure if that is necessary but I had some problems when I was testing the ArduVoice and I thought they could be the cause, so I've removed them.

João
m2561_3.jpg
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

The idea here is to keep things simple, make it easy to add yet provide a flexible and powerful add on to the 9X. The processor here will take over most of the processing from the original ATMEGA64.
General arrangement:
9XArm.png
(4.37 KiB) Downloaded 22 times
9XArm.png
2nd revision
(5.09 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
It is fairly easy to remove existing wiring from the JST connector housing, so my current idea is to place some JST header plugs on the board, then we just need to route some existing wires into a new housing so they will plug in. Some soldering will still be needed, but hopefull only a few wires.

Regarding the audio output, on the Megasound board, the volume is handled in software, simply reducing the output signal level as required. Rather than add an extra digital pot for the volume, I think we can do the same here. The CPU will run at 120MHz, so scaling a 256 sample buffer should only take around 20uS.

It is likely we could route the 4 sticks analog signals directly to this board. Switches, pots and the LCD should work fine over the serial connection.

So, keep the complexity, and therefore hopefully the cost, down, and make it easy to add.

My current thought is to have this board mount over the back board, using the 4 screw places of the back board to fix it.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

I can see the idea ;) but it doesn't leave much space to put the DHT module? :(

What about designing a board that fits on top of the main board instead? We have the full length of it. with spacers and longer screws. That would minimize the cables.. Maybe even some connectors could run directly into the connectors of the 9x main board.. There is space enough in there.
I believe that processor is already USB capable, right?

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

And I guess we could even flash the 9x mainboard from the new one? Also I believe the telemetry goes directly into the STM board? Don't forget an RTC.. :) SD Card socket could be soldered directly to the new board. We would need to move the 5V regulator and the 3.3V regulator to the new board. 5 volts for the 9X main board and the 3.3V reg for the STM and 9x LCD.

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
User avatar
magnetus
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:10 am
Country: United States
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by magnetus »

Miguel
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

I just had a look inside my 9x (again) and thought of a different way...

- the stock backboard will anyway need to be modified in case if one wants to reuse RF module pins for telemetry (I think it's the most common case). It also may need to be cut if one installs Taranis gimbals. Cutting may also involve re-wiring of some tracks on the board.

- the stock switchboard will need to be modified - at least the power switch needs to be replaced if we will have a soft-switch. Also, this board holds beeper and a VR that will likely never be used.

I think it may be a much neater solution if there will be a new back board (a little narrower than the stock one, if possible) and a new switch board that will replace the stock one. The CPU and all telemetry-related stuff could be located on the back board, and the audio amplifier and the power switch will be located on the switch board (moving the audio amplifier away from RF noise and closer to the speaker). There will be an extra flat cable connecting these boards together. It will leave plenty of room for extra modules and components in the case...

P.S. Switch board can be made quite big if needed - about 10cm x 4.5cm, although it won't be square.
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

I've added a 2nd revision diagram to the above post. I've added a power switch to the module bay power, and added (what would have been PPM2) as an internal PPM + power switch for an internal module. I've also shown the USB connection to the processor. RTC is internal to the processor, hence the 32kHz crystal and the battery.
The SD card socket would be on the board.
I can see no advantage to moving the existing voltage regulation, only added complexity in installation.
I also think we can use the 64 pin version of the processor. This is much easier to solder on a board than the 100 pin version and we shouldn't need all the extra signals, I reckon we only need around 30 I/O pins and the 64 pin chip has 51 available.

At this point I have no idea how big this board might be, we should keep it as small as is reasonable as the PCB cost is likely to be proportional the the area of the board.

I thought about doing a new backboard, but that has complications with the trainer jack socket being mounted on a daughter board, so a replacement would become more expensive.

With the way the power switch is wired I believe we can add a soft power switch without needing to replace the switch board.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

andrewju wrote:I just had a look inside my 9x (again) and thought of a different way...

- the stock backboard will anyway need to be modified in case if one wants to reuse RF module pins for telemetry (I think it's the most common case). It also may need to be cut if one installs Taranis gimbals. Cutting may also involve re-wiring of some tracks on the board.
You only need to cut one of the module pins from ground, that's it. And why do you need to cut the back board to install the taranis gimbals? :shock: :o That is negative.. I have installed the gimbals on one of my 9x and only trimmed a little plastic part on the gimbal itself.. It fits perfectly, no need to cut the backboard..
- the stock switchboard will need to be modified - at least the power switch needs to be replaced if we will have a soft-switch. Also, this board holds beeper and a VR that will likely never be used.
Also negative, the switch is exactly the same.. The soft power doesn't work the way you are thinking.. And I wouldn't trust a radio that did :)

The power switch overrides the soft switch when ON.. The soft switch only normally keeps the radio on for a while when saving settings AFTER we turned the power switch off..
We don't want the radio turning OFF on us if there is some problem ;)

I think it may be a much neater solution if there will be a new back board (a little narrower than the stock one, if possible) and a new switch board that will replace the stock one. The CPU and all telemetry-related stuff could be located on the back board, and the audio amplifier and the power switch will be located on the switch board (moving the audio amplifier away from RF noise and closer to the speaker). There will be an extra flat cable connecting these boards together. It will leave plenty of room for extra modules and components in the case...

P.S. Switch board can be made quite big if needed - about 10cm x 4.5cm, although it won't be square.
as I said before the cables needed between the 2 halves can be greatly reduced if we keep this board on top of the existing mainboard.. Otherwise it will be a cable run from hell between both sides of the radio.. On the main board we already have available:
-Battery power
-All the connections to the module bay. so we could even switch between an internal and an external module easily.
-All the connections to switches and pots on the back of the radio
-the connections to the trainer port

Basically all we need is available on the mainboard already.. the cables between the 2 sides of the radio would be minimal if we take advantage of the existing connections available. even the serial connection would be kept on the front half of the radio..

Like Mike said, let's keep it simple.. The Amplifier, SD Card, RTC, eeprom, Usb, and all the rest could be place on the new board. No need to complicate things.. Plus, all gimbals connections are also already on the front half of the radio. If we want to connect them to the STM, there is no need to route everything to the back of the radio..

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

MikeB wrote: I can see no advantage to moving the existing voltage regulation, only added complexity in installation.
I only mentioned it because:
I guess the STM is powered by 3.3V? so is the SD Card.. I don't think the original 5V regulator is up to the task..
We need at least 5V for the audio amp. I don't think 3.3V is a good option. The LM386 is working very well on 5V.
I will replace the 5V regulator on the mainboard on all my 9x radios anyway.. the original is not low dropout, and I think there is no need to use 3 cells lithium or 8 cells NiMh to power this setup.
Also as you know I have been experimenting with hall effect sensors on the gimbals. The original regulator possibly can't cope with the extra current draw.. I haven't had much success with it yet though.. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the original gimbals?? :) But I'm trying.. I have some ideas.. ;) :)

João

EDIT: Or we don't move the regulators but the STM board must have its own regulator from Battery voltage?
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

I do show "Voltage Regulation" in a box on the diagram! I was assuming it would have its own regulator(s).

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

I must have missed it, sorry ;)

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

Yeah, maybe my idea to replace both the switch board and the back board is not worth it...

I think I had a different understanding of a "soft switch" initially. Now I see how you want to reuse the stock one - makes sense, indeed!

P.S. I guess I mixed Taranis gimbals with some other that required the mod of the back board in order to fit into the 9x... I recall I saw a report somewhere (even a few ones), but I can't find it now... So please disregard that comment of mine... Sorry!
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

I've just been checking on the processor (STM32F205). I see most of the I/O pins are 5V tolerant, so this limits the need for voltage translation in many places, particularly the serial to the M64.

I've started putting a circuit together. It will take a while as I'll probably need to create some symbols and package footprints, e.g. I can't find a footprint for the SD card socket, and I've already needed to create a symbol for the processor. I'll post some progress as I go along.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

So, you mean that we wouldn't need a level converter between the two boards?

Thanks

João

P.S: - did a little search, might help

https://github.com/chiengineer/Eagle-Li ... Connectors

Or try the attached one. Any good?
Attachments
sd.zip
(1.61 KiB) Downloaded 167 times
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

Mike,

I recently made an Eagle footprint for an Attend 112J-TDAR-R microSD socket. I can share it, if interested.

If you have any other model in mind - I can work on the footprint, if you point me to the datasheet (not only for the microSD socket, BTW).
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

Thank you both. I have an old version of EAGLE (4.16), but it is the full version so I still use it. The SD card socket(s) I have (Amphenol) don't match any of those footprints, but it won't take me long to knock up a correct footprint, I've often needed to create new footprints and I have a drawing of the required pad layout.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

Mike,

I believe you can have multiple versions of Eagle installed. So you can download and install the freeware edition of current Eagle release (7.2) and use it for smaller boards, or at least to open other projects when you have such a need.
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

Yes, I do have 7.1 light installed as well.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

Mike,

Can you tell me the model of the Amphenol microSD sockets you have? I'm putting up a small order at Digikey - I may add some spare microSD sockets in, as I foresee troubles finding a specific socket type locally.

Thanks!
User avatar
MikeB
9x Developer
Posts: 17990
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:24 pm
Country: -
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by MikeB »

I got mine from Farnell, but it is this one from Digikey: http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail ... ND/2187101.
Amphenol part number: 114-00841-68.

Mike.
erskyTx/er9x developer
The difficult we do immediately,
The impossible takes a little longer!
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

Thanks!

Just a question (perhaps, I'm just looking for perfection): may it be better to consider a push-push type of sockets, or do you believe these will give no benefits here? I don't know how you plan to position the socket and whether you want the card to be accessible from the battery compartment or not. In my opinion, if the card is accessible - the push-push socket could probably be a bit more convenient. Otherwise, push-pull will do just fine.
User avatar
Henning
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:28 am
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by Henning »

Hello together,

coming back to the discussion about the placement of the "Due" board in the 9X transmitter...

I would strongly prefer to have it placed _directly_ onto the 9X main board, as JHSA already proposed. Not only because of less wiring compared to the solution in the transmitters back cover - but also because my own transmitter based on HK's "9XR spare PCB" does'nt have any other PCB besides the main board ;-)
(see https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j0prkonp8vi2 ... ZY3oa?dl=0).

Perhaps the DUE controller would also give "9X-DUE" users the chance to participate in the advanced telemetry concept, which is on Kilrah's workbench?

How is the idea to come to a decision here? Or should both concepts be followed up with different PCBs routed then?

Regards,
Henning
andrewju
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:29 am
Country: Russian Federation
Location: Moscow

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by andrewju »

I was looking at the possible STM32F205 MCU options:

STM32F205RBT6 : 128k FLASH, 64k RAM
STM32F205RET6 : 512k FLASH, 128k RAM

These seem to be quite different! Surprisingly, the price list of one of the local suppliers shows the more powerful F205RE (~$6) is cheaper than the F205RB (~$10). Both are LQFP64.

Will we have to use a specific MCU model, or are these basically interchangeable?
User avatar
jhsa
Posts: 19480
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:13 pm
Country: Germany

Re: Arduino Due add on to 9X

Post by jhsa »

I think we should use the most powerful obviously ;) :D

João
My er9x/Ersky9x/eepskye Video Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5uJhoD7sAKidZmkhMpYpp_qcuIqJXhb9

Donate to Er9x/Ersky9x:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YHX43JR3J7XGW

Post Reply

Return to “er9x”